• Posted 12/19/2024.
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    I am still waiting on my developer to finish up on the Classifieds Control Panel so I can use it to encourage members into becoming paying members. Google Adsense has become a real burden on the viewing of this site, but honestly it is the ONLY source of income now that keeps it afloat. I tried offering disabling the ads being viewed by paying members, but apparently that is not enough incentive. Quite frankly, Google Adsense has dropped down to where it barely brings in enough daily to match even a single paid member per day. But it still gets the bills paid. But at what cost?

    So even without the classifieds control panel being complete, I believe I am going to have to disable those Google ads completely and likely disable some options here that have been free since going to the new platform. Like classified ad bumping, member name changes, and anything else I can use to encourage this site to be supported by the members instead of the Google Adsense ads.

    But there is risk involved. I will not pay out of pocket for very long during this last ditch experimental effort. If I find that the membership does not want to support this site with memberships, then I cannot support your being able to post your classified ads here for free. No, I am not intending to start charging for your posting ads here. I will just shut the site down and that will be it. I will be done with FaunaClassifieds. I certainly don't need this, and can live the rest of my life just fine without it. If I see that no one else really wants it to survive neither, then so be it. It goes away and you all can just go elsewhere to advertise your animals and merchandise.

    Not sure when this will take place, and I don't intend to give any further warning concerning the disabling of the Google Adsense. Just as there probably won't be any warning if I decide to close down this site. You will just come here and there will be some sort of message that the site is gone, and you have a nice day.

    I have been trying to make a go of this site for a very long time. And quite frankly, I am just tired of trying. I had hoped that enough people would be willing to help me help you all have a free outlet to offer your stuff for sale. But every year I see less and less people coming to this site, much less supporting it financially. That is fine. I tried. I retired the SerpenCo business about 14 years ago, so retiring out of this business completely is not that big if a step for me, nor will it be especially painful to do. When I was in Thailand, I did not check in here for three weeks. I didn't miss it even a little bit. So if you all want it to remain, it will be in your hands. I really don't care either way.

    =====================
    Some people have indicated that finding the method to contribute is rather difficult. And I have to admit, that it is not all that obvious. So to help, here is a thread to help as a quide. How to become a contributing member of FaunaClassifieds.

    And for the record, I will be shutting down the Google Adsense ads on January 1, 2025.
  • Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

The Purpose of Good & Bad Guy Posts?

D

Dennis Gulla

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I have seen a few threads over the past couple of weeks regarding "good guys" and "bad guys" and how each of us interpret them so differently. What is the collective goal of the B.O.I.? Obviously, I have my own opinion, but what is everyone else's? In an effort not to taint or derail the subject line of someone's new or existing post/thread I am going to open this discussion here.

I believe the B.O.I. is an open forum for all of us to inquire, investigate, warn and praise fellow herp breeders, brokers and buyers. This site that Rich has created has become an invaluable tool! I don't know how I ever got along without it! I have met and carried on conversations with people that I would have never ecountered if it not for the B.O.I. I also believe that this site has created more continuity among herpers and it has become more of a community than an industry.

With that being said, we as a "community" have a responsibility of educating the public, helping novices along and policing ourselves for the betterment of our love for reptiles. We won't get a second chance if someone has a miserable first impression at buying reptiles online or at a show. It's up to us to see that this hobby/business continues to propagate in a postive manner.

Now, this brings me back to the title of this post. What is the purpose of "good guy" and "bad guy" posts? Secondly, since I believe that everyone can agree with what a "good guy" is, what is YOUR definition of a "bad guy?"

My definition of a "bad guy" is not when someone delays a delivery of an animal. Not someone who is hard to communicate with. Not someone that sent you a short order, but made good on it. My definition of a "bad guy" is when this company or individual has been caught lieing repeatedly! A person or company that has a history of selling sick and dieing animals. A person or company that is only in it for the money. A person or business that holds customers money and won't refund it. A person that deliberately mis-represents animals. And let us assume that all of these examples are fact and have been proven, not heresay.

What is our responsibilty as a "community?"

