| Author | Subject: Tim Samra Tribal Reptile Company BAD GUY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| GM | Posted At 16:02:21 02/21/2001
BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU 2/21/01 550 WEST ORANGE THORPE AVENUE PLACENTIA, CALIFORNIA 92870 (909)825-7280 FAX (714)985-8920 Attention: BETTER BUSINESS BEUREAU, This document and receipts is to inform you and make a formal complaint against Mr. Tim Samra and his business TRIBAL REPTILE COMPANY. TRIBAL REPTILE COMPANY 112 ORANGE REDLANDS, CALIFORNIA 92373 TEL: (909) 798-7800 EMAIL: TRIBAL.REPTILE@VERIZON.NET I originally became aware of Tribal Reptile Company through their advertisements on the Internet and telephoned them about what type of reptiles they sold. Mr. Samra was the individual who I spoke with and I had decided to make a purchase. At no time was their ever said or implied the fact of a “NO CASH REFUND or ONLY STORE CREDIT POLICY” either verbally or in writing in their Internet postings On September 09, 2000 I purchased $1500.00 worth of US Postal Money Orders and mailed them to Mr. Samra for the intent of purchasing reptiles from he and or his company in good faith. I had sine been in the midst of a family crisis and had informed Mr. Samra on numerous accounts over the telephone that I was not in a position now or at any time in the future to purchase any animals from him. He continually avoided my telephone calls and only let me speak with his store manager, a person by the name of Chris (I do not know his last name). Chris kept giving me the run around that Mr. Samra was in and out and not available to take my calls. I had explained my situation to Chris and he assured me that he would make Mr. Samra aware of the situation and have him work toward a resolution. Well this was back in October of 2000 and I have come to find after repeated attempts that they are refusing to refund my $1500.00. I am physically UN able to care for any reptiles from them due to my living situation and Mr. Samra just seems to not care and is continuing to ignore my plea for a full cash refund. I am hoping for some assistance from your service before I proceed to small claims court, besides posting my story of their unethical business practices on the internet for other unsuspecting buyers to view so that they may not have to go through what I am dealing with. Thank You, |
| Joel |
Re: Tim Samra Tribal Reptile Company BAD GUY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 22:00:13 02/21/2001 I am not taking sides and appreciate your honesty. From what I understand about the business I don't know of any seller company or individual who would refund your money for that reason as they are inthe business to sell thier animals. Most reputable places will issue credit or some sort of refund if animal dies or was vet checked and it turned out sick before you got it. I may be wrong but they should've (if they didn't told you that when you first called. Your best bet would be to post on herpauction and try to recoup some of your money and move on. I didn't hear anything about te quality so I'm assuming they were in good shape and health. I hope you find a resolution to your situation as noether of you sound bad just an unfortunate situation. My final thought is they did nothing wrong other than as you say gave you the run around. Good Luck, Joel |
| CurtJ |
Re: Tim Samra Tribal Reptile Company BAD GUY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 23:12:44 02/21/2001 I have never posted on this forum, but what is the BBB going to do? You agreed to buy reptiles and sent them money. Now something came up in your life and you are trying to hold the seller responsible. The term "bad guy" should be changed to "cannot predict future problems with personal lives of customers" -curtj |
| Rich Zuchowski |
Re: Tim Samra Tribal Reptile Company BAD GUY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 23:38:33 02/21/2001 OK, so I'm reading this post and thinking how I might feel if I were on the receiving and of this complaint. If I understand this correctly, an order was placed to Tribal Reptile back at the beginning of September for $1,500 worth of animals. Then after the money has been sent, the purchaser (GM) has a change of heart or circumstances, which were not Tribal Reptile's fault. Since we are only hearing one side of this story, some assumptions have to be made. (1) Tribal Reptiles had the animals available and considered them sold upon consumation of the deal as indicated by receipt of funds. (2) At some point after the deal was consumated, the purchaser asks to be released from his obligation to take the aforementioned animals and get a full and complete refund. (3) Apparently Tribal Reptiles is not inclined to accept the breaking of an implied contract of sale due to the circumstances expressed by the purchaser. (4) The purchaser has filed a complaint with the BBB based on details that were NOT said, implying that by them NOT saying or noting a particular policy, that it implies that they are violating *something* in an unethical manner because the purchaser wants them to do something that he claims they MUST do because they never said they would NOT do it. Did I lose you all here? This is a convoluted concept to get your brain around, I admit. It's like saying he has a right to their first born children because they explicitly did not say that they would not give them to him. I know in a similar position, I would have taken the animals off of the market, since I would have assumed they were sold, and this would have possibly lost sales from prospective buyers. From the original message, it is implied that a month went by from the sending of the money orders to the time that GM had a change of circumstances. I don't know about Tribal Reptile, but I do know in my situation during that time of year, I would be doing a couple of shows, that those animals supposedly already sold, would not be going to, since I would be expecting to ship them out. That would mean LOTS of lost opportunities to sell them to someone else. Personally, I think going to small claims court will get GM's butt burned off. I don't think he has a leg to stand on. No matter what his change of situation, he entered into an implied contractual sale. Also, I