| Author | Subject: Need some input about a problem |
| jimi | Posted At 20:28:54 03/19/2001
I purchased two Het for Albino balls from a large breeder along with 5 females I never sexed the animals because I trusted the person I got them from! and still do, mistakes happen, I have been breeding them in groups, now I find that one of the Females is a Male, I have three females gravid and I don't know if the Hets did it or it was the Normal Male? now I will have to raise the baby's for two years to find out if they are Possible Hets or just plane Normal's with no chance for Albino! what should I do? what is fair for something like this? should I forget it or what? what would you do? |
| hardcore reptiles |
Re: Need some input about a problem
Posted At 21:30:16 03/19/2001 i would contact the person you dealt with and camly disscus the problem.the two of you may be able to come to a agrement on this issue with out any problems.try that route first. about the babies,if you are honest and reasonable about price and possiblity i see no problem with sales.it may be possible that the buyer gets a real good deal or if not at least a nice snake. craig g |
| George Maloney |
Re: Need some input about a problem
Posted At 22:12:48 03/19/2001 Let me see if I understand this correctly: Your intentions were to breed two het for albino ball pythons to 5 normal females. Correct? One of the females wound up being a male, and might have bred with the 4 actual females. Seems to me, that since each baby from the resultant breeding of a het animal to a normal animal has only a 25 percent chance of being het for Albino, there is very little decrease in the odds by having a normal male in the mix. 25 percent is kind of a long shot if you are intending to charge more for them than you would a normal animal. Secondly, how will you be able to tell the Possible Hets from the Normals in two years? This only males sense if you have a full albino male to breed to the females to find out if they are het for albino, and in that case, once your male reaches maturity, all of you het and possible het males will be basically worthless to you anyway. Quite frankly, what you are doing sounds so much of a long shot to get possible het offspring that I would be very reluctant to contact the person you bought them from about it. You should have been the one to verify the sex of them before you began the breeding. That would have been the time to approach him about a problem and saved yourself some grief. |
| Jimi |
ok
Posted At 22:57:18 03/19/2001 If you breed a True het to a normal it's 50% poss so for every 6 baby's 3 will be Hets, that's 9 or so hets I have three gravid females I plan to keeping all females to breed back to the male Het, now there's a normal in the picture I am not sure of the out come? I know I should have all Poss Hets not Poss- Poss Hets, and as far as sexing I do not have a set of probes so I went on trust! |
| George Maloney |
Re: Need some input about a problem
Posted At 23:53:07 03/19/2001 Oops! Your right. But that's a 50 percent chance ANY one of the offspring will be het for albino, not 50 percent of the offspring will definitely be het. In reality, the true number of hets you will come up with will be a number between 'none' and 'all'. Sounds to me like you need to invest in a set of probes. How long ago did you get those animals from the guy? I've heard of people buying babies or juveniles and not finding out about them being improperly sexed until they attempted to breed them. In a case like that, far too much time would have elapsed to go back to the guy about his error and expect him to do anything about it. |
| Jimi |
Re: Need some input about a problem
Posted At 01:30:13 03/20/2001 I got them last May, if they were babys I could just pop them, I got them as adults, I just don't know what is fair, or should I just shut up about it? |
| Tim (Southampton Herps) |
Re: Need some input about a problem
Posted At 05:40:38 03/20/2001 To start with anyone who is breeding snakes should own a set of probes. I personally would never buy hets. from someone I didn't know and trust. It's almost been a year since you purchased them I'd think it's a little late to complain now. The time for voicing a greivance was when you purchased them and that comes back to the not having probes problem. Even the best in the business make sexing mistakes you should be prepared to check behind them. |
| Jimi |
Thanks
Posted At 18:13:28 03/20/2001 I emailed the person I got the ball from, he said he was sorry for the mix up! it was on both part! him and mine! now the question he is asking is what would I like him to do? What is fair? I do not want to ask too much, I like this person, and I don't want to ask to little I spent $800.00 on a project that is all missed up now? I could use a little help guys! |
| Jordan Russell |
Re: Need some input about a problem
Posted At 19:45:44 03/20/2001 Have him trade that male for a female and sell the babies as what they are possibly possible hets. I wouldn't sell the males for more than the market value of $50ea. the females at maybe $100ea. Look at it as a mistake and a lesson learned and on top of that a year wasted breeding. thats just my opinion though... Jordan |
| Jeff Clark |
Re: Need some input about a problem
Posted At 00:03:05 03/22/2001 Jimi, . I have bought missexed snakes from some of the biggest names in the business. It does not upset me that this happened. Breeding snakes is a longterm project. An extra snake of one sex or the other can always be paired up with an oposite sex partner at some time in the future. I have probably sold a few missexed snakes too. Sexing snakes whether it is by probing or popping is not an exact science. You should have verified the sex of the snakes soon after you got them. I agree with the other people who say this mistake is yours as much as the sellers. Perhaps the seller should trade you a female for the male. BTW, how do you now know that the snake is a male? Jeff |
| Rich Zuchowski |
Re: Need some input about a problem
Posted At 13:54:42 03/22/2001 The real problem with sexing snakes is that every method we use is attempting to prove a negative. In other words, we are trying to prove that it is NOT a male, and sometimes fail to prove it conclusively. When we pop the hemipenes, if we can't get them to pop, we did not prove it is a male, therefore it must be a female. When we probe, the probes did not go into the hemipenal pockets very far, so it apparently is not a male and must be a female. Just eyeballing the taper of the tail, we think that the tail doesn't appear to taper very quickly so it must not be a male. The only foolproof way to prove that a snake is a female is when it lays eggs. Any other method must be considered as suspect and subject to error. When I sex my snakes, I ALWAYS mark it in pencil. |