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what the %$#@ $400 for an APTOR

G

groovygeckos

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$400 for an APTOR ?

OK Theres an ad w/ an APTOR for $400 .

Is it me or is this the exact type of thing (drastic price drop) that keeps potential investors from buying ?

Who does this hurt in the long run if a price drops quickly and you loose potential buyers ? the entire "market" (IMO) including the seller .

How could this affect the older (still awesome ) Carrothead Jungle Giant Albino (non APTOR) pricing ? which sell between $250-400 themselves , well maybe not anymore im guessing


Im a little dissapointed by this .

It is the same reason there is this "ill hold off till the price drops quick cause it will" mentality . Should we really perpetuate that ?

Anyone else have any ideas or thoughts ? :bandhead0 comforting words ?LOL
 
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I still think people will pay bigger money for quality from a proven breeder, for the very BEST examples of a morph. Its like dogs, you can get some dogs fairly cheap cause they were done by backyard breeders, BUT, the GOOD dogs with pedigree comes from top notch and well known breeders and will always demand a good price!
 
Welcome to a very competitive industry.

I set my pricing with only 5 - 10% of the decision based upon what other people are doing in the market. Most of the decision is based upon costs associated with the animal. I've been at shows where people have low balled the market and done fine. You just have to learn how to sell your benefits and exploit the competitors weakness.
 
I understand that . But this isnt a 'backyard Leo breeder' (IMO) like i`de consider myself . And it is a new morph . thats the thing i dont have a rep to be able to get top dollar for something and they most likely do and could get whatever they wanted being the first to come to market besides RT . So now am i to go even lower in price than that to be able to sell at all ? thats what i mean , and other people may take the same idea . So i guess this is more of a what IF others feel they need to match or go lower (?) know what i mean.

Seriously im nobody in this business and my lowest price to remain comparable with my lack of reputation would be $600 for an APTOR ( based on the original price of $750-1250 from RT but because it is a new morph also.
 
"You just have to learn how to sell your benefits and exploit the competitors weakness." OK you im watchin out for ! kidding :>poke2<:

Now that, ive seen first hand .
 
Honestly, what did you expect??? Those aptors are nothing special anyway..... I know many people are not crazy about them and if you ask me, 400 is still too much.....

The only morphs that hold their value are the line or selectivly bred stuff..... The co-dom stuff will hold its value for the plain fact that you can mix it in with other co-dom, linebred, and recessive morphs....
 
"So now am i to go even lower in price than that to be able to sell at all ?"

Yes, if that's all you bring to the table. I've also founding holding animals for a certain while to allow prices to flucuate can be a sound business plan as well.

I don't know anywhere in the rule book where it says the competitors have to let you make money.
 
Did you really think...

The Aptor would hold it's value for any longer??? I don't think Ron has ever been in the business to corner the market to uphold a higher value on a certain morph. So why wouldn't the Aptor just drop in price from year to year. Now look back on the Mack Snow thing. Wasn't it you and Dan L. who got stung here by Alex who wanted to limit the people who had this morph. I think we all remember that ugly scene. I think this was exactly his point on why he was so upset that you ended up with one of his animals. I hope you are not offended by my post it was the sure irony of the situation that made me write it in the first place.
Joyce
 
I understand your frustration, but I think it is like what as been mentioned already if you produce quality animals buyers will come. Its a hard business to make money at if was easy even more people would be doing it. You have nice animals I have seen your ads and your web site. Just try to be patient and keep an open mind. Wait to see what happens over the next few months then make any needed adjustments.
 
I think this was exactly his point on why he was so upset that you ended up with one of his animals.
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Sure but based on an ASSumption that i had anything different than anyone else planned for the Morph (prices etc.) . When there is noone buying at "market" the prices must fall , that i expect and prepare for . Im not out to make money at this anyways , I just see this pattern of disinterest in morphs due to prices falling . Perhaps pricing should not start out so high , i dont know . Its the bad things that the fluctuation does to the market and its investors that bothers me , not anything else . The "ugly scene" was my being a scapegoat for falling prices and being in the wrong place at the wrong time .

My post wasnt really about holding value , its what happens as a whole to the entire market because we see these prices fall . it perpetuates that attitude and prevents this from being a true 'investmest species'
 
Im not out to make money at this anyways ,
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Then who cares about the pricing or if there isn't an interest in morphs? Just breed what you desire to breed, keep what attracts your interest and sell the other stuff as normals. I mean since money isn't a factor in your equation.
 
