| Author | Subject: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys |
| nikki penberty | Posted At 23:07:37 05/25/2001
yesterday i ask for this forum opinion on dave lawson and his snakes.this is the only bad thing i got,a e-mail from kris at blue grass herps:Subj: Dave Lawson Inquiry Date: 5/25/01 10:33:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time From: BdybldKris To: DaneFunnygirl Nikki, I purchased an albino ghost burmese from him this past December and she was totally misrepresented. I talked to Dave extensively on the phone and he described her as 12' and she was 8'. She came in with a respiratory infection so bad that she was blowing mucous out her mouth and gaping. I made the mistake of trying to treat her rather than send her back. I really didn't think she'd make it being shipped back anyway. She died 2 months later after various injections of Amikacin and constant monitoring. It was very sad not only because I lost $5,000, but also because she was a unique animal. I would personally suggest staying away from him unless you can get guarantees in writing. He's nice enough to talk to on the phone, but if you watch you can usually catch him changing his story. I noticed this while negotiating the ghost burm. Facts would change. They were small points, but I never felt comfortable. He's had other rare animals for sale, but I'll never purchase from him again unless I can see it first. This is just a word of warning. I didn't post it on the Board because I don't want to start an argument. This has been my experience and it obviously wasn't the best. Just be very careful if you deal with him. Most of the animals he proclaims are his actually belong to other people. He just adds money on top of them. Good luck. Kris after reading this i contacted dave and told him of this and he ask that we come over and talk,which we did.i was told that kris never said a word about the snake being sick or short dave then showed me a photo of the snake with him in the photo now understand dave is over 6'-2" and the snake had to be at least 11'-6" next we were shown a copy of blue grass herps web page that was dated 3/2001 [i was told the copy was made to show dave's web designer how he wanted his photos shown]and on the site kris talks of the female 12' ghost albino burms he had gooten and a male with the same pattern and color [remember this is about a month after kris said she died]and that he was going to change the name from ghost albino to "snow burms" and they are the only pair now we looked at blue grass herps web page that was last up dated 5/11/01 at 1:07: Burmese Pythons We will have several morphs available, but our main emphasis is on our SNOW Burms. We have what is believed to be the only PAIR in captivity!! Both are stunning animals and we hope to have offspring in 2002. this is like 3 months after the female died and i ask you can you breed a dead snake?the next thing dave did was walk us over to his filing cabnets and started pulling out bills of sale,inportation permits and a client list [people that he sold to]and after readind he proved that he indeed owns all the snakes he has and sells,next he had us pick randomly [sp] and call 10 people that has bought snakes from him and not one said a bad word then we got a treat a tour of his facility i would love to tell you what we saw but we are shorn to stay quiet.i did however ask him why kris would lie and the answer came quick,in march kris wanted to buy a special retic from dave and dave told him no,dave then showed me 2 e-mails from kris not once was anything said about the ghost albino [snow burm] being sick or small only that kris wanted to give dave $5,500 for the retic.well i bought $10,000 worth of snake from dave today and was given his standard warrenty.i walked away know that kris lied and almost cost me my snake and that you can not trust to many people in the herp world.it is people like kris that are driving this hobby into ruin,do to envey/jeolicy [sp] this is only my opinion.one think that i did find funny was that dave never said a bad word about kris after hearing and reading what he said,he only ask if we would give a statement to his attorny on tuesday....we did agree,people like kris need to be shown for thier true colors. |
| nikki penberty |
Re: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys
3740.html Posted At 23:15:22 05/25/2001 rich z. i do not mean to be a smart a$$ but this is the second time i posted this[you deleted the first.this post follows the rules...please let this one stay.thank nikki -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NOTICE!! I have gotten several requests via email to delete messages from this forum that one or more people found unflattering. All of these requests have been refused, even though some did seem a bit irate and threatening. Please note that I reserve the right to publish such email in the appropriate threads in this forum. Anyone sending me these types of messages specifically give up the right or expectation that this correspondence will remain private. I am not inclined to just delete messages or threads at a whim. There are certain rules I set up about posting that I will try to enforce, and those messages that flaunt those rules are certainly subject to being removed. But messages that are within the constraints of what