Tom Chiang

[Sybella]

I need to vent guys...I'm so angry!!

I had been talking to Tom Chiang about a female '01 ghost corn since Monday. (I had responded to an add he put up for her.) We talked Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday and had come to an arrangement that I would by the snake for $80 and he would have Federal Express bill me for the shipping. I didn't quite understand about being billed by FedEx, as usually shipping is prepaid. I told him I had to take a Gray Banded King to the vet and I'd get back to him. This was the day before yesterday, on the 17th.

Yesterday was a horrible day...I had ever intention to write him back then but couldn't. I wrote him today, the 19th, to make the payment so he could mail the snake to me on Monday for a Tuesday delivery. He wrote me back saying that the snake was sold.

When he told me she was gone, this was my response:

Am I understanding this correctly?? We talked about this for days, you said I could have her for $80 plus shipping...then you suddenly sell her to someone else? I really wanted, and NEEEDED, her. I hope I've misunderstood because I'm furious!

And, his reply:

yes, i said u can have the snake for $80 as long as u pay for shipping and that was our last correspondence on the 17th. that was 3 days ago and i haven't heard anything from u since until now. was i suppose hold the snake for u indefinitely until "you check in with me later?" tom

I just wrote him back again. Here is what I said:

I had every intention of getting back to you yesterday Tom, but I had a hellish day. I'm sorry you have had such bad luck with people promising to pay and then flaking, but I am not one of those people. I told you I would get back to you and here I am; a day later than expected but here I am. By the way, from the 17th to the 19th is exactly 2 days, not three. Here's how lovely yesterday was....

A girl in sent me a male Anery Corn but instead of sending it UPS she sent it regular mail. I expected to get a package but instead got a letter from the federal inspectors informing me that the package had been intercepted, that it was a federal crime to send snakes through the US mail. I was worried sick about the health of the snake because it was nearly 100 degrees and I knew he was without water.

After spending half the day on the phone trying to get ahold of the Inspector who was on the case, I talked to him and I was finally able to pick up the snake from the SPCA at 5:30-6:00. (At which point I found out that he had escaped in the mail truck the day before and the mail carrier contacted the authorities. He was so flipped out about a possible venomous snake in his truck that he nearly peed his pants.)

Then, after getting that mess taken care of, I got home and wanted to give this poor Gray Band his once-a-day antibiotic shot. I then realized that the needles the pharmacy had given me were too short to go through the rubber stopper on the end of the vial! I drove to other pharmacies, as mine was now closed, trying to get more needles and of course no one would help me. And, before you go thinking this snake is sick because of me, I want you to know that he was given to me because he was already in poor shape and I offered to doctor him up. He was a free snake that turned into a $94.50 snake 4 days after he got here.

Now I realize that my problems are not your problems but my gosh...I spent days talking to you, getting to know you so that we could both feel comfortable making a deal. I don't want to get snakes from any old lame guy on the corner and I'm sure you want to make sure they go to a good home too. I prefer to develop a relationship with those I buy from and I do continue that relationship well after the purchase. I consider every one that I make transactions with as my friends.

It would have been courteous had I received a brief note explaining that you had another buyer if I was no longer interested...Not tell me I could have her and then say she's gone. I've bought nearly $1500 worth of reptiles online in the last few months and never once has someone treated me this poorly.

--------------

Wheew! Thanks for hearing me vent...has anyone else had any trouble with this guy??

 

[Sybella]

I did a search and found that Tom is a forum member here under the ID "Johnny." I didn't find a single negative comment about him here. Aside from this incident, all the conversations I had with him had been pleasant.

This is the first time I've complained about a fellow herper. Usually, I either don't have any problems, or I shrug things off. I've been having trouble finding corns I like of good size that are reasonably priced. I really wanted this snake and told him so. It's not like me to post what I did above and I probably wouldn't have if I wasn't so angered by the situation.

I'd rather start fresh with Tom, and put this behind us. Had the shoe been on the other foot, I might have suspected the same thing if a seller didn't get back to me immediately, considering the experiences he has claimed to have.

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

Sybella,

I am sorry to hear of your problems you had with the snake and USPS. I can totally understand that you are angry at Tom for selling the animal but he is well within his rights to do so. You stated you would contact him back (you had been in contact every day up to that point) and then did not contact him back. As a seller myself I do not take anyone's word that they are going to purchase an animal. An animal is not sold until I have payment on it regardless if a person says they are going to buy it. If I had a nickel for everyone that told me "I will buy it, I will make payment in a few minutes" to only never hear from them again I would be very wealthy. Tom did what he felt he needed to do in this situation and he SHOULD NOT be chastised for it. It was you that could not make the contact back (regardless of the reason) and was your responsibility if you wanted to purchase the snake to make sure you made payment and not his to make sure you wanted it or were going to make payment. If someone tells me they want an animal I personally tell them I will not hold the animal without a deposit or payment and that the animal is still up for sale until I receive payment or deposit for it.

