• Posted 12/19/2024.
    =====================

    I am still waiting on my developer to finish up on the Classifieds Control Panel so I can use it to encourage members into becoming paying members. Google Adsense has become a real burden on the viewing of this site, but honestly it is the ONLY source of income now that keeps it afloat. I tried offering disabling the ads being viewed by paying members, but apparently that is not enough incentive. Quite frankly, Google Adsense has dropped down to where it barely brings in enough daily to match even a single paid member per day. But it still gets the bills paid. But at what cost?

    So even without the classifieds control panel being complete, I believe I am going to have to disable those Google ads completely and likely disable some options here that have been free since going to the new platform. Like classified ad bumping, member name changes, and anything else I can use to encourage this site to be supported by the members instead of the Google Adsense ads.

    But there is risk involved. I will not pay out of pocket for very long during this last ditch experimental effort. If I find that the membership does not want to support this site with memberships, then I cannot support your being able to post your classified ads here for free. No, I am not intending to start charging for your posting ads here. I will just shut the site down and that will be it. I will be done with FaunaClassifieds. I certainly don't need this, and can live the rest of my life just fine without it. If I see that no one else really wants it to survive neither, then so be it. It goes away and you all can just go elsewhere to advertise your animals and merchandise.

    Not sure when this will take place, and I don't intend to give any further warning concerning the disabling of the Google Adsense. Just as there probably won't be any warning if I decide to close down this site. You will just come here and there will be some sort of message that the site is gone, and you have a nice day.

    I have been trying to make a go of this site for a very long time. And quite frankly, I am just tired of trying. I had hoped that enough people would be willing to help me help you all have a free outlet to offer your stuff for sale. But every year I see less and less people coming to this site, much less supporting it financially. That is fine. I tried. I retired the SerpenCo business about 14 years ago, so retiring out of this business completely is not that big if a step for me, nor will it be especially painful to do. When I was in Thailand, I did not check in here for three weeks. I didn't miss it even a little bit. So if you all want it to remain, it will be in your hands. I really don't care either way.

    =====================
    Some people have indicated that finding the method to contribute is rather difficult. And I have to admit, that it is not all that obvious. So to help, here is a thread to help as a quide. How to become a contributing member of FaunaClassifieds.

    And for the record, I will be shutting down the Google Adsense ads on January 1, 2025.
  • Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

To New Breeders thinking they are going to make Big $$$

BalloonzForU

BalloonzForU

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If you are just starting out and think you are going to make big bucks breeding Leos please think again. All the breeders here will tell you, that breaking even may be the only thing you may accomplish, if that.

It takes money and lots of it, to get to where you will even start to break even. Forget getting your initial investment back, just breaking even for feeders, eclectic bill, and vet bills is all you might do, unless you develop a new morph.

I think I can speak for most of the breeders on here, that we breed for the love of the animal. They are addictive and we love each and everyone of our pets. My little ones are pets FIRST, breeders second. It takes time to get to know the personality of each and every animal you have, which I believe is important so you know when they act different to investigate to see if they need special care, like a visit to the vet if needed or change in husbandry. I spend a lot of time with my Leos for only having 23. I get drawn in just watching them sometimes, and it takes more time then needed to care for them. But that's the joy they give back to me, so I'm not complaining at all.

In receiving that joy they give me they deserve the best care I can give or if needed care that my vet can give. I've spent well over $450 in the past month just on two Leos' in vet bills. Again I'm not complaining at all. I would gladly pay a lot more for the health and comfort of my pets. (I'm used to larger bills anyways. I spent $1,000 to have my cats ACL repaired two years ago.)

So in short, these guys don't cost too much to feed, and they will easily multiply for you, but when it comes to time and money needed for proper husbandry, and the cost of a higher electrice bill and vet bills, you won't make a living breeding these amazing little creatures. Please think before you breed.

This is not directed to any particular newbie in general. But if you think I'm talking about you, then maybe I am.
 