the forum has been designed for, whether flattering or not to someone, will have to remain. Otherwise I would be bombarded with requests to delete any message that someone found offensive or they just disagreed with. It would put me in the position of having to be a judge in these matters and try to determine whom is right and whom is wrong. I do not intend to do that, nor can I, without direct personal experience in the situations. Hell, look at the thread where I came under attack! Of course I was upset when I read this. On my own message board no less! But I would have been the supreme hypocrite if I had deleted it as soon as I read it, now wouldn't I? Yeah, I don't like the fact that someone just browsing through the forum is going to see that heading "Rich at SerpenCo (very bad guy)", but that's just the way it has to be. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
| Webmaster |
Re: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys
3744.html Posted At 09:21:11 05/26/2001 nikki - your previous post lacked a full name and email address. That's the reason it was deleted. Please note the warning right above the area where you type in your name in a new message. I had hoped red text would make it easier to notice. |
| Adam Mazur |
Re: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys
3745.html Posted At 09:21:25 05/26/2001 The Fact that Dave was never informed about the snakes misreprisentation(sp) Is alarming. I have seen Dave's photopoint, and that snake looked very close to 12' to me. Also I know Kris had purchased another female High White Albino, this may be what he is talking about? And Kris calling these snakes Snow is I think very wrong. All of these animals are W/C and it is almost if not impossible for an Albino to mate with a Axthantic or Anerthrystic, produce double hets and then the two double hets producing. I think HE is now misrepresenting his animals. Adam |
| nikki penberthy |
Re: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys
3746.html Posted At 09:52:07 05/26/2001 i know that he got a male high white from i man in californa but not a female.this in for came from lawson as well.both of these ghost albinos are at least 90% to 95% white with only a very fine line of white,all of this points to the fact that kris/blue grass herps is not telling the truth about the female being dead,my opinion.but instead only said this not knowing that i was going to confront dave lawson with it,that is why he never posted it on the forum!!!!!he only wanted to ruin a sale for lawson.... |
| Adam Mazur |
Re: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys
3747.html Posted At 10:08:11 05/26/2001 Here is the female I am talking about: http://www.kingsnake.com/forum/burmese/messages/92.html I agree with you, the fact that he did not want other people to read his reply to you suggests something is going on. Dave has beautiful snakes, and i am sorry he is/was being treated unsfairly, just because Dave did not wish to sell him an animal. It is very childish. Adam |
| Ken Harbart |
Re: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys
3749.html Posted At 11:45:04 05/26/2001 Andy, there are two misconceptions that need to be addressed here... Firstly, the term "snow" is subjective. It is a term given to a particular appearence, and not necessarily an animal that is homozygous for both anerythrism and amelanism. Any animal that is predominantly white can technicallu be referred to as a snow. The same holds true for "ghost", "sunglow", etc. They are terms applied to a particular physical appearance, and not necessarily genetic background. If its the case that Kris is misrepresenting these burms by referring to them as "snow", then we have a much bigger dillema on our hands- who is misrepresenting "sunglows"? Is it the corn snake breeders, or the boa breeders? On to the second point...the privacy of the reply can be indicative of something, or more likely nothing at all. Many emails are exchanged "behind-the-scenes" between posters on this board regarding inquiries. |
| nikki penberty |
Re: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys
3750.html Posted At 12:04:09 05/26/2001 andy that animal is no breeder and will never produce anything in 2002,and kris still talks about the "hugh" pair that he has.ken is right in saying that kris can name them whatever he wants,but it is the fact that the male he got from californa and the female from lawson were well known snakes and already had the name "ghost albino" that is like buying a albino burm and renaming it a "candycane" the only reason anyone would do this is to mislead people into thinking that they "kris/bluegrass herps" discovered it and not the first owner of the male and lawson....it is a lie and it is wrong!!!!!!my opinion.i have been told that i am allowed to let a cat out of the bag....lawson imported 1.1 "GHOST ALBINO BURMS" that are almost completly white [95% to 99% and he is waiting on eggs to hatch and kris knew about this pair before he stated he had the only pair....another non-truth |
| Corey Estill |
Re: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys
3764.html Posted At 22:06:32 05/26/2001 I normally don't post here unless I feel something needs to be said. I personally have seen ALL of Kris's snakes in his collection and was there with bells on the day that the "Ghost Albino" from Dave Lawson came in. I was expecting this awesome animal to be everything we had heard of. When I arrived at Kris's house and saw how SMALL this animal actually was and what a aweful URI it had I was very unimpressed. I do not know what went on between Kris and Dave over this matter as that was between them and none of MY buisness. I do know, however, that Kris does have a pair of very white burms that I to would call snow. As far as we knew they where the only ones that looked like they did. There is no way for anybody to keep tabs on all the animals imported daily. Also if anybody has ever tried to keep up with a web page you will find that unless that is your full time job you can't update it daily. The male "Snow" that Kris has looks nothing like the "Ghost Albino" did. The male Kris recieaved from California is, in my opinion, 90% white and should be called snow as well as the female he just recieaved recently. I have never talked to Dave Lawson so I'm not saying he is this or that. I'm just stating the facts that I have. Corey Estill |
| Randilyn H. |
Re: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys
3768.html Posted At 08:53:09 05/27/2001 I've heard varying things concerning Dave, good, bad, extremely bad and then the extremely good. I'm his webmaster, and for payment he sent me two snakes. One was an albino burm, and it came exactly as he described it, 6ft long with some rat bite scars from the previous owner before Dave. The second snake was a normal burmese python, but Dave constantly told me its "het for emerald" which isnt a proven morph and I'll prolly never get anything out of that. But still, the snakes I've gotten from him were healthy, and beauitful at that. I've talked to him many many times on the phone, and he's allways been straight forward. He wont sell to certain people because he doesnt like how they treat their animals, or where they keep them, or how they plan on spending the animal (i.e. selling right away, or breeding, or whatever) I think he has his snakes in best interest.. I know much about this whole Snow burm thingy.. but I still think Dave is generally a good guy in his dealings. |
| BLUEGRASS HERP - Kris Mays |
Re: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys
3771.html Posted At 10:08:07 05/27/2001 Let me start by saying I can't believe I've suddenly become the bad guy for losing a $5000 animal and trying to warn someone to go look before they buy. I have nothing against Dave or his animals and have never asked for any type of refund. The basis of my email to Nikki was an attempt to be nice and warn to go look at the animals if they were considering spending a large amount of money. On the ghost albino.....I think my email that was posted above tells the story very well. If Dave imported 1.1 maybe the male is pictured in his photo. The female that was sent to me was placed in a 6' Neodesha and was no more than 8-9'. It's pretty easy to tell when she's going all the way down the back and no more than 2' after.... I told Dave when she came in she was too small to breed and I'd have to wait until next year. (It was told verbally on the phone and I also have the old emails dated.) I had no problem with that...I wanted the animal. I also told him about her respiratory infection. (Again, verbal and email) He said it probably happened in the box during shipping. I already knew it was too advanced to have happened in the box, but I made the decision to try to treat the animal and kept her. If I were going to go after Dave I would have sent her back then. It was my decision and I'm the one who ended up paying for it. I never posted on here that Dave was a bad guy and I don't think my email said it either. I just told them to be wary and go look at the animals in question before they bought them. I sent Nikki the email because I saw NO reason to air this...It has no real bearing for a public forum. As for the "Snow" burms it has nothing to do with the anery/albino genetics. It has everything to do with their appearance. My pair are 90-95% white with no pattern. AND NO, THE ALBINO GHOST IS NOT THE FEMALE!! My female came from Terry Lilley and is 9', feeding on rabbits, and should breed this next season. When, Nikki, did you become an expert on MY animals. You don't know me and have never seen what I have...Don't tell me what I will or won't produce when you've never seen the animals!! Again, I have nothing against Dave and originally thought I was emailing a mature person. I was only trying to help them out. Go look before you spend a large amount of money with anyone, including Dave. What happened with the ghost albino is all true and I'm sorry that she died. I take all the responsibility for what happened to her after I got her because I'm the one who tried to save her. She was a unique animal and I was going to breed her to a male that Bill Green has to see if they were genetic. She had nothing to do with the "Snow" project. But I'm the bad guy for losing $5000 and trying not to smear someone in public....GOOD WORK Nikki....You're pretty intelligent. |
| Mickey(TLK) |
Re: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys
3773.html Posted At 12:57:27 05/27/2001 Kris Allthough I have never dealt with you or dave, and really have nothing of substance to add to the thread, I am sorry for the loss of an extraordinary animal.Good luck with your other projects. Mickey Hinkle The Lizard King Reptiles |
