Bad deal w/ Dan Atkinson opinions wanted.

Author Subject: Bad deal w/ Dan Atkinson opinions wanted.
Brian Conley Posted At 11:00:55 03/13/2001
I oringinally posted this below, in with Jordan Russell's post about Mr. Atkinson, now it seems after reading about "piggybacking" many people would perfer I do an individual post. No Problem. I will keep this as short as possible while still stating my side of the story. I have retaned almost all of our original corespondence and can provide it as proof of my statements. However this evidence is over 20 pages long so I can't post it all here unless the webmaster wants me to.
On or about 10/21/00 Mr. Atkinson posted 3 snakes for sale on Kingsnake.com they were as follows:
0.1 10ft albino-green burmese $350
0.1 10ft albino burmese $300
0.1 7ft albino burmese $300
His ad stated he was not interested in trades but I contacted him with an idea for a trade anyway. I offered him 5 misc. blood pythons for the 3 burms. We discussed each snake (size, sex, temperment, ect.) and Dan agreed to the trade on 10/23/00. We stayed in contact both over the phone and with email until 10/25/00 when I shipped my animals (all 5) to Dan via Delta Dash per his instructions and at my expense. On 10/26/00 Dan sent an email stating the snakes did not come in and were left in Atlanta. I immediately called Delta and they assured me the snakes arrived in Ca on time and had already been picked up and signed for! Dan explained that he had to send someone else to the airport and they must have gotten their signals crossed. He also explained that the guys at the Delta counter were friends of his and saw the shipment so they "put it behind the counter so nothing would happen to it." My question is this: where did the whole Atlanta thing come from if the guys at the counter themselves had put the snakes aside for Dan? Also how long did those bloods sit at the airport before they got picked up and delivered to Dan?
Dan called me later that evening with two complaints:
1) He said that ONE animal "had some fluid in it's mouth." We talked about this and I assured him the animals left Orlando in good shape and that I had all of them for what I considered a good length of time (the shortest amount I had had any of them was over 2 months the longest was over a year and all were feeding with no problems). He said it didn't seem very bad and he would heat him up, I agreed that would probably do the trick. I AT NO TIME gave ANY sort of guarantee on the animal or any animals at this point, especially after there was such a long delay in the time between me shipping and him recieving the animals.
2) Dan was also upset about the sex ratio. He said he was expecting 2.3 and got 4.1. When we talked about the bloods I told him the following: the smallest pair was just that, a 1.1 pair (I even double checked the sexes on these before sending them), there was also a very unique orange female (again double checked), and then there was a large "pair." When I told Dan about this pair I told him they were large and mean and I could not sex them by myself, they were sold to me as a pair but I had not been able to verify. I told him if it really mattered I would get someone to help me and confirm the sexes. He said "no don't do that because I don't want them injured and as long as there are at least 2 females there won't be a problem." He wanted to sell 2 pairs and keep one for a pet. After our phone conversation he was satisified that there were at least two females out of the five I sent and we went on from there.
I waited until 12/29/00 to recieve Dan's shipment. Before sending it Dan contacted me to let me know that he would not be sending the albino-green female (the most valuable snake he had to offer) as it was "to sick to ship." This seemed strange to me as just 3 days before it was in "great shape," but he had my animals and I had nothing yet so what could I do. Dan suggested that maybe he had something else I might be interested in, he did not. He then told me he had some colubrids coming in the next week, I said to contact me when they got there and maybe I would be interested in some of those. Apparently, they never came because early in Nov. Dan left a message on my answering machine stating that he would have to send me $350 as he didn't have anything I wanted (I still have tape of the message).
I feel I need to also tell everyone about the condition of the animals I recieved from Dan as I was not 100% happy w/ what I recieved either. Dan did warn me that the snakes were thin and that he did not have them for a long time. This did not prepare me for what I saw when I opened the box. Two burmese pythons, about 16ft worth, weighing only 35lbs combined and with the weight of the box, (if know burms,you know how light that is). One not in pillow case, and the other with dried blood all over it's face. He also failed to put a new heat pack in the box, but was kind enough to leave the long since expired one he insisted I include in my shipment, taped to the lid!
Thourghout the month of Nov. we continued to correspond and Dan said "the check is in the mail." After weeks of waiting on it, Dan admitted he was "just biding time until he recieved money from someone else." I said not a problem just be honest w/ me and we can work thourgh this. Finally on Dec. 5th, 2000 (41 days after he recieved my shipment) I recieved a partial payment of $150 from Dan via Western Union. I recieved an email from Dan on 12/11/00 that he was still trying to put the rest of the money together. I said no problem just let me know when we can finish this up.
On 12/30/00, (my post below said 12/28/00 I went back to double check and realized it was even later than I thought), I recieved an email from Dan stating that he had traded the snakes off to friends of his and that 3 of the five had died about 10-14 days ago (putting them in his, or someone elses' possesion, 3500 miles from me, for at least a month and a half before their supposed untimely deaths). He asked in the email what "I wanted to do about it." At this point I was more than a little upset. Here it was 2 full months since he recieved the bloods from me, he no longer owned them, and STILL HAD NOT PAYED ME FOR THEM and he wanted to know what I wanted to do about it. I told him I wanted the remaining $200 he owed me and that I never wanted to deal with him again. Dan was not happy with this response. He wanted me to send him money so that he could reimburse his friends that had had the snakes die. Please understand at this point I still do not know for sure that the animals really are dead, as Dan has never sent any proof. Not that that matters as there was no guarantee that the snakes would live forever in whoevers' care Dan saw fit to sell them to.