 

[bpc]

I'd have to agree w/ Rob. It sucks, but as Rob said if sellers had a nickle.......

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

I have to agree with the other posters Sybella. Better than half of "I'll get back to you"s and "I'll send payment tomorrow"s never materialize. If you want, lock it in before someone else does. Plain and simple. Until the payment is confirmed, the animal is not sold.

 

[GeckosbyDesign]

I also agree with Rob!!!

When we started selling on the internet, I would hold our geckos and wait and wait and wait. I also have held geckos with no deposit for thirty days and have had the buyer back out two days prior to purchase. I have learned a lot in a short time and we have changed our policies accordingly. In turn when I decide to make a purchase I am ready at that time while on the phone with the seller. If I do not commit and purchase then, I do not hold the seller responsible for selling the animal. In this day that is the way I feel it should be. I am sorry you lost a purchase and I am sure your intentions were legit, but it is hard to read people over the phone.
good luck,
Bruce Davis

 

[Darin Chappell]

Sybella,

Sorry to hear about you missing out on that deal, but I have to echo what the others have said about Tom's action. It was not something that I would consider to be irresponsible or unethical in any way.

Although someone ahead of me may have already touched on this (if so, I'm sorry to repititious!), let me explain why it's a bit of a big deal for a seller to hold an animal with no money. You see, it's more than just the inconvenience of having to wait on a sale. It's really the potential loss of actual sales for the purpose of holding on to a sale that likely will never materialize.

I breed corns too, and I have people call me for animals on a fairly regular basis. However, if someone says "I want that snake" and sends no money, but I hold it anyway, three things are very probably going to take place:

a) I will never hear from that person again

AND

b) I will turn away other potential real customers for the same animal(s), because they are on "hold" for the original "buyer" that will now never respond!

THEN

c) The real buyers I turned away will have already found what they were looking for by the time I determine that the false "buyer" is just yanking my chain!


So, it has become my practice (as a buyer or a seller) to never consider an animal to be "on hold" unless some money has changed hands. If someone wants to buy a snake from me using a downpayment, that's fine, but it is not refundable, should they back out of the deal. If they agree to the deal, but fail to pay me the balance on the snake, I'll probably wait a day or two past the agreed upon date of final payment (but I don't have to), and then the animal goes back up for sale at full price. The original "buyer's" deposit is in my poket to compensate me for my time and aggravation. If the same person comes to me and says, "OK, I'm really serious about buying that snake now!" I say, "OK, I'm really willing to sell it to you for full price!"

That probably seems jaded to you, and it may very well be . . . I don't know. That's just the way it hast to be in an industry where business is done over long distances, in various legal jurisdictions, with people with whom you have no real familiarity.

Hope this helps you to see things from Tom's perspective a little better. Good luck in finding your replacement snake!

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Sybella

Just a breif addition to my previous post. I do agree with you that an Email alerting you to the fact he had another buyer would have been the courteous thing to do. I would have done exactly that in the same situation. However, I would not have let a sale go by waiting for an answer.

 

[herpetological]

Sales

I'll just put my 2 cents in really quick....Sorry about the loss and bad day...However, over 50% of my e-mails are from people who are simply shopping....They never come through. Anyone with an internet business has had this happen. As others have already said...It's not sold until the funds arrive or are confirmed. If some one tells me they definately want an animal i'll hold it for 24 hours. If I do not hear back from them then it's still available. If it took a person 3 days to go through with a deal I would consider that the person was not serious. Also, it would depend if it was a known customer who has a history with our company. Thanks Ray Goushaw www.herpbreedingresearch.com

 

[Sybella]

I totally understand, guys. Like I said in my post above, I might have suspected the same thing, had I been in Tom's shoes.

Thank you all for your tactful replies...it's very well received. I'm not going to say who did but someone contacted me in email about this to personally attack me and it has left a bad taste in my mouth. I will probably never do business with them in the future.

It's important to me that I get to know the buyer a little bit before I send them my money. I don't realy have it to spend, much less lose! Buyers are expected to blindly send hundreds of dollars off to people they don't know and it leaves the "seller" in a distinct advantage. I'm sure you can understand why I hesitated a bit.