Yes money to recoop and care for the animals is first and foremost in the equation . I Would have to cover that before i could possibly make money . And thats what im worried about . being able to sell . Not looking to make money that would be a bonus and something that comes with time .

One cant have a genuine concern for the hobby or the market other than their own ?
 
I bought my first albino burm when hatchlings were 750 wholesale. The next year at Expo in Orlando people were selling 20 lots for 300 and I witnessed one breeder saying "I'll cut their heads off before I'll sell them for 300." Look at the curent classifieds and you'll see some listed price drops, not to mention the behind the scenes drops. I also found it quite entertaining that upon placing an ad to take deposits on soon-to-hatch codom snows, one of the "chosen investors" was met with a "why get on a waiting list, we have them now" ad. That being said, take a look at Craig's ad updated today. Thoughts of working overtime and rearranging priorities come to mind. Good luck finding a deal on those.
 
If you have $1500 tied up in your APTOR project and you get 12 APTOR hatchlings from your APTORs and sell them for $400, show me where you didn't "recover your costs"! The fact is the higher end stuff is being purchased by other breeders looking to jump on the gravy train. Very few "hobbyists" or your typical "pet owners" are shelling out 100's or thousands of dollars for the "latest morph". One of the reasons I avoid the high end items (with the exception of the albino ball pythons, which is really just middle now) is because of the asinine prices put on these animals and the subsequent decrease in the prices of said animals. Sort of the same reason i will never buy a brand new car, can afford it, but why would I want to be making payments on something that is worth less than is owed on it. New cars, like most overpriced herps, are NOT an investment they are simply things we enjoy.
 
Breeders are connected to pet stores, so they should help each other out when ever th

The market is slow right now, sometimes it's better sell for any price. I sold over 60 high to medium end geckos to pet stores.

150 Geckos average cost to maintain is $500.00 month, food and paper towels, etc. That is if you give them the best care. In 2 or 3 months they are ready to sell. You are lucky if you can even break even.

If your only a breeder, you should have a wholesale price list for pet stores, to move the gecko's that are not selling fast, and keep the best to sell yourself for a high price to other breeders. Your average pet owner does not want to pay 400.00 for a pet for a 10 year old kid.

Breeders should support pet stores, they sell them cheaper and get more people into and interested in reptiles, which in turn helps the breeder when they want a higher end gecko.

Example: 100 people get - 65.00 geckos which breeder might of sold on KS for 150.00. 50 people of the 100 now want another gecko, the pet store is all out, or they want a nicer looking gecko to breed. So now they look on-line, now the breeder sells a nice hold back, to them for 250.00 or 300.00.

Breeders are connected to pet stores, so they should help each other out when ever they can.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Well Thanks for your 2 cents ! Thanks everyone !

All i had really asked anyone in the thread though was
Just to see other peoples opinions on what lower or conflicting prices for a given Morph do to the entire market for them . Im trying to create my own opinion w/ some feedback from someone who actually knows instead of what i can asume .
 
Just to see other peoples opinions on what lower or conflicting prices for a given Morph do to the entire market for them
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What I see a lot of is people with little confidence in their product or in their ability to sell that quickly start competeing solely on price. Then it's a rapid race to the bottom dollar where no one makes a dime.

My personal experience is that things will sell if the price is reasonable (doesn't mean the highest or the lowest) and given enough time. It's a gamble on finding the right balance between time and price to make sure you are getting a return on your investment.
 
Just wondering...

My post wasnt really about holding value , its what happens as a whole to the entire market because we see these prices fall . it perpetuates that attitude and prevents this from being a true 'investmest species'
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I just think that leos are just to easily to captive breed. I have never thought of them as investment type animals. I think they are very versatile and people are doing amazing things with all the morphs. Many new morphs are just way over priced yet people who have to have the newest morph will continue to pay top dollar. It is money and the possibly of being able to quickly reproduce the morph with the expectation of making lots of money that drives this monster.
I paid $250 for a male tangerine gecko about 6 years ago who by todays standard is a $75 gecko, yet the tangerine market has held pretty solid for many years. But it is a reasonable market for the hobbyist and the small to mid sized breeder. Also look at the Bell Albinos not extremely costly to get into, yet I think that was due to Kelli keeping the price reasonable. I think she could have easily offered these animals at a higher cost and people would have bought them. This is the type of breeder I who I want to do business with. This is not to say that Dan you don't have nice geckos you have great looking geckos as do many others breeding the high end stuff. It's just I would never buy one of your $1000 geckos nor any $400 geckos. But hey if I could get one of your Aptors for $75 send me your Paypal account and I'd have the money there in a heartbeat. :nuts:
Joyce
 
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