I'm glad someone finally posted that. I actually had a conversation with someone a week ago who was breeding this year, for the first time, and planned to charge $300 for one of his tang babies. I think if you want to breed for profit, you're going to have to become established before you start charging prices like that. I'm breeding this year for the first time as well, but I don't plan to do it for profit. I'm keeping whatever I can, then my friends have asked for a couple.

And I completely agree with the electric bill thing. Since I've had my kids, my bills have skyrocketed.
 
Felicia, That is a very good post! You must love what you are doing because that may be all you get out of it. The joy of doing something you love.
 
A friend and i have spend aroudn 500 with these little guys, and have probably gottsn about 60 back from it so far. I guess if you have an established colony of feeders and a good rack system and you are making about 20-30 100$ range geckos a season you maybe getting a profit, but i dont have to pay electric bills lol.
 
Thank you.

I'm not a long time breeder, this is my second year. But I did do the math before I got into the number of Leos I have now. I thought about the amount it would cost to feed them per month, the electric bill I already had and what it would be, how many hatchlings I could receive from breeding females(need space for them too). I did the math for my cost on the high end and income from selling offspring on the low end, then made sure I could afford to keep up with them financially. With all that said, I figured too what if I don't sell any? Then there are more mouths to feed, house and care for.

I think a lot of new breeders see what they paid for their new Leo and say wow if I can produce 12 of those from each female and I have 10 females then wow. But 9 out of 10 times you are not going to get the same price you paid for the parents out of the offspring, unless you are established and the morph price holds. New breeders think before you get in over your head. Again not to any person in general.
 
I think one of the biggest things that bothers me personally is when I see a post on a forum where someone hasn't even had a leo yet, and one of the first things they say is that they are going to breed them. (This happens quite often.) Some of those people have never even owned a reptile at all. I don't know why anyone would want to just jump into that. The only animals I've bred were mallard ducks and toads that we bred and released at a certain age into the wild on a NYS wildlife rehab grant when I was a kid, and that wasn't easy. I also always thought, like you said Felicia, that a majority of breeders were already gecko crazy before they started breeding, and just bred for the love of the animal, and to get more cuties. :)
 
on Ron Trempers website he states that the value decreases by 1/2 each year. His albinos started at 3000 a pair, not you can get them for 50 a pair. And RT can sell some of his geckos for triple what i can because hes Ron Tremper. So until your established you are selling at the bottom of the price range.
 
If you plan on breeding for profit you need to think long term. I invested in materials to build my own cages and equipment, knowing that long term the investment would save on space and the electric bill. People who try to get by cheaply when starting out sometimes find that it ends up costing $1 to save a nickel in the long run, not a good way to run a business. It is also a good idea to have some local business (pet stores) that want the offspring you produce and access to a reptile show to vend at. I make some extra cash selling a lot of other things besides geckos. If you are handy, building & selling cages can help you get some money to keep going. Having said all that, don't expect a profit for some time in the future.
 
Contrary to what most (people who don’t know us) would “think” after seeing our collection, money is absolutely the last thing on our mind. We have mountains of time and money wrapped up with these little guys and we don’t care. It’s such a fun hobby to be able to share with one another and we LOVE it. I’m also very happy I was able to help many of you with websites. It’s a great feeling taking on work that’s not only interesting, but a hobby you share with the person.

I agree, it is very hard to expect to make big profits. Like you said, when you add everything up you might just break even every season. That’s our plan. We’re hoping to make enough money so that they can essentially maintain themselves. Sell a handful here and that’s our feeders for a few months, sell some more there and that covers some new husbandry/supply things.

Any money we make goes into our “gecko bank account.” All of the money is untouched unless its gecko related like feeders, equipment, and vet bills. If there is still money left over after a season, we might use it to purchase a new project/group. If we would have a substantial amount saved after a few years, our plan is to use it to furnish an awesome gecko room when we go to buy a house.