99.9% of the time, I do do exactly what I say I'm going to do. This is why I give my time to personally get to know who I'm dealing with. I also tend to be a return customer because I'd rather deal with those I know than take a risk again. As a buyer, we don't really know that you have the snake or that you aren't going to take our money and run.

In addition, things are not instant over the internet and don't fall under the same rules as a store front. One cannot leave with their purchase immediately after laying out their cash. It's not too much to ask that the seller be completely honest and say they have another interest in the snake or contact you if another sale is pending.

Tom has apologized and offered to make things up to me in a future purchase. As I've already said, I hope to put this all behind us and continue a relationship with Tom.

I just tried to send him an email to apologize for losing my temper here but the message didn't send and I lost it! I have to retype it now! If I have any luck at all, it's got to bad!! LOL!

 

[Johnny]

My Reply

So the question is, should I post up a negative comment on every person who verbally commits to me in a deal and never comes through with the money? I think there's definitely a double standard here.

Tom Chiang, MD

 

[Sybella]

You're right...there probably is a double-standard there but that's one of the flaws of the buyer/seller relationship. The seller has the bigger responsibility. It's not a perfect system but the seller does have every advantage.

I was angry and needed to vent to those who would understand. As I said in the email, I regretted posting here as soon as I did it. I would have deleted it (and tried) but that option isn't available in this room. Again, I am sorry.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Sybella

No one is saying that your frustration does not have some legitamate basis. The problem is that those of us who have been selling online for some time know the rules of the game better than those who have made a few purchases. Do good sales get lost because of stringent policies the sellers adhere to? Of course they do. However, balancing this against the aggravation of taking animals off the market for extended periods of time due to wishy washy buyers who cannot commit (I am not in any way referring to you) makes it well worth setting up a set of parameters to work within. You seem like an honest and forthright individual that anyone on here would be pleased to do business with in the future. Hopefully this situation has been a learning experience with more positive overtones than negative.

Bottom line again is that if you want it....lock it in.

 

[sir-pent]

No problem here!

I have dealt with Tom in the past and our transactions have been problem-free.

Good luck

Landon Johnson

 

[Sybella]

Mr. Schmidt,
That apology was for Tom...I felt he deserved it. I had sent him an email this morning, told him about this thread and apologized to him about it. He hasn't answered me privately yet (even though I told him I knew I had it coming if he wanted to chew me out LOL!), but since he followed my link to pop in here, I thought I'd apologize again.

Thank you for being able to see through my "temper tantrum" and saying this: "You seem like an honest and forthright individual that anyone on here would be pleased to do business with in the future." You have me pegged...I'm not usually such a pain in the butt.

Thank you for your comment, Landon.

 

[Johnny]

Hey Landon!#@!@

Hi Landon,

Thanks for the thumbs up!@!$ What's the story on the hognose/zonata swap?? Don't wanna post up the zonata and have another negative thread on me saying how I reneged on a swap deal. Hahahahaha....

btw, I just want to clarify things in the future. Unless I specifically say (either verbally commit or via e-mail) that I am HOLDING or SAVING a reptile for a potential buyer, I am NOT. For instance, if I say "u can have the snake for $80," I don't mean I am holding on to the snake for you until I get $80. I do mean, give me $80 and the snake is yours. Just wanted to apologize for any misunderstandings in this long drawn out thread. Thanks...

Tom Chiang

 

[herpetological]

Customer/Business Communication

Just a quick note....I have had customers tell me they wanted a certain animal but, they were respectful enough to tell me it would take a few days to get the funds. It was then up to me to decide if I wanted to hold the specimen, or tell them that it would continue to be up for sale until they sent funds. Most of the time they are sincere and come through. Sometimes I never hear a thing... at least if the customer is up front the business owner can make a decision. If the specimen is sold in the meantime a courtesy e-mail to the proposed buyer is in order. Thanks Ray Goushaw www.herpbreedingresearch.com

 

[Sybella]

Very nice business practices, Mr. Goushaw! I agree 100%.

I've purchased quite a few reptiles on line lately and usually once a seller tells me I can have the animal, that means all other offers will be or are rejected. Tom has clarified his terminology and I understand now, of course. There wont be confusion like this in the future.

In this case, it wasn't really that I didn't have the money for a few days. I still had a few questions and concerns but wanted her very much, as I desperately need a few reasonably priced 02 female corns! <G> Naturally, I'm always uncomfortable about sending money to strangers. Now that I know Tom has such a good history and I've gotten to know him a bit more, I wont be so paranoid next time.