| Bill Horn, Briarpatch Herps |
Re: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys
3774.html Posted At 13:09:51 05/27/2001 Hello, i myself have had many deals go through with Kris Mays and have known the gentleman for several years now. ive learned from both personal experiance and word of mouth that Kris does what he says he will and honestly represents every animal he deals with. rather his deal with Dave was soured for his views of what he recieved or Daves views of what he sent isnt really the issue. i believe both men feel honestly about whats happened and do need to rectify their problems. what i do feel is pretty damn low is the fact someone offers help without starting a public lynching and its automatically turned into a witch hunt. seems to me the purpose of this thread was more to start and fan a flame war than to get useful, self-protective information that could potentially save your own butt. this kind of attack against someone offering their story of a deal gone wrong is EXACTLY why most people who get screwed are afraid to speak up..........because in the end, someones story is twisted, confused, facts lost or just interfered with and EVERYONE involved becomes the crook and dishonest one. perhaps from now on none should offer information and we sit back to watch everyone get screwed over for simple fact its safer than sticking our necks out for a stranger. GREAT PLAN folks!....keep up the good work. regards, Bill Horn Briarpatch Herps |
| John Hedger |
Re: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys
3779.html Posted At 15:50:46 05/27/2001 Upon reading Nikki's first post I remember feeling both surprised and appalled that he would post publicly an email that, obviously, Kris had mean't to be kept private. Does anyboby else have a problem with that? I think possibly the webmaster should have some ruling on the etiquette of posting private emails. I can understand such posting in some situations. Say, if the email is shown as proof of a broker's bad attitude or bad dealing practices,etc. But this seemed to be sretching it a bit too far to me. I just remember feeling a bit shocked when I read Nikki's post the other night and If I were Kris, I would have some problems with that breach of privacy! John Hedger |
| nikki penberthy |
Re: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys
3781.html Posted At 16:25:08 05/27/2001 i have been sitting here reading all the post about the good/bad points of the deal between dave and kris,i have also just finished reading the two post saying that i was wrong for posting anything about kris/blue grass herps and the e-mail he wrote me.well i would like to let everyone know why i did this,in the begining i ask this forum for info on recent dealing that they had with dave lawson in return i get a e-mail from kris[attached in first pot by me]in this e-mail kris stated that dave changed his story.sent a sick snake and misrepresented the snakes size.he goes on to say that instead of doing the right thing and returning the snake he diside to stay quiet and treat it him self and the snake dies.these are the fact as told to me via e-mail from kris.this snake reached kris 12/00 and it has been said to have died in 2/01.now to answer you questions on why i posted that kris/blue grass herps are very bad guys that is simple.....he lies,that is something that the herp world needs to stop,dishonest dealers are ruining it for all of us,as for why i posted the e-mail well that to is simple it was typed by kris and it to has non-truths in it and i wanted everyone to see what was written so that way he can not deny writing it it is proof.if you go up to kris's earlier post he is recanting but you have to deside read the e-mail then read his poet [above] to me it seems like he [kris] is changing his story.....my opinion.the proof is there for you to read kris sayiny the snake was 8' instead of 12' i have seen photos the snake had to be close to 12' and at least 95% white.you make up your own mind,i posted about a bad herp dealer and that is what this forum is for.. |
| Ken Harbart |
Re: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys
3782.html Posted At 17:16:41 05/27/2001 John, technically speaking, Nikki has violated US copyright law, as ammended by the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998 by posting the email in its entirety. However, its been done so often by other posters that to single one person out would be hypocritical, although Kris could successfully pursue both that infringement, and the blatent defamation in a civil court if he so desired. The text of that email does show us that Kris conducted himself in a professional manner. He didn't say anything to the tune of "Dave is a thief; avoid him at all costs", nor did he recommend that Nikki not purchase from Dave. On the contrary, he told of his experience, and gave some cautionary advice that should be exercised when purchasing any animal. Kris' email was based on a firsthand experience, whereas Nikki's post is based on hearsay, misinterpretaion, and misinformation. Of the principles involved in this thread, the only one that I view as a "bad guy" is Nikki- for attempting to tarnish someone's professional reputation based upon misconceptions and misinformation. Quite frankly, posting here was none of Nikki's business- Dave is a grown man, capable of posting for himself if he felt he was wronged. The whole matter between him and Kris does not concern Nikki in any way. Touching on what I said earlier, renaming a morph does NOT constitute fraud or deception. If Kris feels that "snow" is a descriptive enough term for his animals, then that's his prerogative. If you think that constitutes someone being a "bad guy", then you'd better include some of the most respected corn and ball python breeders on your list, because morphs get renamed all the time. Its not done to give the impression that they originated it; its done because they feel the new name is more descriptive of the animal. |