In my opinion, if everything mentioned is fact, it is our responsiblity to dispose of these individuals! These people are a black eye on our whole industry. Everyone they rip off or screw over hurts all of us as a whole. This is where we need to come together! The "bad guys" certainly stick together, I can give several examples of this, but I won't. Those of us that continue to give these individuals chance after chance are doing nothing but perpetrating their actions. We are giving them more oportunities to prey on the novices which in turn extents their life of dishonesty! Keep in mind that scam artists are very manipulative and charming people. I remember watching an interview with Ted Bundy when he was still alive. The interviewer could not believe how charming this man was, "how could he have killed seventeen people?" Just an example!

Okay, I have rambled enough. Let's here your thoughts!
 
I think the BOI is an open forum for our use to check out potential buyers or sellers. It gives us the chance to determine with whom we are willing to do business when it is our money or animals at risk of being ripped off. It is a good thing as I see it, but sometimes we get carried away - which is not necessarily a bad thing just usually a lengthy thing. It was and is a great concept, to be able to check on online dealers before you buy. It has saved me a few buck here and there by preventing me from buying from known rip off artists. Had I checked it other times, it would have saved me money when good old whats her name down in Louisiana ripped off my money when I ordered some toads from her.

As to the definition of a bad guy, that differs from person to person, but I pretty much agree with what Dennis said on this when he gives his definition of a real bad guy. Of course a bad guy can also be someone who repeatedly is hard to get a hold of, someone who repeatedly sends short orders, or repeatedly fills orders that are not exactly as they were supposed to be, and so on. A bad guy can also be someone who send everything right, but is absolutely rude or obnoxious to deal with.

As to the purpose of the good guy / bad guy posts - that is simple: to promote business for the good guys, and to prevent business with the bad guys. The more we do that the more we help the herp business and herp hobby.

Best regards,
Glenn
 
Everyone is going to have their own comfort level when doing a transaction. What are minor pet peeves to one person can and usually are major faults for another.

This is why I think it is essential when either posting for or against a company to keep your dialog very factual and as impersonal as possible. This allows others to see what exactly happened without the taint of emotion involved. This also goes for posting rebuttals and agreements to the original posts. I see so many times that people and companies kill themselves by their own posts when a calm explanation of the original issue would have ended the whole affair. Don't post if your riled up or upset. Let is sit overnight until your thinking clearly. Every person or company makes errors. It's how those errors are fixed (or at least attempted to be fixed) that set the good guys apart from the bad guys.
 
The BOI to me is a source of information on a persons past, present and possible future actions.

The person reading it will then take the information and HOPEFULLY make a somewhat informed decision on his current purchase plans.

If a person buys from a good or bad guy after reading about him or her and gets ripped......well that was their choice. We tried to help. And that is all we can do.

If a person buys from good or bad guy and gets a good transaction.... well that is also their perogative and we just tried to help.

Sometimes I think the BOI and iots participants get a little carried away. But it is still a very usefull research tool
 
I've given this some thought and I think I've got an answer that I can be satisfied with.

Before you decide on anything, good or bad or somewhere in between, consider the source of your information. Who is it that you are relying on to inform you about the person or company you are looking into?

For example, if Joe Nobody joins fauna on sept 10 and makes his first post that same day in support of someone who has had a long negative thread and then Joe Nobody disappears, or throws out how good his deal or deals have gone but provides no proof other than his "word", I am highly suspicious of him. NO FACTS, NO BELIEF.

The same holds true for some one who is saying bad things about someone. For a perfect example, look to the elite-upstate fiasco. While upstate has been around for a while, they, so far, cannot be trusted to tell the truth. On a side note I have heard a rumor, which I do lend some credence to, that they are REALLY trying to turn in around and become good guys. Time will tell on that one, maybe TopShelf will give them a go and let us know how it went. Upstate's ex-partner, elite,has also proven himself a liar. He came on guns a blazin, the perfect example of what I mean by someone newly signed up with a loud mouth and scant facts, and then slinked off. No facts that merit any weight, any real consideration. This is not a person or business in whom I would place any trust whatsoever.

Now on the other side of the coin is the good guy post. We see that all the time. A newbie often in the throws of ecstasy over their newly aquired pet, posts how great everything with the seller was, the communication, the shipping, the animal itself. I do give a little credence to this, not a lot but, only because this person has established no history here.

