| Author | Subject: Isis Reptiles (Bad Guy) |
| John Staursky | Posted At 12:45:24 03/13/2001
I am sooo tired of this, but I am going to go ahead and post this last time. Back in December, I think it was, I made a deal with Mike Madic (spelling) of Isis Reptiles. We agreed to trade 1 albino sand boa for some of his baby colubrids and I was to sell him another one for $150 because he had purchased another one and was so happy with it that he wanted more and I told him I would give him a deal on one. I think he shipped me my baby colubrids first, I don't remember… they were all fine, just run of the mill stuff. One or two didn't make it thru shipping but I usually don't even bother mentioning that. Anyways, I sent him his 2 albino sand boas, then he paid me $150 after he received them in good order. I have an e-mail confirming that they received them and they "look good" so I considered it a done deal. About 3 weeks later he contacts me about another possible trade and casually says by the way how about refunding me my money because I don't like the sand boas and they won't eat, or something to that effect. To make a long story short, he wanted a $400 cash refund, or some of my breeder colubrids. I offered him a pair of nice replacement albino sand boas and he refused them and I told him that I was sorry there was nothing else I could do for him. He didn't like the color of the sand boas?? He valued his trade at $250 and I valued them at about $100, that's why I traded in the first place because I don't pay $25 wholesale for a pueblan milksnake, do you? So there you have it, this guy and the guy nick below are my two unsatisfied customers out of dozens and dozens of very satisfied customers. If you can find anyone else anywhere besides these two people that were not happy with their purchase from me and I did not take care of them, then you let me know about it because you won't find any. I am not going to respond to any more of this nonsense, and if you think your whining about how you think you got jipped is going to change anything or effect me in any way, you're wrong. There are some customers that you just cannot satisfy, period! If I were worried about any so called "reputation" do you think I would jeopardize it over a few sand boas?? Some of you guys are amazing on here! I know one thing, I'm wholesaling everything out this year, I need a break from all of this whining on the internet. Good afternoon, and have fun trying to ruin my so called "reputation" because I guarantee you one thing, if I have a table set up somewhere with nice animals for sale, people are going to buy them and not give 2 sh%ts about what mike or nick said on this forum. John Staursky Anyone having questions about this, please don't hesitate to call me and I will explain my attitude to you in detail. I think you will understand completely. 301-893-8918 |
| Richard Sanchez |
Preemptive strike? Why is this stuff allowed here???
Posted At 22:47:13 03/13/2001 I have personally done business with Isis Reptiles and find them to be very honest straight forward people. Hopefully they will have an opportunity to respond to this. It is sad that this forum allows honest people to be labeled as a "bad guy"! What is their crime??? They were not happy with their trade??? It is irresponsible to allow this kind of garbage on here! Wheres the rip-off? What this board has come to??? Is this a preemptive strike? If there are people getting scammed please share it and post it here, but this is sad!!!!!!! I have seen so much stuff on here that is disturbing and I do not believe the webmaster is shieled from liability as he invites this to go on. The case law that protects AOL does not apply here and this board should be better monitored or the web master should and will accept resposibility for what it posted here. Any potential damage to ISIS and their reputation because this posting is allowed is just uncalled for. |
| Mike Madec |
Re: Isis Reptiles (Bad Guy)
Posted At 22:49:45 03/13/2001 John, so sorry to hear that you are still so upset about being thrown off of kingsnake.com. If you had sold healthy reptiles, you wouldn't have gotten so many complaints which led to your being thrown off. I didn't place a complaint with kingsnake.com, only to you. By the way, we never were able to get those sand boas to eat, and both died within days of each other, three weeks after we received them. Now I know firsthand why you were thrown off of kingsnake.com. No hard feelings on my part, and good luck in your future endeavors. |
| Webmaster |
Re: Isis Reptiles (Bad Guy)
Posted At 00:01:12 03/14/2001 Sigh, so now according to Mr. Sanchez I am endowed with godlike abilities to be able to instinctively know whom is posting garbage and whom is posting the truth. Gee, and I get this all from just starting a message board. I had no idea of the fringe benefits I would reap. So, Mr. Sanchez, please explain to me just HOW I would be able to determine what you are claiming should be obvious to me. Just because YOU say something good about someone should be good enough evidence for me? And how could the forum be better monitored to accomplish what you say is lacking? |
| Richard Sanchez |
Re: Isis Reptiles (Bad Guy)
