What causes bites?

[snakegetters]

Let's see if we can help each other improve our safety protocols by sharing about what circumstances are most likely to cause a bite or a scary close call.

These are the factors I hear about most often.

1. Trying to put the snake into a too-small container like a deli cup or a shallow Rubbermaid instead of bagging it or putting it in a larger, safer enclosure.

2. Wrong tool for the job. Hook or hemostats too short. Using cheap made-in-Taiwan knockoff tongs instead of the real thing from Midwest or ACE or Furmont. Picking up the wrong tool for the job because it's closer to the cage than the right tool. Using a broken tool or a tool that broke while being used.

3. Taking careless shortcuts. Stuff like removing waterbowls from a cage with your bare hand instead of going and getting the long tongs.

4. Being distracted while working with snakes. Talking on the phone, talking to another person in the room, etc.

5. Bad mental or emotional condition. You have the flu, you're extremely tired, you just broke up with your girlfriend/boyfriend, and you're working with the snakes anyways.

6. Drugs or alcohol. This would include prescription medication or over the counter meds like cold or flu pills.

7. Showing off. Doing stupid snake tricks to impress your friends.

8. Freehandling.

9. Freak circumstances. Nobody's fault really. Total accident. Couldn't have been prevented with any amount of foresight or increased safety protocols.

Share the story of your closest calls or bites and how they happened? You can choose more than one option if you've had more than one close call or bite.

 

[Mustangrde1]

I was the near victom of a heat seaking Bothrops atrox missle. The launching pad was a rubbermaid the animal launched itself out of. The warhead managed to pass between my body and arm. Must have been made outside the U.S.A. as it malfunctioned and did not hit the target. Bigger cage may have prevented the Launching of this rare missle. However do to budget cuts or over population in the country they were only able to afford Trimersaurus sized launch pads at the time. However the Minestry of the Military quickly decided to re-arm the animal in a proper sized launch pad shortly after its recovery.


I can laugh at it now but at the time it was no fun.

 

[StickyTongues]

I have been lucky so far. Most of my boas never tried to bite or hissed. There was one time when my 6ft het albino female nearly missed my little nephew when he walked by while I had her in her feeding tub. The lil guy wasn't even scared. Just pointed back at the snake and started laughing. LOL. That was me being careless. Shoulda remember to put a lid on that tub. I'm not a big collector or breeder so I have time to handle them atleast 4 times a week. I would say the biggest cause of snake bites are being being careless taking shortcuts and not paying ATTENTION!!!

Sam Leam

 

[Mustangrde1]

Secound close Call. I had to share this one as its about what many call a placid snake.

Bitis Gaboonica bitous in circlous: English translation very large Gaboon viper who turned inside itself for an attempted snack on my toe.

I was helping a friend clean cages and we had to get a rather large gabby out. Gabbys are not normally a bad animal but this one needed a snow shovel to move around. It also had a very nasty temper. I miss judged this animal and attempted to come from behind to scoop it up. To my suprise its fangs were inches from my boot before i could blink. Never again will i think of a gabby as a docile animal. of interest the gabby was stretched strait when i came up on it. It came over itself in a full turn to end up fangs ready at me. DO NOT EVER TRY TO PET THE GABOON. I never would try it to begin with but i have heard of people trying.

I think this is a good thread that we can both have fun with and learn from.

 

[snakegetters]

Yep, nonvenomous snake bites are likely to happen under pretty much the same circumstances, except that people tend to be a lot more casual with nonvenomous species. So we can get a lot of insight from working with nonvenomous snakes or talking to people who work with them.

I'd prefer if the poll be answered only by people who are handling their snakes in the way that venomous are normally handled, eg, taking significant precautions against not being bitten. Otherwise the results are going to be skewed. So if you have a horrible Amazon tree boa that you always handle with hooks and gloves, and you're bitten because you used a hook that was too short, that would be good data because a tree viper could have done the same thing under the same circumstances. If you have your ball python in your lap and it bites you, that isn't a circumstance that a venomous keeper is likely to be in so it's not relevant to us.

This is the venomous discussion forum and the poll is to benefit venomous keepers. I think we can get some good data from nasty non-vens, but only if the handling protocols being used are the same as for venomous.

 

[Double "D" Reptiles]

practice gone awry

We've considered for a couple of years about getting a small number of venomous once we get a more secure facility and are better equipped (both in terms of tools and training) to handle them. To this end, I've practiced HOT methods with a small number of our less predictable snakes during this period. God knows that the last thing I want is an envenomation, especially in our small town where we're already considered odd for keeping snakes and it would be nearly impossible to get cops or medical personnel to come inside where snakes and lizards are housed in case of an emergency.

