Venemoids disgust me

[Tang]

hey guys, i dont usually post here bc i dont own any hot herps, but i stopped in to read a few posts. I wanted to give my opinion on venemoids. the idea of removing the venom glands on a poisonous herp is unbelievable and sickening. in the first place, only experienced keepers should be keeping any animal with venom, and if u want to keep one, get the experience first, dont take the cheap way around and buy a venemoid. millions of years of evolution didnt give the snakes venom just so that some random jerk who wants a king cobra can own one buy getting its venom glands removed. u wouldnt buy a decorative sword without a blade, u wouldnt buy a gun without a barrel, so y get a snake with its glands removed? the snakes are great the way they are, as dangerous as they may be. if u cant handle them, then dont buy them, dont make the snake pay for it. and most ppl cant handle them and should not attempt to, but they should see them in a zoo or reptile park. i work somewhere where there are many venemous snakes from king cobras to banded egyptians, to aruba island rattlers to diamondbacks, to spitters, to gabbys and many many more. these snakes are all beautiful, and nature desigened them to be perfect at what they do. just because u can get the procedure done, doesnt mean u should. if you cant safely handle a venemous snake, then you shouldnt own one. end of story. well, thats my view, I hope that some ppl will take this to heart and try to stop this unnecessary procedure.

 

[hhmoore]

I think that you will not find many supporters of venomoids here.
I will say that your correlations (decorative sword without a blade, gun without a barrel) are interesting, but not particularly applicable unless the topic is decapitating the snake...they're just a little too extreme. A gun without a firing pin, a sword with a plastic or unsharpenable blade fit a little better. Other than that, I agree - if you don't have the skills required to keep a venomous snake...don't. It really is that simple

 

[Tim Cole]

Can't argue with that!

We agree. Another comparison might be someone that removes the claws from a pet "Bobcat"! In my opinion wild mammals do not make good pets and altering them dooms them for any chance of being returned to the wild. Of course this is coming from someone that keeps venomous snakes! LOL

It's easier to keep a venomous snake happy in a cage than a large mammal!

 

[Vinny D]

I agree 110% with Tim and Harald. I do not support venomoid surgeries at all. Like i have said many times. If your are going to have a venomous snake, it should be venomous. I can stress over and over again on this topic, but im not going to. It makes me sick when i go to a show and see some poor snake with it's head all F'd up. And i have seen it many of times. people are still going to make viods for years to come. That is taking away the snakes natural history "IT'S VENOM". And i think it is animal abuse. But since it's a snake and not a dog it's ok.

Vinny

 

[Robinsons]

I'm not a hot keeper but I agree. To me I feel it's the same as declawing a cat. I mean the domesticated ones. If you want an animal that won't scratch the curtains get fish. The cats should not be put throw surgery because you don't want your curtains ruined. If you don't want a venemous snake then don't buy one. Buy a corn or boa or python or any number of snakes that don't have venom. I think these people do it for the "cool" factor. So they can say they own a venemous snake but oops they often forget to mention they surgically removed the snakes natural form unless someone gets scared. It is WRONG!!! Sorry had t o give my own analogy.

Lorretta Robinson
Mom at the Robinson Zoo
2 Corn snakes * Mozart & Oak*
2 leopard Geckos * Blinky & Linky*
1 Yellow Belly Turtle * Harry*
1 Red eared Slider * Gunslinger*
1 Bearded Dragon * Stella*
1 Black Lab * Gwen*
1 Golden Retriever * Titan*
1 Black cat * Jade*
4 Humans * Derek, Lorretta, Michael & David*

 

[old guy]

comparing apples and oranges

to having cats declawed and venomoids. Number one reason for cats being declawed is the cat is an totally indoor pet and doesn't need the function of claws for hunting and the killing of food prey. The cat is in free roam mode of house and not wild. Your banter is not un-like PETA'S agenda on domestic cat. The venomoid issue is of several scenarios that include the machismo of having a venomous snake and not telling anybody it is venom-less and or ? I can't even think of why for another reason. It is STILL a caged animal in concept but by Peta's thought, so is the cat by not being wild free roaming............here is the way of thought / fact on domestic : domestic means altering wild to be domestic or become domestic and to fit or fit in human companionship in any form or manner and progress domestic by selective breeding to fit in as domestic pet by higher intelligent of and or human bonding. Domestic pets achieve being attentive to human contact in one form or manner and reciprocate back. Reptiles haven't quite got to that level yet. LOL !

I'm not a hot keeper but I agree. To me I feel it's the same as declawing a cat. I mean the domesticated ones. If you want an animal that won't scratch the curtains get fish. The cats should not be put throw surgery because you don't want your curtains ruined. If you don't want a venemous snake then don't buy one. Buy a corn or boa or python or any number of snakes that don't have venom. I think these people do it for the "cool" factor. So they can say they own a venemous snake but oops they often forget to mention they surgically removed the snakes natural form unless someone gets scared. It is WRONG!!! Sorry had t o give my own analogy.

Lorretta Robinson
Mom at the Robinson Zoo
2 Corn snakes * Mozart & Oak*
2 leopard Geckos * Blinky & Linky*
1 Yellow Belly Turtle * Harry*
1 Red eared Slider * Gunslinger*
1 Bearded Dragon * Stella*
1 Black Lab * Gwen*
1 Golden Retriever * Titan*
1 Black cat * Jade*
4 Humans * Derek, Lorretta, Michael & David*

 

[Robinsons]

But what happens when that cat gets out. Oh never mind the analagy has been lost my point was I don't agree with them and to say that I am PETA like
"Your banter is not un-like PETA'S agenda on domestic cat"
is insulting. I have seen what can happen when an animal is altered to please the owners taking away their natural ability to defend themselves it is sad. I didn't mean to start a debate on cats I just wanted to express my agreement against venemoids. sorry
Lorretta Robinson
Mom at the Robinson Zoo
2 Corn snakes * Mozart & Oak*
2 leopard Geckos * Blinky & Linky*
1 Yellow Belly Turtle * Harry*
1 Red eared Slider * Gunslinger*
1 Bearded Dragon * Stella*
1 Black Lab * Gwen*
1 Golden Retriever * Titan*
1 Black cat * Jade*
4 Humans * Derek, Lorretta, Michael & David*

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

YUP! Voids suck. Well the people who void them suck anyway.

