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The truth about Blue tegus!!

varnyard said:
http://thetegu.com/postx5203-0-0.html

So you agree it was a small group of animals?
Click to expand...

I have always agreed that the original 'blues' that Ron obtained where limited in number. I think I recall Ron saying it was a dozen, a small quantity. You claim it was six. I have heard people say from 6 to 12. I have no idea exactly how many he originally obtained.

Rick
 
Bobby, you state that blue tegus are T.merianae. Now why are blue tegus born almost black without the typical green head of all other known regional T.merianae?

Let's take this is a new direction, just for the sake of discussion...

What is the blue tegu IS the melanistic version of the T.merianae?

That would explain why, if blues are T.merianae, that they are born without the green heads. Just food for thought for anyone who is actually interested and open-minded. Now I am not saying this is fact, it's just a thought.

I am interested in other peoples feedback.

Rick
 
Well maybe they are nothing more than what Ron called them to start with, these few came from Colombia is what Ron claims, and he calls them Tupinambis teguixin. Tupinambis teguixin also do not have green heads as hatchlings.
 
varnyard said:
Well maybe they are nothing more than what Ron called them to start with, these few came from Colombia is what Ron claims, and he calls them Tupinambis teguixin. Tupinambis teguixin also do not have green heads as hatchlings.
Click to expand...

That would be hard since the scalation meristics are no where near T.teguixin.

The topic has the operatunity to actually go into the direction of constructive discussion. Anyone else interested in offering opinions or thoughts?

Rick
 
Have you done a scalation count on both of them? I mean both of them are smaller then the Argentines as well.
 
It could also be an inability inherant in only a small number of tegus, regaurdless of origin, to produce green pigment. That does not make them anything other than tegus that don't make green. Not albinos, not blues, not snows.

Yellow and green make blue. What if not all tegus make yellow?

I don't know enough about tegus.
 
varnyard said:
, also D3 cannot be used to substitued for UV lighting. Tegus require UV, there is no way around that due to the studies I have done.
Click to expand...


Bobby, could you please post here, or PM me, with your cites to your research? I've been trying to find conclusive evidence to whether dietary D3 can substitute for UV.
 
Thanks for the link Bobby.
There are foods for people that are supplemented with the D vitamins, milk, for instance.
I am not necessarily disagreeing with what you are saying but I would like some pointers to scientific studies showing that dietary D3 is not an adequate substitute for sunlight, rather than anecdotal evidence. I tried to research that myself but as far as research done with reptiles, I'm having a hard time finding proof, help me out here?
 
In almost every species raised for comercial purposes that I know of (poultry may be the closest to reptiles), vitamin D3 is substituted in the diet as they never have access to UV light. Needless to say poultry is among the most susceptible species to rickets. You will find more of the studies on these studiets performed in growing turkeys. One of the best sources for natural D3 is liver as it is where it is deposited. Feeding an animal whole prey (including the entrails) ensures suplementation with the vitamin. Feeding too much liver can also lead to excesses in vitamin D3 as well as vitamin A. To avoid rickets there there needs to be also an absorbable form of calcium, the best being dicalcium phosphate (also adds P) and not calcium carbonate (approx. 38% Ca only) which is very inexpensive and present in most dietary supplements.

Regards
 
All I can tell you is to do the studies yourself, as I have done. Take two baby tegus, give them both the same diet with D3 added, and give them both a basking bulb. But only give one a UV bulb 7.5 or higher. When the baby without the proper UV starts twitching with tremors, and stops eating, then you will have your proof. This is exactly what happen, why did this happen if D3 could be used as a substitute for UV? I will also add, I did not let the tegu die, I gave him proper UV and he went back to acting normal, the tremors stop and he went back to feeding.

As for turkeys and chickens, they do not bask that I know of, and tegus are not fowl. In my opinion that is a real far jump between the two.

The whole reason behind substituting D3 for UV was a ploy to sell albinos, knowing they could not stand the bright light. This way when they die a few weeks later without having the proper UV, it could be blamed on the new owner's care. Now you need to ask yourself, what did they do wrong? Nothing at all, they fell for the lie, hook, line and sinker.

Tegus are diurnal and do bask, the require UV lighting and D3 is not a short cut for the proper care of these animals.

And yes, albino reptiles that require bright lights are nothing but a cruel morph, and to make false claims just to sell them is nothing but the act of a scumbag. I do not agree with albinism in reptiles that require ultraviolet lighting, in my opinion this is nothing but the creation of a very cruel morph. Albinism is well known for being less tolerant to bright lights, it is torturing these animals to keep them alive. I do not have a problem with nocturnal animals, such as geckos, and snakes with the albino traits due to them lacking the need for lighting.
 