Some of us who have been reading and posting here have gotten to be known for how we think and speak. For example, I would trust anything Darin at Hillbilly Herps told me. Hands down. He has established himself as a trustworthy individual through his consistency and the time he's been here, not that long in years, but a great many posts that are in a similar vien. He doesn't flip flop with his ideals for business or his standards. That is true for many of the people here. Again, I have considered the source and made my decision based on what is known of that source.

A good guy, to me, is someone who will be honest throughout his dealings, not just with me but with everyone. Sure, if you haven't done many deals it's hard to be known for being good, but a few of those newbie posts saying how great you are adds up, makes you of a higher stature to all who see them time and again. After that it's up to you to maintain that status. We all have an animal go bad for no reason now and then, or a shipper who messes up or a mis-sexed animal. It's how you deal with these occurances that will cement your status as a good guy. There is no formula for it but, not flying off the handle and calling your buyer a liar and a thief are the start. They may well be liars or theives but, that has to be proven.

A bad guy, well, that's harder. A known bad guy, someone who REPEATEDLY does not sell healthy animals, who REPEATEDLY lies about the animals he sells, whether it is their sex or size or locality of origin, is not likely to change. If ten people have had bad dealings with the same person, chances are that person is bad. Consider the ten sources and make up your own mind.

Anyone who, right from the get go, starts laying blame for everything on someone else, is probably NOT a good guy. A bad buy accepts responsibility very rarely, if at all, and generally under pressure of an overwhelming nature. Such as gubitz.

A good guy will bend over to make the customer happy. ONCE, maybe twice. Then you have to consider the source of the problem, ie, the buyer, and treat each transaction as the situation warrants.

This is not an easy definition, as each transaction is unique but, there are some generalizations that carry over throughout and I think I've covered several of them here.

Wes Pollock
 
Sometimes the person that posts a good guy post is obviously a newbie buying his first herp. They might even confuse a lethargic sick animal with an animal that has a calm disposition. They then jump and post a good guy thread only to come a few weeks later stating the animal died or has never eaten for him.

With regards to idividuals that buy from others with a history of bad transactions I believe we can divide them in two categories. If the buyer is also a dealer then he is damaging his own reputation by advertising that he bought from "Shady Herpes". Not a good marketing strategy. It's a different story if the buyer is a hobbyist that buys a pet for his own. He takes the risk and if something goes wrong he is not perpetuating sick animals to second hand buyers.

Kindly,

Daniel
 
Hmmm..

"If the buyer is also a dealer then he is damaging his own reputation by advertising that he bought from "Shady Herpes "

Now that's DEFINITELY someone to stay away from!!!

Erin B.
 
Good guy/Bad Guy

I think everyone has covered many of my responses and I agree. Repeating the same mistakes or continually doing"bad business" makes a "bad guy". Even companies/persons that 90% of the time conduct good business can have complaints. Sometimes it's can even be the customer. I've seen some people that seem to be unhappy with anyone they buy from. Inexperienced customers can also kill a perfectly good animal quickly. I think it's the responsibility of the seller to also make sure the buyer knows how to take care of the specimen or has the experience. I have turned down sales to people who I feel cannot provide proper care. I.E. "I'd like an Alligator can you tell me what they eat, how big they get and can I keep him in a 10 gallon with my water dragon?" I politely respond and refuse the sale. A "good guy" is the person who can handle problems professionally when a problem comes up. A "good guy" is a person who will honor a problem when the "warranty" expires. If I know a person and feel they are competent.... I will replace the specimen. However, you have to draw a line somewhere. The "bad guys" well a couple of posts and I might still consider doing business...It happens. Depends on how it is handled? Circumstances? Others...No way! Another consideration....I've seen it mentioned that if someone does business with a known "bad guy" they are bad too "so to speak". I don't agree.. I have a couple of people that purchase from us that don't seem to be able to provide customer "care" for their clients. We don't buy from them. They are always good about paying. (Maybe they have burned their other bridges?)(I'm not naming "names".) I think each person/company should be judged on their own merits. It's business. Sometimes there is a reason for the association. (Money owed etc.) Also, I try not to post until i've pursued all
avenues to satisfy the account. Yes, I agree with the "company you keep" idealism but, there are exceptions. Anyway... I think the BOI is important for both areas. It does however, get out of hand a bit. Keep it professional and to the point with "facts" and it will always do well! Thanks Ray G. HBR
 