Now when I read the posts about Dan they seem to run about 70/30 for him being a good guy. This is my only experience w/ him, and also my only experience buying/selling/trading over the web. Am I in the wrong here? Should I guarantee my animals forever even when resold to third parties and regaurdless of the fact that I have not yet been paid for them, or should Dan Atkinson who "would never risk his reputation for any amount of money," send me the remaining $200 he owes me?

I thank you for your time and for your response,
Brian Conley
Robert Hill Re: Bad deal w/ Dan Atkinson opinions wanted.
Posted At 13:44:41 03/13/2001

Brian,

I agree with your point of view wholeheartedly. The only guarantees I would make in your case(if any), would be a 24-48 hour guarantee post arrival of the animals. And that guarantee would only apply to Dan Atkison, not Joe Blow that he has decided to sell the animals too. In my opinion, when an animal leaves the hands of the person I sell it to, then my guarantee no longer applies. Dan would need to make the guarantees on that sale since it is after all HIS sale, not yours anymore. There would be no need for you to obtain proof of death, since after all, they have been out of your care for quite some time. If I bought a car from you, didn't completely pay for it, then two months later crashed it into a tree, is that your fault and should you refund me? Hell no!

I have not done any deals with any of the people involved in the last couple of strings involving Mr. Atkison, but some of what has been said seems to show that in person, he is a great business man and seems to bend over backward to keep his customers satisfied. But from what I have read concerning his online/mail-order business, that record seems pretty tainted. People not getting what they ordered, not getting paid, or just not being satisfied. I guess my point is, if you aren't prepared to offer extended customer service through online/mail orders, then don't offer those services.

Again, I thought I would just offer my opinions on what I have seen so far of Mr. Atkinson's business practices.

Happy Herping!
crystal Re: Bad deal w/ Dan Atkinson opinions wanted.
Posted At 17:08:58 03/13/2001

Brian,
Joe just offers a live arrival on his animals, and after reading this post, I can tell you that you that Dan is in the wrong here, people come up with all kinds of stories to keep from giving you your money.
Charlie Salmon Re: Bad deal w/ Dan Atkinson opinions wanted.
3338.html Posted At 16:48:17 05/14/2001



Brian,

You did nothing wrong,Dan likes to make the rules as he goes!!He ripped me off,as I sent him 250.00 for a "yearling" Cave-dwelling ratsnake(E.t.ridleyi).When I opened the box,I was floored!The snake was the length of a hatchling right out of the egg,but half its normal
body weight!!I called him in seconds!!He said he got it from Ben Siegel,(which I doubt)and he would take care of it.The snake died within 8 hours!!It then took more than 9 days to get him on the phone or an e-mail return.He had some excuse about money problems,but would take care of it.When he finally sent me a refund,it was his personal check(#406-NEW Account)(I sent him a postal money order via express mail for the sanke)His check was bad as I checked with my bank and two check cashing places.I sent his check back and he has only insulted me numerous times and refuses to refund my money.DAN ATKINSON is a THEIF and SHOULD NOT BE TRUSTED!!!!!!I have posted a warning on one of my kingsnake.com ads to have it deleted by the webmaster at DAN ATKINSON's
request.But that was three days after the post!!Many people e-mailed me about DAN ATKINSON involving BAD DEALS with him.Some in California,Oregon, and Arizona!
Brian Conley Re: Bad deal w/ Dan Atkinson opinions wanted.
3362.html Posted At 10:22:49 05/15/2001

Charlie, I couldn't agree more. I only hope this post isn't too far down for people to see. I read the forum every day, but only come this far down about once a week.
Dan is a liar plain and simple. During our first conversation all he could talk about was "his word" and how great it was. Yet he lied to me again and again and again. Frankly, I'm surprised there were people that had good things to say about him. Ben made a post less than a month ago that said he had never dealt w/ Dan, and having dealt w/ Ben personally I know he would never misrepresent an animal.
Folks, I've said it once and I'll say again and forever: "Dan Atkinson is a liar!" It's not only my opinion here's proof:----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Atkinson
To: BNR.COM
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 12:50 AM
Subject: Re: blood pythons

Brian, Last we spoke you told me if I don't receive it tomorrow ill let you no.
I said if you don't get it I'll send you another check out for next day.
When I did not here back from you after Monday then I assumed you received it.
My check is out there some where, and if you have not gotten it yet then I'll put a stop on it.
Iv been real busy. I never resent it. I really figured you must have gotten it.