 

[old guy]

I am not defending venomoids but

with the cat scenario, the altered cat is not suppose to " get out " and is totally indoors, Now I know some people have problems with that as well ! On defending, they still have teeth and while we lived in country and with no traffic and neighbors, we did let " altered " de-clawed cats out on occasions and being de-clawed didn't hamper them from catching small critters including mice, snakes ( unfortunately ) , moles, shrews and keep our playful Rottie at bay. Ever see a even de-clawed cat go up a tree ? I have. SO going with this, is there a reason for a cat to have the defense of claws ? Read on > If more of the general public would keep their cats indoors whether de-clawed or not, we wouldn't have the number one feral animal problem in this country which is indeed cats ! Oh, but that's another story huh ?

But what happens when that cat gets out. Oh never mind the analagy has been lost my point was I don't agree with them and to say that I am PETA like
"Your banter is not un-like PETA'S agenda on domestic cat"
is insulting. I have seen what can happen when an animal is altered to please the owners taking away their natural ability to defend themselves it is sad. I didn't mean to start a debate on cats I just wanted to express my agreement against venemoids. sorry
Lorretta Robinson
Mom at the Robinson Zoo
2 Corn snakes * Mozart & Oak*
2 leopard Geckos * Blinky & Linky*
1 Yellow Belly Turtle * Harry*
1 Red eared Slider * Gunslinger*
1 Bearded Dragon * Stella*
1 Black Lab * Gwen*
1 Golden Retriever * Titan*
1 Black cat * Jade*
4 Humans * Derek, Lorretta, Michael & David*

 

[rickyduckworth]

what's ironic is that america is all about circumcision though (3-1 ratio)

i think a lot of people are just jumping on the bandwagon because the sentiment among herpers is that it's bad.........i think it's dumb unless done properly and for a purpose such as education or whatever, but i don't think most really care as much as they say......that's why they command a higher price tag and sell quickly

 

[hhmoore]

what's ironic is that america is all about circumcision though (3-1 ratio)

well, if a large percentage of circumcisions were performed at home, under nonsterile conditions, and had a high infection/mortality rate, that statement might be applicable to the subject

i think a lot of people are just jumping on the bandwagon because the sentiment among herpers is that it's bad.........i think it's dumb unless done properly and for a purpose such as education or whatever, but i don't think most really care as much as they say......that's why they command a higher price tag and sell quickly

I definitely disagree with you. While there may be a few jumpers, most of the people that actually go to the trouble of speaking out against venomoids have very strong feelings on the subject. There are a lot of people that don't know or care about any of the issues, owning a void is a chance to have a cool snake that they don't think can kill them - THAT is why they sell quickly. As for the higher pricetag - factor in time, supplies, labor, and mortality...not to mention that people are paying for a safety net (that may or may not actually work).

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Exactly. And when one of the ductectomies isn't done properly, and the snake regenerates it's ducts, and envenomates it's owner because the owner is counting on the surgery being affective...............Than what? It's better to just learn to handle the snake properly and while INTACT. Keeping the owner full aware of the dangers involved.

It's a proven fact people let there guard down when handling voids. They are counting on the proceedure that was performed. Not even a void should be handled as a non venomous animal, but I've seen it done.

None of these proceedures can replace being well taught how to handle the snake properly, and safely in the first place, and practiceing it even with voids. They are dangerous simply because people assume the ducts and glands were properly removed, and get careless.


Rick

 

[Tim Cole]

For Example...

I just got a good deal on a adult albino atrox that was SUPPOSED to be a venomoid! Not!

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

I just got a good deal on a adult albino atrox that was SUPPOSED to be a venomoid! Not!

Well, better someone like you get it than someone else who may not have bothered to check. You just sharpened My point. But i'll not stick it in any deeper. LOL

Is there any eveidence the proceedure was done at all? Just curious.


Rick

 

[Tim Cole]

Evidence is there...

When milked one fang produced venom and one does not.

 

[hhmoore]

When milked one fang produced venom and one does not.

oops.
Or perhaps I should have shown dismay that something like that could happen...or accused you of being mistaken, because a devenomized rattlesnake doesn't & cannot have venom.
Hmmmmmmm.
Oh, I forgot - I KNOW it can happen, too. Guess I'll stick with my original oops. At least you got a good deal

 

[Junkyard]

Personally, I do not like being bit by any snake, venomous or not. The thought of having two inch fangs tag me instead of 4 millimeter fangs hit me is more then enough to keep me away from the "hots" and "not so hots". I guess my tolerance for pain is not as high as others. At least I know my snakes do not have the potential of killing me with one bite. Maybe I am not cool enough.

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Well, maybe you aren't cool enough.......... But you got some cool snakes. HA HA HA

 

[hhmoore]

If it's any consolation, Michael, I'm not nearly as cool as I used to be...

but I am smarter.

 

[Tim Cole]

Harold,

If it's any consolation, Michael, I'm not nearly as cool as I used to be...

but I am smarter.

You're starting to sound like Wes!