| Ken Harbart |
Re: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys
3783.html Posted At 17:44:53 05/27/2001 Its all fine and dandy that you saw a picture if the snake Nikki, but that still doesn't change the fact that Corey, a herper who has earned a reputation beyond reproach, saw it in person. The bottom line- by posting something about something of which you have NO firsthand knowledge, you're basing your assumption on misinterpretation and misinformation at best. God help the next person that tries to let you know about their experience with someone. |
| Jordan Russell |
Re: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys
3785.html Posted At 18:51:30 05/27/2001 Just thought I would note my experiences. I have done one deal with Kris Mays and none with Dave Lawson. Kris was very professional and I would not hesitate to do business with him. I personally don't understand where this post originally came from as Kris was just trying to be helpful. As far as Dave Lawson goes, I have never talked with him or emailed or done business with him. YET I do remember all of the stuff on the forums regarding him stealing the barkers photos taking off their logos then swearing up and down he had just taken the photos himself a few hours ago of the animal. I would NEVER do business with someone that would lie about something so petty. Just my $0.02 Jordan |
| nikki penberthy |
Re: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys
3786.html Posted At 20:02:39 05/27/2001 ken,you speak of hersay,misinterpretation,misinformation and that kris never said anything bad about dave well i would like to know what e-mail you read?lets start with the easy stuff like saying the snake was misrepresented and saying that dave lawson kept changing his story in other words he called the man a lier he also said "i would personally stay away from him unless you can get guarantees in writing" do you or kris give written guarantees to every buyer?i bet not but by stating it like that is only meant to lead a person into thinking that dave lawson is bad,then he goes on to state that lawson is lying about owning the snakes he has by saying "most of the animals he [meaning lawson]proclaims are his actually belong to other people.he just adds money on top of them."again implying that lawson is a lyer.now ken i am sure that you will come back with a reason why it is alright for kris to do this and how it is professional of him but the fact remains [this is only my opinion] that kris tried to mislead me and misinform me so that i would not do the deal with lawson,bottom line.....as far as me post the entire e-mail that is tolally legal sinse it was not copy written he sent it to me freely and it became my personally property to do whatever i wish... jordon,as far as the whole photo thing everone remembers it and most i sure remember dave barker writing a post clearing that up. ken,why is it ok for kris to tell people of this dealings with lawson but it is wrong for me to tell of my dealings with kris?everything that i have posted has been based on facts shown to me in the form of paperwork and photos and it all shows that i was lied to by kris and i put it all up for the world to see and now i am a bad person for doing it and this whole time i thought that was what this forum was for.i did ask dave lawson to post his side along with the facts and all he said was "why,it is all a big circle of friends and if you say something about one of them them all jump on you"and guess,he is right!!! |
| Ben Siegel |
Re: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys
3796.html Posted At 22:59:22 05/27/2001 i have done business with Kris at bluegrass herps, and had no problems whatsoever--he was honest and did what he said he was gonig to when he said he was. I have never done business with Dave Lawson, but have met him, and he seem to be a decent guy. But plain and simple niki-do nto post an inqury on here if you do not want to get a response. If somebody responded good about dave you would have been happy about it, but since somebody posted a negative experience, you cut his throat!--that is really nasty, and he didn't even post it publicly and you have the nerve to just print up here for everyone to see, just as kris did not want. That is wrong, plain and simple---if you did not agree with what kris had to say, fine, but don't cut him apart for responding TO YOUR INQUIRY FOR INFORMATION!!!!!!!!!!!!---you asked for and you got it |
| robin day |
ummm nikki
