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Update on Dave Lawson Situation

OK, I totally agree w/what everyone is stating here about wholesalers, but there are a couple things that haven't really been pointed out.  Dave DOES guarantee that, "All animals are feeding unless stated otherwise."  I'm not sure how a wholesaler can guarantee this, and I'm not sure how much he actually follows through on this, but he apparantly does.  Also, I thought before that the two involed in this had AGREED on a solution to this problem.  Did they not?  
I agree that most wholesalers can't put any kind of guarantee on their animals beyond live arrival, but it says right in Dave's terms that they are feeding.  Also, if there really was previously an agreement, why would it not be followed through on?  Why did he previously post that everything was taken care of and that they were all-square?
My .02, take it for what it is.
Lucas Denning
 
"Are feeding," and "guaranteed to feed" are two TOTALLY different things.  "Are feeding" tells me they have fed, period.  I would guess that most of the people reading this post have had animals that have gone off feed, especially ball pythons.  

I would really suggest that people who are not familiar with wholesale animals not buy them.  If you want a guarantee go to Petland, or ask the seller for one.  I would guess most sellers would be willing to SELL you whatever type of guarantee you want.  But you have to realize that animals sometimes die, and therefor giving guarantees costs money.  Those costs must be passed on to the customer.  That's why an Albino Burmese I sell to Petland costs them $100 and their customer $250 plus.

 And sending the animals off to a third party absolutely, w/o a doubt voids all warranties.

Brian Conley
 
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron....Jeff is correct! You should post the name of the slimeball that would sell baby balls in that kind of shape?? They don't get that way overnight??? Whomever sold them to you, knew "exactly" what he was selling you!! That really pushes my buttons! It's basically the same as the other thread where he got phone books instead of snakes...it's the same type of scam! Tell us who it was....if he had a 20-lot...he probably has more, and somebody else might get stuck, too....Neil </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now ont to Neil Gubitz, Before ,durring and after your first post you were in contact with Mr. Gubitz about this subject via e-mail, phone and in person (according to your wife) so do not sit here and say that he had nothing to do with this mess.Your wife said he was telling you what to do</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Ron, IF (and that is a BIG IF)what Dave says is true,and you were in contact with N.G.before your first post, you were used as a pawn, nothing more.
 
I know this is out of context with this post(at least hopefully), but can we please lose the Casey VS Neil battle out of this post.  It has already been mentioned by the Webslave that it be left out and here we see it again with your "pawn" comment.  

And since this is about Dave and Ron, let's leave it at that.  I do agree and somewhat disagree with your statement about "are feeding" and "guaranteed feeding" Brian.  The fact that they are feeding now doesn't mean they will feed after being shipped, although I would certainly hope they would.  But definitely, if they have been through other hands than just Ron's, any and ALL guarantees I think would be voided.  A seller can't even control the care of the animals once the buyer gets them, let alone the care they receive from someone the original buyer sold the animals to.
 
Casey...It wasn't until AFTER my first post that I heard about who it actually was! And, that information didn't even come from Ron!! It wasn't until after I heard who it was that I was contacted by Ron for my help....
Just for the record....even though I'm biased....I would certainly believe Ron's (and the OTHER person's) account first, before I'd believe any "spin" told by anyone else, to just TRY and save face!
It just makes me laugh that no matter what problems Dave has with anybody...it's NEVER his fault....it's ALWAYS "spun" to where it falls on the other guy! He's truly got a gift for turning a phrase! Dave....you should really go into politics....ya got what it takes! <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'> ....Neil
 
I would agree with the idea of leaving non-pertinent names out of this thread (and all others for that matter), but Casey raises a valid point that is related to this thread, in my mind.  IF it could be shown that one person used Ron (by directly asking him to post or by goading him into it) to attack Dave, that would definitely be needed information to assess Ron's claims.  We often question the motive of those posting on here, and I think that this would be no exception.

However, "Perry Mason-ish" ramblings aside, it seems to me that Ron voided all of his rights to claim loss from Dave when a third party was involved.  Regardless of what Dave's guarantees say or don't say, Ron cannot prove that the defect in the animals was Dave's fault, because a third set of husbandry practices have been introduced.  As such, whatever guarantee Dave had is now void, and Ron is not in a position to recieve any reimbursement, in my opinion.
 
And just for the record, I am not taking sides personally in this instance.  I wouldn't want anyone thinking that I was endorsing one side or the other.  However, the point that a thrid party was involved pretty much nullifies whatever guarantees there were between Dave and Ron.  
HOWEVER, I am still curious as to why Ron would say that he originally posted that everything was okay so Dave would make everything right.  That still hasn't been answered.  It could be a complete falsehood on Ron's part.  It could also be very true.  I just find it odd that even Dave called him a liar for posting everything was alright, yet it hasn't been mentioned by him whether or not he DID coerce Ron to lie about the condition of the animals.  Like I said, if that has been sorted out earlier in the thread and I missed it, I apologize, and please point it out to me.
 
Brian,
I admit that the "feeding unless otherwise stated" is an argueable point, and maybe it is not a "guarantee" per say, but I don't really agree that "feeding" means just that the animal has fed.  If that's true, then I could sell an adult ball python that I've had for a year and has never eatin for me as "feeding?"  Or, for a more related analagy...a wholesaler has an adult ball python for 2 weeks, and it's never eatin for him and it looks obviously emaciated and about to die and obviously hasn't had a meal in a long while.  Is that animal "feeding?"
Also, I'll ask again.  Was there not an agreement reached by these two previously?  I thought they settled up and everything.  I could be wrong.  
Lucas Denning
 
feeding = I have fed it at least 1 or two meals, seen no problems.

guaranteed feeding = I have been tossing this baby food for a month or more, and have never had a refusal unless in shed.

