What in the world is going on?

[Griz]

I received my very first warning for calling someone an idiot. With that warning came 10 points from Webslave. However, I also received a message via the forum that in order to access the forum I had to pay a $10 fine. In addition, my reputation points went from 5000+ down to -1000. My CP does not show that I have received ANY negative points from anyone so why all of a sudden the drop in my point score? Any clarification on the fine and points is appreciated.

Bob

 

[Chris@TSE]

No idea. I oo also had to pay a fine due to points received by good 'ol Dr. Owens regarding my signature area. I received points and the notification of the warning and had to pay the $10 before I could even see what I was warned for! And on top of it the warning itself read nothing more than the following...

"Dr Owens 10-18-2005 Improper signature use [ View Post] Please review the rules in the announcement. "

WHAT ANNOUNCEMENT?

I had to email Rich just to find out! Apparently there is a limit of four lines to the signature area. Of course anyone, Rich, or good ol' Dr. Ownens could have taken two or three brief seconds to let me know of this thread or statute..... and I would have happily fixed it. The same time it took to warn me and effectively rob me of $10 because i wish to keep acessing the site could have been used to send me a frijendly personal message.

Change is good, change is needed, but it must be done properly IMO.

I REALLY do not like the fact I had to pay $10 to view the warning in the first place and I REALLY do not like the fact that rather inform me of this information I was fined FIRST and warned later. Great, the thread containing the warning is everywhere. But guess what, i do not read minds, and it is NOT required reading.

If you want to place fines like this without warning perhaps you should send information regarding rules like this in the form of a mass message or mail so you KNOW all users receive it instead of assuming they have.

I did not know of the limit or I would not have gone over it.

I've said my peace. I even emailed rich regarding this matter and requested a refund of the $10 and retraction of the points. It was flat out denied, of course he offered to refund and give me back the suspension of course..

Oh well..... I'm sure things here will only get more interesting. Let the good times roll.....

 

[nicolai]

Webslave has instituted a new warning/point/fine/suspension system to the site. Depending on the seriousness of the violation you are given 1-10 points. upon recieving 10 points the system automatically suspends and fines you for the infraction. You will not be able to post again until the fine is paid and if you try to bypass the suspension and fine you will be given a much harsher penalty.
Minor infractions from what i understand such as off topic posting,ni signature to posts on the boi, off color remarks will only be given a point or 2. Name calling, volgarity, threats of any kind, abuse to any other member or a MOD, derogitory remarks, harrasment etc. will be given more points up to 10 points for the first offense.
So webslave is trying to say be curtious to others and treat them as you would wish to be treated or you will be dealt with accordingly.

 

[Griz]

And you found this information where? And my rep points? It shows my Karma as being red but yet when you put your mouse on it it states I am at 2500+ but my CP shows -999.

Griz

 

[critical bill]

Gone are the days of the wild wild west where some were untouchable like elliot ness.

 

[WebSlave]

There is an additional wrinkle that ALL need to be aware of. Yes, some minor infractions are only 1 pointers. But anyone who has 9 or more warning points already under their belt will trigger the automatic suspension if they get that minor 1 point warning. That was a decision I made on how to implement it. My feelings are that if you have a fair number of warnings under your belt already, then perhaps you just aren't keen on getting with the program here. You cannot say you have not been WARNED that some of your mannerisms are not appreciated nor wanted here. The additional points will be sterner raps across the knuckles to let you know that you need to change you ways or leave. Anyone who has been here long enough to get several warning points needs to pay more attention to the protocol around here.

On the other hand, someone who comes in here and their very first post is via name calling or other serious infractions, will get flipped out the door right away. Their ONLY warning will be from being escorted out the door. I don't think it should come as a surprise to anyone that such behavior is just not going to be tolerated.

I am darn serious about making a change here in the way people behave. There may be some innocent collateral damage in the process, but I have accepted that as an unfortunate byproduct. Yes, the wild west atmosphere is now over with.

 

[Chris@TSE]

" You cannot say you have not been WARNED that some of your mannerisms are not appreciated nor wanted here. "

Very true, but in my case I was NOT warned of this issue regarding signature area or atleast given a heads up to the thread or info. Had I been told of the four line limit I would have gladly edited it, instead I was issued a warning. I do not feel good 'ol Dr. Ownes should have done this, he could have taken a brief moment to drop me a line and alert me of the thread telling people of this. It may be linked to most forums, but unless someone read it they would not know. Again, I am no mind reader and my last warning resulted in a fine suspension I should not have had to pay. Not to mention if someone does get a warning or suspension they are unable to view what the warning was that tipped them over the limit and got them the fine in the first place. They have to pay to even view the warning, perhaps you should have your programmer address that so they can AT LEAST see why they were warned and fined.