Well, our best candidate has been the water python at 8'+ in size and a temperment that is unpredictable at best. Anyway, I went to get the water tub out and "was just certain" that she was well out of the way and wouldn't present any problems, so rather than "take the time" to set up the extra tubs (used for feeding and cleaning) and then grab the hook, I just reached in to get the water tub in a stupid shortcut mistake. She was "resting" on the other side of the cage, so "no problems." WRONG!!! I never registered that she'd struck, but everyone else in the room was shocked when I jumped backwards while she launched herseld a good 5+ and more out at me. Everyone was certain that the distance covered when she got hold of my trailing hand was well beyond a distance she should have been able to reach. Didn't matter to her and I was fortunate that all I ended up with as a nice set of puncture holes, torn skin on a tender part of the body and a goodly amount of blood from holes that stung like the devil to clean up afterwards.

Well, that set our timetable back more than I hate to think about for getting any venomous snakes. I had gone 2 1/2 years without a bite from anything other than baby corns and a couple of pernicious spotted pythons up to that point and thought that I was almost ready. Boy was I wrong.

To all of you who successfully keep venomous species without incident, I applaud you and your careful approach to handling. There are so many venomous species which are truly beautiful, especially when kept in naturalistic vivs and there are truly some of these which we'd love to keep. We're just not ready yet as my handful of errors with non-venomous have proven to me in the past. So, 1 year into my self-imposed time-frame (started over again) I continue forward with hopes and aspirations of one day being able to discuss care and handling with all of you as a novice peer and not a curious onlooker.

David

p.s. Almost forgot...prior to that stupid incident I'd done extremely well with the ATBs (both nasty little buggers) and Bloods (one nasty and one gentle.)

 

[Gregg M]

Hey Scott, isnt it amazing what a big fat slug of a snake can do???? It is mind blowing, how many people think gaboons are docile or tame...... They might be on the lazy side but that is their nature and it is also the reason why they a such amazing hunters..... They wait in one spot in the same stance for days on end...... While laying in wait for food they are not very quick to give them selves up by striking at the first thing moving their way...... They will wait until the very last inch and then the lightning fast strike comes..... Hey Scott, if that gaboon wanted you, it would have had you..... You should thank it for not sticking its fangs in you......LOL

Anyway, I had one very close call with a neonate gaboon...... It was just a few hours out of the female and I was relocating babies into their own enclosers..... I hooked the baby and she started to slip off the hook...... I went to grab her tiny little tail and as soon as she saw my hand she struck back on me...... I think the only reason she missed me was because of her lack of striking experiance...... Needless to say I have never attempted to tail a baby gaboon again.....
I would blame that close call on the fact that I was careless......

Carelessness is the main cause of snakebite in a private collection......

 

[Mustangrde1]

David.

Sounds like you have the makings of a very good hot keeper. You are not in any rush and wish to take your time. Those are the attributes that will keep you safe and make a good keeper.

Some advice, Use hoks and tongs and other proper tools on everything you own. Get to the point you feel nekkid without them in your hands or at hands reach away. When you feel comfortable with yourself and your abilities with them. That is when the biggest risk comes in. Many a bit has occured from complacancy<sp>.

There is never a time line or apporval of another that can tell you your ready. It is whats in your heart and mind and experiance that judges that ansd you are the only one who can judge that.

Ask any questions you may have I think most of us would be glad to help.

 

[snakekid13]

I've made some mistakes with handling my atb's normally caused by cleaning cages at night sick or tired etc. Well it was feeding day and i was being careless i was reaching in the cage since both appeared to be resting with their bodies hung over the branches boy was i wrong i reached in to pull the newspaper out of the bottom when i felt teeth sink into my hand. Mistake number 2: I had also not washed my hands after feeding my blood pythons so no im sitting their a 6 foot tree boa holding on to me starting to wrap around my arm obviously thinking it could eat me, i could feel the blood dripping down my hand pondering how the hell im going to get it off with out hurting him since they do have fairly long teeth and can get pulled out pretty easily luckily she decided to let go after figuring out i was a little to big to eat. So i think the main cause of being bit is working with them when not totally alert or if your sick.

 

[SCReptiles]

I think statistically most bites happen during or in relation to venom extractions. The second highest occurrence of bites is from bagging accidents. There are no hard core numbers on these things, but based on my experience, this is the breakdown. .

 

[snakegetters]

I think statistically most bites happen during or in relation to venom extractions. The second highest occurrence of bites is from bagging accidents. There are no hard core numbers on these things, but based on my experience, this is the breakdown. .

Venom extractors do tend to get bitten, some of them more often than others, but given the amount of hands-on work they do their safety record tends to be amazingly good.

Bagging accidents are a good thing to point out. I'd place most of them under the "container too small" category, since snakes tend to bounce back out and tag keepers. I had an interesting time of it when I miscalculated the size of the bag I would need to stuff a 12' king cobra into with nobody to help me. That stupid snake story is here: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39525

Or were you referring to somebody being unwise enough to handle the pillowcase too freely with their hands? Anybody who thinks a snake can't see to bite through a bag is invited to put a standard pillowcase over their own head and see how good the visibility actually is from in there. And of course a bit of cloth doesn't hamper pit vipers a bit; it's not just their eyes they're using to target you.