Posted At 01:01:33 03/14/2001 Hey Mr Z, no need to sigh...Easy to answer your questions... First, who owns, pays for and put up the "board of inquiry"??? ....Ok here it comes...YOU and only YOU... YOU set the rules and it is up to YOU to monitor this board to ensure good people dont get labeled as a "bad guy" when it doesnt apply. As I stated it is important to have a place to warn people about "breeders/dealers" who rip people off outright. There have been some people who have posted some important info and have provided documentation in support of their allegation. Its important as the site owner/webmaster to ensure the facts are noted and the topic applies to this board. One example is the posting by John. ISIS wasnt happy with the trade...Ok... Is this the place to label them as a "bad guy"? I think it headline is misleading and implies they did something wrong. As you are the webmaster and solely in control of this board, you are responsible to maintain its content. If you cannot do that then you shouldnt be in control of such a board. You have taken on a large responsibility, but you seem hesitent to fulfill your obligation to properly maintain your own rules of this forum. Finally, with regards to ISIS, they are well know in Southern California and are nice people (husband and wife). Since I answered your question...Will you answer mine? Do you think Johns posting was appropriate considering its content and the label of "bad guy"? |
| Keith Hillson |
Re: Isis Reptiles (Bad Guy)
Posted At 01:37:29 03/14/2001 Hey Sanchez LISTEN to what the webmaster is saying ! how is he to know who is lying and who is not ? its for us to determine thats the point we make our own judgements with the info provided everyone has a right to respond to a complaint be it good or bad. Just go away Sanchez im sick of reading yours and people like yours negative posts about this forum. in other words quit whinning ! Keith Hillson |
| Webmaster |
Re: Isis Reptiles (Bad Guy)
Posted At 08:18:52 03/14/2001 To Mr. Sanchez: I will run this board in whatever manner I choose to. As you pointed out, I am paying the bills, I am taking the time to play footsie with every Tom, Dick and Harry that feels that they got their toes stepped on. And I am the one people are whining to because they think they are getting a raw deal because not everyone thinks the same way they do about their business. If you think I am going to spend every waking moment trying to verify what anyone says on it, then you are sadly mistaken. Just out of curiosity, how would you recommend that I do that? If YOU were running this board, how would you accomplish this? And even if you could, with no possibility of an error or bias on your part, you would feel comfortable playing as a judge in all matters that pass through the message board? Would you post a rule or disclaimer stating: "Only messages that I believe are true will be allowed on this forum."? I specifically did NOT call this board the HerpCourt, which actually did cross my mind. But such a name certainly would have implied that there was a judge that would preside in all matters posted on it, and that was not my intention then, and certainly still is not today. The Board of Inquiry is fullfilling what I designed and hoped it would accomplish. No it's no perfect, and nor do I suspect it ever will be. And yes, I am in control of this board, and as such I am saying that ANYTHING ANYONE wants to post as long as it is done expressing facts, opinions (noted as such), in a non-inflammatory manner, and annotated with a full name and valid email address CAN be posted here. It is up to the person posting such messages to support their facts and stand behind their opinions. In many cases of a dispute between two parties, each may label the other as a (BAD GUY). That's perfectly understandable. And in some cases, one may obviously turn out to actually be the bad guy in the deal. In others BOTH may be bad guys because both have taken stances that many people will consider to be unreasonable or foolish. And in some cases neither will be bad guys, just they both have taken reasonable stances but there just is no middle ground between them. I am not going to play judge in these matters. I just provided a place for them to be aired and people like yourself to read about them, comment about them, and in some cases, bitch about my doing so. YOU can be the judge and decide whatever you want to about what people are saying when you are considering doing business with a participant in a thread. You are welcome to believe whatever you like, and if your personal knowledge refutes what other people are saying, then you just do what you have to do with your own knowledge or belief. So to specifically answer your question about John's posting, yes, I believe it is a valid posting since from his perspective, he believes that the other party is a bad guy. The fact that you and others may not believe this to be true is irrelevant to any determination of his post being appropriate to this forum. You are free to post what you want, but I certainly see no reason why I, nor anyone else should consider you as the ultimate authority. You are perfectly welcome to put up a board exactly like this, and do as you please. If you decide that friends of yours are being labeled as bad guys or people that you personally know are being unfairly labeled, you can certainly delete them by being the ultimate judge in those matters. But quite frankly, I think a board like this being run by someone obviously biased like that would be much worse and far less useful than what I am attempted to maintain here. That's my opinion, and you are welcome to prove me wrong with your own board, if you so desire. So let's wrap this up right now. This sub-thread is no longer appropriate in the thread about Isis Reptiles since it is more of a discussion between you and myself about my apparent failings in godhood. You can make one more post as an answer to this one, but after that, I think it would be best to move this into it's own thread. You are welcome to initiate that, if you wish. |