think that Tribal Reptile would be perfectly justified in filing a countersuit agains GM claiming maintainance fees for those animals that GM has refused to accept after he consumated the purchase, and possibly could claim damage to their reputation by his filing a frivolous claim with the BBB. Now we are not told the severity of GM's plight, so it's hard for me to determine exactly how I would handle such a situation myself. I've had my share of backed out deals with sob stories and have always refunded the person's money, no matter what my personal feelings were in the matter. But I would be STRONGLY inclined to deduct a percentage of the total from the refund. This percentage would be at LEAST 20 percent, the same as a lost deposit. And I would only offer to refund the amount minus deposit and expenses once those purchased animals have been resold to someone else. In no event would I feel held liable for things I did not explicitly state in conversations or as displayed on my web site. Ok, so I'm taking sides here. But this is an issue that I think everyone selling herps is going to face sooner or later and I think both sides of the fence need to be aware of what it looks like to the other side. It all boils down to a commitment being a two way street and can only be broken cleanly when BOTH sides agree to the resolution. One side breaking the commitment cannot call the other side *BAD* just because the other side feels justified in trying to force the first side to uphold their prior stated obligation. When someone places an order with me, then a commitment has been made. I cannot sell those animals to someone else just because that other person offered me $20 more for them. But I certainly expect the person placing the order to hold up their end of the bargain as well. IMHO, of course. Rich Z. |
| Jeff Houston |
Re: Tim Samra Tribal Reptile Company BAD GUY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 12:39:36 02/22/2001 There are too many questions unanswered here. Like how long did all this stuff go on? Was it days, weeks or months? How many animals, what kind? Were they normal stocking reptiles or special interest ones. (this would be much different if it were Galiwasps or baby ackies, one is easy to sell while the other is a special interest type reptile) I find it disturbing that they did not just come out and tell this guy that the money was non-refundable. I don't think the run-around was needed. If it is policy to keep any and all money sent to you why not tell him that over the phone the first time he called? I do reptiles as a hobby, I own a pool store and am a pool contractor. I have done business with many people and found that "the customer is always right"! When I sell something "odd" I tell the person it is non-refundable. If it is standard products then why not take it back? I would rather refund money and have a happy customer. If you run the bottom line of your business that tight maybe you should think about getting into something else. If you can't afford to keep a few animals for a couple weeks then you need to take a look at your business. This is my opinion, the law of this is questionable. A contract is enforcable when two parties have both performed a task or function. This guy sent his money, Tribal never sent animals. It is clear that Tribal has not performed that end of the contract. It is sticky when dealing with live animals, what are they going to do? Ship animals and hope they get there? There is the other ethical question, this guy says he can't take the animals. What else is there to do, hold his money for ever or send animals that you know are not going to be properly set up and cared for? I would not send my animals into this situation. In my opinion, (and my own business practice) I would give the money back and may hold back a small percent to cover costs. (depends on species) This too is sticky, I have no idea what the real cost of this transaction is to Tribal, they are the ones who know that. I think 20% is extreme. (keep in mind we don't have all the facts) I think 5-10% would be more reasonable. Keeping $300 from a $1500 payment just for not shipping a reptile seems too much. Without more facts it seems that $100 or $150 should cover all feeding and housing costs. Just my opinions, I look forward to reading what Tribal has to say. (oh yes, the other side) Remember the golden rule... Jeff Houston |
| Kathryn |
Re: Tim Samra Tribal Reptile Company BAD GUY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 14:43:48 02/22/2001 I can see both sides of the situation here. On one side, GM has paid for animals and then had some emergency come up where he is in need of funds and lacks the ability to care for the animals anymore (presumably for monetary reasons again). Disasters DO happen, and it sounds like GM could really use the money. Also, apparently there was no notice about the no-refunds policy on the website he ordered from. (Taking GM's word for that) And they haven't shipped him anything. On the other side, there's Tribal Reptile Co, which has been caring for the animals this whole time. They've been incurring expenses for the animals' food and care, plus whatever wages they pay to helpers to take care of the animals. If they end up keeping the reptiles, then they have to find people to buy them, and the time they were holding them for GM is lost time that could have been used to sell them. They have also offered GM store credit instead of the animals. I don't think either side is the 'bad guy', but clearly soemthing needs to be done. Tribal Reptiles has both the animals and the money, which is not appropriate. Either Tribal should see about refunding GM's money and maybe work out with him the costs for keeping and feeding the animals, or they should send him the reptiles reguardless of GM's ability to care for them (I know we'd all rather see them go to good homes...). Keeping both is definately in violation of the buyer-seller agreement. If Tribal keeps both, then I'd imagine GM -would- have some legal recourse against them. GM, a possible third solution is to accept the animals or the store credit, and then sell that to others who can afford to care for the animals? Just trying to see both sides of the arguement. -Kathryn |