My guess is that a lot of snake bites are probably proceeded by words to the effect of, "Hey, y'all watch this" or "I bet I could do that." Most common victim profile in North America is a young male in his early 20's, intoxicated.

 

[snakegetters]

Secound close Call. I had to share this one as its about what many call a placid snake.

Bitis Gaboonica bitous in circlous: English translation very large Gaboon viper who turned inside itself for an attempted snack on my toe.

Bitis gabonica should be renamed Bitis urassus as a big red warning sign to keepers who think they're placid all the time. LOL I don't think the taxonomists would approve, but anyone who has seen an angry Gaboon turn into a pogo stick and swap ends all over the room would certainly agree.

http://snakegetters.com/demo/gaboons.html

 

[Mustangrde1]

Ok this is both a Fun and imfomative thread and i damn well know of a few people who frequent this board that need to spit out the close calls. It will help people to think twice. Now I would never name names but ummmm we could guess on who they are lol.

 

[Mustangrde1]

Oh I have got to bring this up. SPITTING COBRAS. Anyone thinking about keeping these Fire Hose's needs to take extra precautions such as full face shield with glasses under them. You could have a very nasty suprise otherwise. For some reason spitters get left out of many cobra conversations.

 

[snakegetters]

I like the light, inexpensive full face shields sold through Office Depot catalogs.

I walked in with some spitters while wearing only goggles, and walked back out looking like I'd been on the set of a bad porno movie. My chin was dripping, my hair was dripping, my goggles were crusted....you get the picture. Bukake city. LOL

I prefer not to work with spitters because any exposure to airborne venom can predispose you to allergy and subsequent anaphlylaxis. Bad scenario for a venomous keeper. If a spitter really needs veterinary help I'll go there, but I'd rather not handle them if I don't have to.

My preferred tactic with those guys is to funnel them into an isoflurane chamber or pipe iso directly into the cage so they can take a nice little nap while I am medicating them or pulling ticks or whatever. You can be the most skilled handler in the world, but if a spitter decides to put venom in the air anywhere near you, you're going to rack up an exposure. No escaping that, unless you can gas them down without actually disturbing them or handling them. If I had to keep spitters, I'd need to figure out a way to do routine cage maintenance without handling them at all. Not something I normally do; I really prefer going hands-on with my critters so that I can closely monitor their body condition and habituate them to handling.

I have an anecdotal report that the enzymatic contact lens cleaner fluid designed to break down proteins works very well as an eye wash for spitter venom. No hard medical data on this, but it does seem to make sense and there are two private reports on its use in this manner.

 

[psilocybe]

Here's one that really wasn't so much my fault, but had I been more aware of my surroundings, I might have avoided...

I was out in the desert herping, just walking around looking. I was focusing on finding C. atrox, but was keeping my eyes peeled for everything. Keep in mind I said I was specifically looking for C. atrox. Well, I'm walking around with my snake hook, muttering something to myself (i was kinda pissed about something else at the time, can't remember what) and all of a sudden I hear a rattle. Woohoo, I found a rattler! Now where is it? Oh, about 10 inches in front of me. And a four foot snake! I jumped backwards, and I swear the snake gave me a funny look. It didn't strike, just kept rattling. I got my wits about me, and posed the snake for a few photographs. Had it not rattled, me, the vigilant snake hunter I was, would have stepped right on it. Probably would have resulted in a rather nasty bite, considering the snake would have felt it's life was in immediate danger. And there I was. In the middle of the desert. About 3 miles from any houses or civilization. Alone. I did have a cell phone though, but no ambulance would have found me, I would have had to be choppered out.

Let's just say I definately watch where I step when I go herping these days.

 

[psilocybe]

Forgot to mention, the snake I found was an atrox...funny how I was looking for them, and found one, though not in a way I would have preferred!

 

[Hammer]

Stupid, stupid, stupid...

The other day I was soaking my atheris squamigera because she looked dehydrated. When I went to place her back in the enclosure, because she was wet, she slipped off the hook midway through the transfer. Without thinking (obviously!) I instinctively grabbed her in mid air (good reflexes). It took a milisecond to complete the transfer safely. After the door shut, the heart started pumping loudly and very fast. Fortunately it was an atheris for the simple reason they are not noted strikers; but not so good had she struck!

So I guess this is a real good example of plain stupidity.

 

[psilocybe]

Yeah, it's a REAL good thing she didn't strike...squams have caused fatalities and with no AV...ugh, not a good situation. Even if you survive the bite, you ain't gonna be lookin' very pretty afterword Glad you are man enough to own up to your mistake and share it with the rest of us...hopefully you learned from it as well!

 

[snakegetters]

If you get nailed by A. squamiger your best AV bet for cross reactivity is thought to be Echis, made by SAIMR.