This hobby IS very rewarding. It’s rewarding for they joy you get out of keeping the animals, the great people you get to meet and talk to, and the feeling you get when you have those first hatchlings every season. Money is very important for maintaining your collection, but to us profits just mean more money that can be invested into our geckos.
 
I am not going to lie. I do it all for the money. So i can buy more geckos LOL. As long as I can find them a good home and not lose too much doing so that is all I care about. The joy I get from seeing that baby straight out of the egg can't be measured by dollars. I enjoy Tangs the most because I like to watch the development of their colors and patterns.Also with Leos there are so many morphs and traits that you can go so many ways with. I love the saying "They are living art."
 
I'm just starting this year, and I can understand where the established breeders are coming from, I plan on breeding again next year....I figure I can keep my first few, pay for some of the leo incurred bills with other offspring and produce my own hybinos next year, to me that's cheaper than purchasing one outright, not to mention the thrill of watching them grow up, I love how they change so dramatically. And don't I know about the vet bills already! After 2 more stain tests, 3 are cleared completely...oddly enough they are all tangs. One of them the female I got from Xavier who has laid 3 eggs so far, I'm also planning on getting a male from Bro Paul that's a tang bell, he's specifically going to incubate a few eggs for me to pick from. I can't wait till they hatch!!!!!!!!!

I was origionally one who thought I could make a profit from breeding them, I feel bad about that as it is. But after losing 5 out of 8 to crypto, and reading posts from people in here, I've realized that the money's not worth it, the experiance is. I say that as I'm watching my gravid female, Aaliyah, dose in her laying box in her newly outfitted tank that will prolly grow with time, she's so spoiled.
 
Great post indeed. Last year I was fortunate to produce some very nice animals - one line is Redstripes, after spending over five grand on a few exceptional ones over the last few years. Even so, I'm selling offspring nicer than the parents for a fourth of what was paid last year and the year before and only a few are high ends. So often we see posts like " Let's see... if I spend a thousand dollars on a pair of XYZ and they produce ten babies, I'll sell the babies for $500 each and make $5,000 !" - In Dreamland. Try maybe one or two really nice ones if you're lucky. Then you'll want to keep the good ones and have to find good homes for the others, after you've cleaned and fed them for six months. The upside is that you do get to experience that kid in the candy store feeling but it comes with a price. And then there are the speedbumps; one goes off feed, a shipment gets lost, an infertile breeder, power failure. Have at it but take a good look at the competition. Kelli posts pics of stuff she's produced before you even thought to try that cross. You say to someone "I'd really like to produce some upside-down two-headed fork-tailed blizzards" or whatever. Yeah, Tremper's already got em. It can be fun, just don't bite off more mealworms than you can chew.
 
Great posts. I see it happen a lot, people buy a group of geckos from me (or another breeder), and within months they are for sale, in many cases before the geckos ever breed. Some people probably look at the prices of the leos the breeders sell, and think, "Wow, they are making tons of money from these geckos, I can do that!". Reality check! I'll give you an example of my average gecko related monthly expenses:

$600 on bugs
$150 on supplements
$70 on paper towels
$50 on misc. supplies (deli cups, masking tape, vermiculite, bug food etc)
$500 electricity

I am positive there are expenses I am forgetting right now, those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. Obviously I am not making a killing on leos. I am not going to lie and say I don't make a living as a reptile breeder, I do. It's enough to support my family (along with the salary my husband brings home from the zoo). It took me years and years to make any real profit though. I work with reptiles because I like the animals, not for money. I could very easily get a "real" job and make many thousands of dollars more annually. Of course if I had a full time job there is no way I could have the collection I do, and that is something I am not quite ready to give up LOL. I like having hundreds of leos to care for. I thrive on staying up most of the night working my collection! I love it.

The ones that are only in this for a quick buck never last. I've seen them come and (thankfully) go over the years. One has to have a true love and respect for these animals and herpetoculture in order to last in this hobby/business. One also has to have a certain, shall we say, talent for it. There are so many up and coming breeders I have so much respect for, and also many that have been around as long and longer than I have. They obviously have a true love for it, and a "knack" for it also.
 