Quite simply put, I find the BOI a learning tool.
For me, I learn what to do and not to do if I ever decide to sell animals.
I have learned many things. I now check out everyone I am going to buy from. I weed out the people who have not done business with the person (although I do acknowledge what they have to say). Now if I see someone has had a bad deal I talk to them personally since the computer can not what a voice can. I take into account the amount of good guy vs. bad guy posts and the fact that not everyone posts on the BOI, those are all considerations to me.
Everyone learns different things. For me personally, I would never buy a WC again. Not just because of my own experience but because I see a lot of bad guy threads and problems with WC vs. CB.
Some may agree with me, some not. All in all, as long as the BOI teaches and puts out the info that people need to make a decision it is well worth it.
The BOI has been a valuable learning tool for me.
I know who to watch out for and question. Or better yet, I have learned that one must be cautious with everyone, as good guys turn bad and bad guys can turn good, perhaps just inexperienced themselves.
I have taken the stance that I will not post a good guy until I see the animal has eaten and pooped for me. I have not only done my homework on the care of animals I buy, but went for extra credit, found out what warning signs there are, example: what poop should look like. I will no longer look at an animal and post, I will examine and watch that animal, and keep in touch with the seller only if there is something wrong, to see what the seller does.
Anyway, I know I have learned a lot from this site.
 
Several good points have been made in this thread, and I'll not try to belabor them. Instead, let me just say the following:

A "bad guy" is someone who is intentionally doing wrong (no matter how insignificant the "wrong" may be -- If he'll cheat for $5, you better believe he will for $5000!), or is intentionally not doing what's right. To me, acts of omission are no better than acts of commission!

However, not all non-bad guys are true "good guys," either. Some non-bad guys are simply untested. Almost anyone can hatch out a clutch of corns, get them to eat live pinks, and then ship them overnight to you doorstep.

True "good guys," in my opinion, are those who give the extra attention to detail when shipping. They are the ones that make sure the buyer is actually capable to caring for their new charges, before they send the animals, not to alleviate future possible headaches (though it helps that too), but also to make certain that "his kids" don't get sent somewhere that they'll have to be mistreated. True "good guys" are those who stand up for the rights of others when they have been mistreated by one of the bad guys. We are a community in this business, and if we fail to keep that communal spirit alive, the bad guys and the bureaucrats will ruin it for us all! True "good guys" stand by their word, and can be trusted for it. You always know where you stand with a "good guy." True "good guys" are more than sellers of herps, they are mentors to be followed for anyone wanting to be a "good guy" some day.

As to the "if you deal with a bad guy, you're a bad guy" idea, I disagree that one reality necessarily follows the other. I mean, sometimes, you can give a previously proven bad guy a break to see if he's turned it around or not. However, I'm sure most of us have told newer people that they shouldn't buy snakes from this chain pet store or that one, because to do so only propigates the suffering of other reptiles and the cheating of other customers. I see no difference in that, and telling people here that they should consider who and what they are sponsoring and encouraging with their internet orders.
 
Good Point

Darin made a good point! A "good guy" does more than just sell good animals. ..."he stands up for others".... My feeling about "good guys"....Their the ones you call when you aren't buying anything just to "shoot the breeze", and see what's new! Thanks Ray G. HBR
 
Yeppers, to me good guys, go that extra mile. Why? Because they really care about their animals! They care about all animals out there. They go that extra mile. CMC who I bought from wrote me two weeks later just to ask how the snakes were doing. I was surprised and very happy they cared so much to do that.
 
Stardust said, "I have learned that one must be cautious with everyone, as good guys turn bad and bad guys can turn good, perhaps just inexperienced themselves."

Stardust, can you or anyone else give me an example of a "bad guy" that turned "good?" I don't mean to be picky, I really would like to know. I have been on this board a long time, when it was Herpwantads.com and I can't remember "seeing" any "bad guy" that turned good. Not that it can't happen, but something "I personally" find hard to believe. I hate to be so cynical, I guess that's just how I veiw things.

All good posts by the way!
 
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