Thanks

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I don't want to get in trouble for posting the same thread on multiple forums (it's against the rules, right?) so here is a link to a post here on Fauna on another thread (tha't OK, isn't it?) Will I get in trouble if I post this on yet another thread? I am very confused.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showpost.php?p=320804&postcount=127

 

[critical bill]

I do not feel good 'ol Dr. Ownes should have done this, he could have taken a brief moment to drop me a line and alert me of the thread telling people of this.

In my opinion that would have been a better way to handle it. I agree.

 

[WebSlave]

Chris, Jay did nothing other then what I have asked ALL of the moderators to do. If I had seen a post from you with that signature area, it would have been me who clicked the button on you. All the mods have been asked to get hardlined about enforcing the rules and cleaning this place up. I expect people to get pissed off. I expect people to leave. I expect everyone to blame me for their problems.

But I also expect some people to breath a sigh of relief when some of those people leave. And to breath a sigh of relief for the change that is taking place.

I have had an announcement on this site since sometime in mid 2004 about the signature area. I believe it accidentally expired back in August of this year for one reason on another. I have had an entry in the warning system list at least that far back as well. And I believe it is mentioned in the Rules for Posting thread within the BOI. There was PLENTY of time and opportunity for you to have read it and known about it. Sorry, but no, I am not going to query everyone to see if they read the rules or happen to know what is acceptable here or not. I do intend to put up a site wide TOS, but right now I am spending time I should be spending on that with replies like this one.

WE are getting VERY hardline here about what will be tolerable or not. Some people have gotten way too far out of hand in how they treat other members and have openly flaunted rules they knew about or should have known about. I just let it slide too far and for too long. The simple fact that I was so lenient in the past is not grounds for someone to claim that no longer being lenient is not fair. The crap is going to end here. No matter how many "crappers" I have to toss out the door in order to do so.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I have had an announcement on this site since sometime in mid 2004 about the signature area. I believe it accidentally expired back in August of this year for one reason on another.

Perhaps you should retract the points given during the time of the "accidental expiration"?

And I believe it is mentioned in the Rules for Posting thread within the BOI.

Yes, for the BOI. I have read your posts regarding different rules for the BOI and the rest of the forum.

 

[WebSlave]

Perhaps you should retract the points given during the time of the "accidental expiration"?

Sorry, but no.

Yes, for the BOI. I have read your posts regarding different rules for the BOI and the rest of the forum.

This statement answers the question coming to my answer above of "why not". Even when the announcement was missing, this rule was still there within the rules posted on the BOI. I think most people realize that the signature area is visible site wide, and this is not a limitation specifically within the BOI.

 

[Cat_72]

OK, forgive me, but I'm getting more and more confused here. I really understand that you are trying to clean up the site, which is all fine.....but is there a reference that we can look at to see exactly what rules are what? I mean, there's been times where I wasn't absolutely certain what the appropriate forum to post something in would be, or simple things like that, and at this point I'm almost afraid to post much of anything now for fear of unwittingly posting something I'm going to get suspended for.

I understand the common idea here is just common courtesy, but I can't help but feel we shouldn't have to be afraid to post something that we don't think there's anything wrong with, but it may violate some obscure rule that perhaps out of not even knowing where to look for that rule, we don't know?

 

[Chris@TSE]

Well unfortunately I still disagree with you Rich. Again, he could have easily notified me and I would have made said change. Saying you would have done it too changes nothing. Something as silly as this does not deserve a warning, perhaps if it was a gross violation from a user who has already been warned or had done so on purpose. Assuming everyone is aware of your signature area rule because of some obscure posting that I am sure very few have read is a bit much.

Changes are in order, but this particular warning I speak of my friend is ridiculous. Unless a rule like this is automatically sent to every member in a message, how can one ASSUME someone is knowingly and willingly violating a rule and deserving of a fine?

I was warned and essentially fined for a rule I was not aware of, and to simply SEE WHY I WAS WARNED I HAD TO FORK OVER $10. Thats right, I had to pay just to see why I was warned and fined. How silly is that? Definitely a flaw there I say.......

Obviously some rule violations are more apparent than others, but a signature space restriction? C'mon.... I am sure you could have taken the same amount of time used to send a warning to extend a courtesy memo or message to someone who may not have known they were breaking a trivial restriction.

Who the hell would go out of their way to break that rule or do so on purpose? LOL

I'm all for the changes you say you're set out to make, and enforce..... But where do you draw the line?

This warning which resulted in a fine is simply BS in my opinion. A blatant lack of courtesy.

If only other rules were enforced like this.........

Lets not forget I had to fork over this cash as well to simply VIEW what my warning was! Without doing so I would not have even known what the warning or fine was for!

I think you should take a moment to address that flaw with your software as well.

Oh well, good luck. I hope to see more positive changes and less trivial BS.