Thank you Dan for your explanation. I have an additional question: many people feed tegus with rodents, is the calcium present in the rodent skeleton adequate or is additional calcium supplementation needed? Is dicalcium phosphate available as a commercial supplement?
 
varnyard said:
All I can tell you is to do the studies yourself, as I have done. Take two baby tegus, give them both the same diet with D3 added, and give them both a basking bulb. But only give one a UV bulb 7.5 or higher. When the baby without the proper UV starts twitching with tremors, and stops eating, then you will have your proof. .
Click to expand...

Perhaps the dietary level was inadequate, I would think additional testing should be available?

I'm not saying you are wrong, but surely there must be scientific research explaining why dietary vitamins and those produced by the body in response to sunlight are different?
 
lucille said:
Perhaps the dietary level was inadequate, I would think additional testing should be available?

I'm not saying you are wrong, but surely there must be scientific research explaining why dietary vitamins and those produced by the body in response to sunlight are different?
Click to expand...

I would say that it kinda looks like trolling to me, you asked and I gave you the answers to the research. That was not good enough and you are now trying to make excuses for the proven facts. Tegus kept outside and fed one whole prey items once a week (Mice, Rats, Qual, Chickens, and Ducklings) do not need added calcium. I am not saying this is all they are fed, but rather one of the meals a week.

Tegus in natrual sunlight do not have tremors, the only way this might happen is from over heating.

Lucille, you told me you are getting a tegu, for god sake do not spend the extra money on proper care and UV lighting. Just let it die, then you will have your proof.
 
Bobby,

This attitude is unbecoming.

Your research, one experiment with two animals, and no documentation as to the level of dietary B you provided,, is inadequate to base a scientific theory on. Plus, there is nothing at all that explains my question, which is WHY the two vitamins, dietary and body made, are different.

I feel when someone in the forums is searching for deeper answers and perhaps has a scientific curiosity, snapping at them the way you just did to me is not appropriate.

I do not want to get into an argument, I want some answers to reasonable scientific questions. It is OK if you don't know, Bobby. But if you would provide pointers to someone who does, I'd appreciate it. I plan to investigate Dan's pointer to the chicken diets but as you pointed out, chickens are not lizards. If you have pointers, I'd appreciate them.
 
lucille said:
Bobby,

This attitude is unbecoming.

Your research, one experiment with two animals, and no documentation as to the level of dietary B you provided,, is inadequate to base a scientific theory on. Plus, there is nothing at all that explains my question, which is WHY the two vitamins, dietary and body made, are different.

I feel when someone in the forums is searching for deeper answers and perhaps has a scientific curiosity, snapping at them the way you just did to me is not appropriate.

I do not want to get into an argument, I want some answers to reasonable scientific questions. It is OK if you don't know, Bobby. But if you would provide pointers to someone who does, I'd appreciate it. I plan to investigate Dan's pointer to the chicken diets but as you pointed out, chickens are not lizards. If you have pointers, I'd appreciate them.
Click to expand...

Thats not what you want, and we both know it. UV lighting is proper care, it works, D3 does not. Why would you want to try to fix something that is not broken? I mean, if you really want to know, you have your answers.

But in my opinion, it just seems like you are nipping the heals again.
 
varnyard said:
Thats not what you want, and we both know it. UV lighting is proper care, it works, D3 does not. Why would you want to try to fix something that is not broken? I mean, if you really want to know, you have your answers.

But in my opinion, it just seems like you are nipping the heals again.
Click to expand...


I am not trying to fix anything, Bobby. I understand that UV needs to be used.I have no problem using methods that work.
I have a scientific curiousity about why the two are different. This goes beyond caresheet info, I'm wanting to know why one exceeds the other.

I do not understand your attitude toward reasonable questions.
 
Level of dietary B? No it is D3, and yes there have been many cases. Would you like for me to go through all of my emails where I have been contacted about tremors in tegus? Almost every one of them was adding multi-vitamins of one brand or another with D3 added. In every case the reason behind these tremors were no/poor UV, old UV bulbs, or temps being too hot. If you keep a baby without proper UV or no direct sunlight it will die, so it is not just one case, but in fact many cases.

I will also say this; an overdose of D3 can cause death in reptiles. This is another fact you are welcome to look up; there is no reason to take my word for it. I do not feed added D3 at all, IMO it is not worth the risks.
 
There is at least one, possibly more I don't recall the total at the moment, enzyme in the skin of reptiles that is stimulated by proper UVB be it provided by natural sunlight or a bulb.

Without this activation neither D3 nor Calcium be sythisized and used by the body.

It's as simple as that.
 
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