| Richard Sanchez |
Re: Isis Reptiles (Bad Guy)
Posted At 13:01:24 03/14/2001 Mr Z, first I appreciate the opportunity to reply... Here is your definition of a bad guy as noted above: "(BAD GUY) - someone or some business that should be avoided. Provide FACTS supporting this opinion." So in your opinion you feel it was appropriate to allow this type of label for someone who was not happy with their trade..."Someone that should avoided" by your own definition...This is why you cannot be shielded from liability...YOU created this board and YOU created the defintion and by your own admission when asked YOU support the label which applies to ISIS. Most people will not remember the specifics of this posting months from now, but if they remember just the label "bad guy" when the name ISIS is brought up then that is wrong and being your board, your rules and your label, YOU should be held accountable. I note you like to "play to the audience" which is truly irresponsible rather than address the issue. This is one thing you will never see Jeff at Kingsnake do...He is a true professional in this industry. I do not think this board is a bad idea I just think it is not properly monitored or followed and abit out of control. |
| Webmaster |
Re: Isis Reptiles (Bad Guy)
Posted At 14:03:51 03/14/2001 OK, so I have reread my definition of (BAD GUY) and then reread the post made by John Staursky. My belief is that he posted the details in his message to support the label he applied in the topic line. That is HIS statement, he has stated the details and facts as he believes them, and I have no direct information or knowledge to dispute what he says. I believe John is adequately describing what he believes to be his side of the story and that's just the way it is. Even if I personally knew the subject and disagreed with his assessment, I would not be inclined to censor him nor anyone here simply because of my own beliefs. So I am certainly not inclined to delete this thread simply because YOUR beliefs are different from his. If you have any concrete evidence to support your carrying the banner for the subject of this thread, then please do so. I completely disagree with your assessment of my responsibilities and liabilities here. I also do not care whether you are happy with the amount, quality, or frequency of monitoring I may do here. I never made any claim at all that I intended to investigate the truth of every message posted here, and I truly would like to know how you would expect someone to do that. (In another thread of course, as this one is being closed to this discussion). Everyone has the opportunity to just point their browsers elsewhere if they don't like the way things are run here. You are cordially invited to take advantage of that option. However, If you still wish to discuss THIS forum, please take my advice in my last message and begin another thread for it. This is the last time I will ask you to do this. If any further message in this thread has ANYTHING at all in it other than facts YOU know about the original subject of this thread, or other than OPINIONS of yours about the original subject, it will merely be deleted as being inflammatory subject matter. I am beginning to suspect you are just a troll, and every message you make only supports my forming opinion of your intents. |
| Tom Chambers |
Re: Isis Reptiles (Bad Guy)
Posted At 12:35:58 03/15/2001 I have not personally dealt with Mr. Stuarsky. I HAVE personally dealt with Mike Madec at ISIS and in MY experience he is honest and straight forward and his animals are of high quality. Just MY experience and .02 TC - TC Reptile |
| John Waters |
Re: Isis Reptiles (Bad Guy)
2418.html Posted At 01:37:15 04/09/2001 i am not bashing any dealers here, but i just needed to throw my 2 cents in as well...as far as the webmaster being at fault for what is said on this forum, you are way out of line, sanchez...what john staursky said was an actual complaint, be it true or false...i feel it is up to the READERS of this forum to use their judgement in a situation like this, hearing both sides of the story, to figure out who is screwing who...and given how you pointed out just how easily you said it was to see who was the bad guy and who was the good guy, then the readers will also notice it and will just as easily be able to choose based on how they feel...so shut up and let us decide...the webmaster has done a LOT simply opening a blacklist up and i think you're unappreciative of that...he never had to do this, he only cares about us and doesn't want us to get ripped off...and he's doing an awesome job of managing this board...yet you're criticizing him for wanting us to go by his opinion and his opinion alone? let us make our own decisions, which, like i said, are so EASILY made in a situation like this...personally i haven't done business with either of these people, and i have no opinion on who's the bad guy. etc...i guess this will get deleted but i'm just hoping people will see this in the stay it is here just to ignore people like you, sanchez, who try to force their own opinions upon others thanks John |