 

[WebSlave]

Actually there is a list of the warnings and the points they incur. Been on this site for quite a while under the Quick Links drop down menu on the menu bar about level with the top of the right hand vertical banner ads that display on this site. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/warn.php? This does show the latest changes I have implemented. Anything with 10 points is an immediate fine and suspension. The 1 pointers will be as well if you have over 9 points on your record. If your record is clean, then you don't have anything to worry about if you make minor errors in judgement. But after 10 of them, then I have to assume you need a stronger incentive to start figuring out the ropes here.

No descriptions for them, but I think most will not be hard to figure out.

Chris, perhaps if you hadn't already racked up so many warning points on this system you wouldn't have anything to worry about concerning such minor things as "signature area abuse". That's just the way it is. Anyone with a large helping of warning points already has one foot out the door as far as I am concerned. Anyone in that category really needs to watch their step. Quite frankly, I am quite willing to accept that some people who have basically ignored the warnings that the warning system was supposed to present to them just really isn't interested in getting along with others. I don't think it is an accident when someone gets multiple instances of comparatively severe violations of common courtesy. Perhaps they can consider the possibility that now their past is catching up with them here.

And just a friendly warning, Chris. I caught that "ASSUming" dig. You have the benefit of the doubt this time, but that's it, which is actually much more then you deserve. You can stay, but your attitude has got to go. I hope I am clear about this to you. The warnings from here on out will get decidedly unfriendly.

 

[Chris@TSE]

Thats fine and dandy, I'll simply live with the fact that I feel that you and your staff could have been more courtious on such a simple trival matter. I still disagree and feel such effort can be spent better on other infractions, and felt the need to voice this opinion. I already know there is no point arguing the matter with you Rich, we all know where this leads, right or wrong. Life goes on and I'm done with it..... I have no reason to fight with you about this nor do you have any reason to feel threatened by my opinion or lay down any threats in my direction. I have no intention of wasting my time persuing this further, I've said my peace. Thanks for the "warning" however, noted.

Have a good night.

 

[WebSlave]

Lets not forget I had to fork over this cash as well to simply VIEW what my warning was! Without doing so I would not have even known what the warning or fine was for!

I think you should take a moment to address that flaw with your software as well.

It's not a flaw, it's a feature.

Quite frankly I can't see where that information is going to do you any good at all. If you are fined and suspended, the reason is not open to debate. You simply were fined and suspended. I'm not asking if you agree. There is no appeal process in this. You can simply pay the fine or not.

Might there be some mistakes? Yes, possibly. But that is the collateral damage I spoke about somewhere. No more Mr. Nice Guy, and no more giving the benefit of the doubt to anyone who has a history in their warning point file. I am going to assume the worst and act accordingly. It is up to you to make sure you don't give myself and my moderators something to ponder over as being borderline.

 

[Cat_72]

Actually there is a list of the warnings and the points they incur. Been on this site for quite a while under the Quick Links drop down menu on the menu bar about level with the top of the right hand vertical banner ads that display on this site. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/warn.php? This does show the latest changes I have implemented. Anything with 10 points is an immediate fine and suspension. The 1 pointers will be as well if you have over 9 points on your record. If your record is clean, then you don't have anything to worry about if you make minor errors in judgement. But after 10 of them, then I have to assume you need a stronger incentive to start figuring out the ropes here.

Ah, I see....I had never seen that before, didn't even know where to look for them. I guess I had read the BOI rules...but was kind of at a loss from there. I guess I'd better go peruse them.....

 

[Chris@TSE]

I think users here should be made aware of all of these rules before impending this type of action or regime change.....

A mass message perhaps?

I feel this should have been done before issuing such warnings and fines, make EVERYONE aware of every rule, a REQUIRED READING. Everyone gets the message, no excuses. such a warning and fine in my case would have been more than deserved and could not be questioned.

you can also set vbulletin up to make NEW users agree to these collective terms of your before joining, therefore new users will be aware. granted many do not pay attention, but I have a mod that will notice whether the user skims the rules or actually pages through them. ask and you shall receive, I have it around here somewhere.....

you would think with such a hardlined new outlook on enforcement you would do something like this, you are basically telling people they have to search out the rules themselves and if they miss one and are unaware, tough ****.

sorry but I find this a bit rude

Iwas honestly unaware of such a trivial rule and had I known or been informed by your staff I would have been more than happy to comply. Instead, Im warned and fined. To me this is inproper treatment of members who pay to access this site, your new changes are fine. I juyt think you can adjust the implementation of them a bit.



see what I was getting at here rich? Thanks

 

[Rockford]

I think users here should be made aware of all of these rules before impending this type of action or regime change.....

A mass message perhaps?

I feel this should have been done before issuing such warnings and fines, make EVERYONE aware of every rule, a REQUIRED READING. Everyone gets the message, no excuses. such a warning and fine in my case would have been more than deserved and could not be questioned.

you would think with such a hardlined new outlook you would do such a thing, you are basically telling people they have to search out the rules themselves and if they miss one and are unaware, tough ****.

sorry but I find this a bit rude

see what I was getting at here rich? Thanks

AGREED!!! 100%