Lets due the WU tomorrow I have no problems with it.
I have not done allot of those, but I'll do what ever you want im very sorry for this whole mess.
Email me please, the info I need and I'll do it before noon tomorrow.

OK?
Dan

My reply:

----- Original Message -----
From: BNR.COM
To: Dan Atkinson
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 6:18 AM
Subject: Re: blood pythons

Dan, I waited an extra day just to give the post office the benefit of the doubt. Anyway W.U. the money to: Brian Conley, Umatilla, FL 32784. I don't think you need any more info than that, but if so let me know. Thanks, Brian.

I checked Western Union the next day as instructed by Dan; NO MONEY. I waited until Dec. 3rd checked again, NO MONEY, and then sent the following message:

----- Original Message -----
From: BNR.COM
To: Dan Atkinson
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: blood pythons

Dan, I STILL have not received anything from you. It is now 39 days from when I fulfilled my part of this bargain. I am tired of going places looking for money and it not being there. I am tired of playing phone tag and emailing back and forth. I think I have been more than fair and more than patient in waiting on you to sew up the details on your part of this deal. I fully understand that you were not looking to lay out cash in this deal, but it is a deal you agreed to and now it is time to get this done. If I do not hear from you VERY soon I am going to assume that you have no intention of fulfilling your part of this deal and I will be forced to act accordingly. I did not want this deal to come down to this but at this point I see no other option. If you can not come up with the cash please send a list of what you will be willing to part with to finalize this transaction. Thank you, Brian Conley.

HIs reply:


----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Atkinson
To: BNR.COM
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 8:55 AM
Subject: Re:

I've told you there has been a $$ problem from the start.
I was supposes to get a check from a guy on some stuff he was buying Friday so I told you I would send it WU.
I never did get the check Friday, or Sunday. Thanks for being patient about this, you don't no me and im sure this all look like im a big flack. Iv never been in this position before, it is a little new to me.
I was hurt at work about 6 months ago and money is more that tight right now. I would never had done this deal had I known in advance the burm. was sick. I hope me not sending her to you sick tells you a little something about the way I do business. I'm really sorry for all the run around, really im am.
Please give me till Monday and I'll WU you the $150 as I said. I would have called you or email you but I did not really no what to say. I'll get this done for you Monday and work on the $200 left as soon as possible. I'll try and have it done this month. Please don't view this as I bought something from you then could not pay for it. That's not the case, I was not planning on buying an animal. Things are real tight and there was no room (bill wise) for any extra.
Again I no you have waited for this, thanks very much.
Please give me till Monday night, you have my word I'll take care of it one way or another by then.
Regards

PS...I no you have been more than fair, this really bothers me owing you and not having it to give you.
I am not a liar, but it has really bugged me (Allot) that I was so short money wise, that I told you I sent $$ when
I didn't.
What I was doing was biding time so I could try and come up with it another way. I hope you can forgive me for lying to you.
I did not like writing this either, but I'm very against being dishonest. This whole out of work thing has had me
very upset. Sorry you had to get in the middle. Im not trying to sound corny but I did need to email this and let you no.
Dan

I sent the following reply:

----- Original Message -----
From: BNR.COM
To: Dan Atkinson
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 6:29 PM
Subject: Re:

Dan, thank you for the honesty. Now we can work through this. I can stand to wait on the money, I can't stand to be lied to. Monday will be fine if you can do it then; if you can't send the whole $150 send what you can. I don't want your family to have go w/o. Please be straight w/ me from now on and we won't have any problems. Also you mentioned that you were getting a bunch of babies in; if those came let me know what your surplus is, maybe there's something I can use. Thanks, Brian.


He did finally send the $150. But as everyone can see he used the oldest trick in the book; "the checks in the mail," and then later admits it wasn't, and that he was only trying to buy some time. Dan still owes me $200 and I'll be sure to let everyone know if he ever pays me. When I talked to Dan on the phone in Feb. he said the check thing "wasn't really a lie," because he fully intended to send the money. Well, I don't know what a lie is in CA, but here in FL it's when you say something that you know to be untrue. And as you said, Dan makes up the rules as he goes along so that in his world, he can lie whenever he feels it nessecessary.

P.S. Anyone that is interested, I can email the full complaint I filed w/ Kingsnake and the FBI. contact me at: conleyb@lake.k12.fl.us It has most of the emails we passed back and forth along w/ my side of the story. It's pretty good reading I think. One can see how Dan's lies just kept biting him in the butt time after time after time.

Thanks, Brian

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