I love my geckos. That said, I am still quite into the red as far as profits and losses. I can honestly say that after the few years I have into this great hobby, I have not profitted a single nickle as of yet. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Sorry Marcia but it's still there. I hope to make a small profit this season. I won't count my eggs before they hatch though. LOL
 
$600 for feeders? Kelli, you really need to start breeding roaches... :IThankYou
I don't have a feeder bill since I started breeding roaches and silkworms (except when I pick up some waxworms or mealworms at a show). Crap, I even make $$ on the extra feeders. Although it does take time to mess with the feeders and such. Come to think of it, because of the :censored: season I had last year, I made most of my money on feeders and cages. DOH.
 
I'm just addicted...if we're being honest here. LOL I have no idea if I'm in the red or the black. When people are dealing with an addiction they don't think straight or make wise decisions. **laughs...kinda** I'm sorta kidding about the addiction part, but not really. I do try to keep track of things and I spend way too much time planning, dreams, cleaning, feeding, picture taking, and forum/site surfing. I can't really imagine ever seeing a real profit (from my perspective) because there is always something more to do (vend at another show, start a new project, build better racks, improve website, advertise...and on and on). I amazed at how quickly any money made goes back into the hobby...if you want to progress, that is. It will be a long time until I break even...if ever (that's not even counting my time). I have a full time career that keeps me plenty busy, so I'm trying to find that fine line between having fun/success with a big collection and over-doing it. I think I'm dangerously close to over-doing it this year...but we'll see. There are only so many hours in the day...and night.

Also, I should say that it's just plain old fun and keeps me from burning out sometimes! Working with geckos is a major "de-stressor" for me. I do it because I'm addicted...always have been. I tried to "get out of geckos" about three times about 5 or 6 years ago. Yah, right. Everyone thought I might stop when I had children...nope (probably got worse!)

Finally, let me say that I sure hope I make a huge profit one day! Wouldn't we all love to make a good living working with reptiles. It's fun to think about at least. Good times:)
 
Leopard geckos are always changing, you get a brand new morph one season, its old the next. And i think the only to make a profit right away is to but 1.2 normals as babies for like 100 and waiting a year. Then house them all together and incubate for all females and keep all the females together in tubs(like tremper does)and sell them before they need to be separated. Maybe have a small rack. I couldn't imagine 600 in feeders though, lol.
 
hill4803 said:
$600 for feeders? Kelli, you really need to start breeding roaches... :IThankYou
I don't have a feeder bill since I started breeding roaches and silkworms (except when I pick up some waxworms or mealworms at a show). Crap, I even make $$ on the extra feeders. Although it does take time to mess with the feeders and such. Come to think of it, because of the :censored: season I had last year, I made most of my money on feeders and cages. DOH.
Click to expand...
I think when you have to feed off hundreds of thousands of feeders this may not be possible too much work.
 
$600 for feeders? Kelli, you really need to start breeding roaches...
Click to expand...

Oh I have two HUGE discoid roach colonies here. They actually kinda gross me out though, I hate it when they flap their wings, yuck! I also have numerous mealworm colonies going at all times. I used to breed the majority of my feeders but as my collection grew I found I was spending a lot of time messing with bug colonies and that was time better spent messing with my geckos ;-) It's worth it to me to buy what I need every week (reptilefood.com gets $150 from me most weeks!).

I couldn't imagine 600 in feeders though, lol
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Yeah I am sure that is a bit hard to imagine, just like imagining having 400+ geckos to feed at any given time of the year :) I have a lot of leos to feed, I go through 20,000-30,000 mealies, 1000 superworms, 1000-2000 crickets and 500 waxworms. Weekly. That doesn't include the twice a month 125 pinky mice I buy. I guess this might explain why my geckos are so chubby and grow so fast. :hehe:
 
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