I don't know about the rest of you, but this seems like a logical policy (sorry, Vulcan side showing again)

other than this thought, I'm staying out of this one
 
lady chaos ,i dont even keep snakes but i think thats a great was to put it thumbs up,simple but to the point.
craig g
 
WOW this just totally pisses me off.  Isnt it funny as hell that Neil comes on here on the attack expecting answers to the SAME type of questions that he avoided in a hundred and something pages of B.S. last month??? I wasn't even going to post on this thread but this is a joke.  Neil persists on getting his jabs in on Dave whenever possible and is still not living by the same rules he puts on others.  Hey Neil, clean up your own backyard first, then MAYBE some people here will start taking your opinions seriously.
 
I just heard a nasty "rumor" (please remember it is a rumor). I heard that Neil has talked Ron into getting a attorney.Well Ron I hope that this is incorrect info,I would hate to see you spend money you do not have.
 
Dave...starting your own rumors again??? I haven't spoke to Ron in days and the last time I spoke to him, I told him to just let this go because it wasn't worth it! I did't mention word one about an attorney....what's he gonna get...you don't have anything??

This whole thing reminds me of the real scary movies where the audience knows what's going to happen and they keep yelling at the screen for them NOT to go in there!! But, they go in anyway, and as soon as they do....CURTAINS!!
I feel like the "audience" trying to get you people to see the light of day! If you don't want to listen, or don't care what I say....go do all the business you want....just don't come crying to me when you get burned!! And you WILL! Enjoy!! ....Neil
 
Dave, normally i try to give you the benefit of the doubt, as I used to do Neil, but learn from Neil's example.  He just couldnt stop getting jabs in whenever possible and you are doing the same thing. Stop with the arrogant cracks like "I'd hate to see you spend money you don't have."

Am I the only guy on this board that thinks all pompous(sp), arrogant, jack-offs who think they're above it all be thrown off??  I think that this board basically proved what type of people both Neil and Dave are.
 
[If you don't want to listen, or don't care what I say....go do all the business you want....just don't come crying to me when you get burned!! And you WILL! Enjoy!! ....Neil]

Whoa, I was sleeping all night so I must've missed the world stopping and Neil becoming the KNOW IT ALL GRAND POOBAH of the herp businesss.  Neil, last time I checked, lying and ignoring people who gave you money is not good business.  So keep your opinion of your business paractices and ethics to yourself.
 
DAVE AS FAR IS THE LAWYER THING I DONT KNOW WERE YOU GOT YOU SO CALLED INFO from I HAVE NOT TALKED TO NEIL IN DAYS.
YOU KNOW BY THE TIME THIS IS OVER WITH I HOPE PEOPLE SEE YOUR BUISNESS FOR WHAT IT IS . AND DAVE YOU WANTED TO KNOW HOW LONG I GUARNTEE MY ANIMAL I GIVE 1 WEEK THAT THEY ARE FEEDING AND HEALTHY. SO NEEDLESS TO SAY WHEN I SOLD THE STUFF I GOT FROM YOU I LOST A LOT OF MONEY. and dave in your garutee it saye all animals are guarented feeding wich is why i called in the first place on these snakes because none of them were feeding and Died .
 
i forgo to put myname in last post



             ronald allen
 
This is an interesting post…

From what I gather, between the dramas, is this amalgam is what I think happened:

-Following several, presumably profitable, deals with Dave, Ron decided on another deal.

-So Dave Lawson sold a lot of imported balls Ronald Allen for the purpose of making a profit from them (and yes it matters)

-Ronald sold some of the balls to some lady, who intern shipped them back (3rd domestic trip).

-Shortly thereafter all the balls started experiencing trouble, dying I suppose.

-Then Ron (and wife) and Dave discussed the problem, presumably several times and arrived at a partial replacement for the ones that had died, 3 I think.

-Ron posted that all had been taken care of, which he now says he lied about; this fact alone if hurting his credibility on the issue. It’s hard to understand why you would bow to that kind of pressure over the loss of a few balls.

-Presumably things get worse with the balls, more die etc.

-Further conversations, and missed conversations, between Ron and Dave have produced a hostile relationship; to a point that nothing is being rectified by Dave and he is blowing Ron off as a PITA.

-Now we have a long post about it all, and few facts seem clear.

In my opinion everyone involved probably has some fault in this situation. But Dave is selling know WC animals (surly at a fairly slim mark-up as I used to manage a secondary import business in VA Beach) to someone who will then use them to turn a profit. Dave’s guarantee is minimal and not very specific (but appropriate in his situation), but you dealt with him before and accepted it on face value. Now as soon as you sold those snakes off and shipped them, it’s now your guarantee that’s in place, not Dave’s. Everyone is taking a risk using reptiles to turn a profit, Dave accepts his from the importation, and you should accept yours as a “jobber”. I agree with a previous poster, if you want detailed guarantees with minimal risk, try farming out some CB balls, there’s plenty around.

BTW I can on this post because I was looking at a Dave Lawson ad, tough call now

Randy May
“Lyncheyez”
 
Neil and Ron,From what both of you have posted I will apologize.I did post that it was a rumor and it seems that it was incorrect so again I am sorry. Neil,you and I have had many dealings and to my knowlege you were always happy with what you got from me now you keep making remarks that I have burned most of the people I have sold to. Sir , if you have knowlege or proof that I have all these sour deals please post names.Ron's is the only bad post saying that I sell bad reptiles.Please feel free to correct me but please post proof not here say.
 
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