3798.html Posted At 23:39:21 05/27/2001 I have been reading this and i do not know either Kris or Dave howver here is a few things i would like to say.......I know when i sell or even trade an animal nikki ,that i do give a gaurentee...... if they want it in writing well i'll send it to them snail mail. It's not a problem and i know for a fact that many people as well do this, jordan russell in fact does this. This isnt something new, just something that "newbies" should be aware of. next, you posted these things, "... jordon,as far as the whole photo thing everone remembers it and most i sure remember dave barker writing a post clearing that up. ken,why is it ok for kris to tell people of this dealings with lawson but it is wrong for me to tell of my dealings with kris?" if you remember the whole photo thingy then why are you asking about any bad things about Dave, by now you should be able to make your own judgment. As far as Kris telling his dealings and you telling your dealings? Kris was trying to let someone know he had bad dealings with someone, without making a scene. He stated what he thought in an email to you about HIS PERSONAL dealings and "experience". and You are going a bit over board and sticking your nose into other peoples business, the only thing you know for sure is that an email was sent to you from Kris, because you ASKed for info about a person. You did not sell any snakes to Kris, nor were you there. you did not recieve them, nor were you there. yes, you heard a story and have heard both sides by now, however this was not your dealings, you wernt THERE. You have seen pics... well so have I of alot of animals just because you have seen a pic doesnt mean anything. i can you can or ANYONE can post pics and say what they want about them( dave im not saying your not telling the truth, just making a point ). If I were Dave i would be furious that you brought up this whole thing. because everyone is going to come out of the woodwork and comment (look at me LOL) and say maybe one lil thing happened to kris OR dave 20 years ago.. well that "bad" experience could kill a sell (so to speak)....... and these two men both deal in high priced animals, it the way they make a living. SO Nikki, its time to take your nose out of the guys a**es and go do something else and let THEM worry about it. thank you for listening- robin day |
| nikki penberthy |
Re: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys
3799.html Posted At 23:48:26 05/27/2001 i want to point something out....i am not upset because kris said negitive things about dave lawson it is the fact that everything that he said to me seems to be a load of lies that is why i posted that he [kris]is a bad guy i could not care less what he said about dave lawson he[dave] is a grown man and i am not his protector,i only posted that to let all know that kris lied to me and if he will lie to me he will lie to everyone.i never said that his animals are bad or that every deal he does goes sour all i pointed out was proof that everything that he wrote to me was a lie and this hobby does not need it.so everyone stay focused on kris not telling the truth in this matter that is the point i am making.... |
| robin day |
Re: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys
3800.html Posted At 23:57:40 05/27/2001 how do you know he lied to you? from what someone else said? not your own FIRST hand experience? an in your quote "everything that he said to me seems to be a load of lies" yes from an OUTSIDERS point of veiw, and thats the only evidence you have. stop this stuff and let Kris and Dave work this out (if they even have a problem with it)> you say Kris Lies? well that is hearsay from someone else, who do you know for a fact it is? because someone told it to you right? my point exactly -robin day |
| Ken Harbart |
Re: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys
3801.html Posted At 00:34:28 05/28/2001 How exactly did he "lie" to you? He told you that the snake was 2/3's its advertised size, and was shipped with a respiratory infection. These points are VERIFIED by Corey, who as I stated before, has demonstrated himself time and again, to be above reproach. As for facts changing, Kris isn't the first person that I've heard that from. But of course, that would ring us back into the realm of hearsay, so that's all I'll mention about that. Kris' last comment about Dave not having the animals on hand was probably based on the fact that Dave previously gave everyone the impression that he is brokering them. Yes Nikki, someone is lying, but its NOT Kris... Oh, and you'd better recheck the law before you claim that its legal to post a private email in its entirety on a message board. The DMCA of 1998 says otherwise. ALL emails are in fact copyrighted by the sender. Likewiase, it would also be a violation of copyright law to post someone else's newsgroup message here. Legally, you can paraphrase what an email says, or even post one or two quotes from it, but you cannot legally repost it in its entirety. I was planning on letting that drop as a non-issue, but you chose to bring it back up. |
| Seth Blundell |
Re: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys
3806.html Posted At 03:42:33 05/28/2001 I have done business with Kris Mays and he is an honest and professional person. I have seen this type of thing on many forums on other websites. A person asks a question, when someone responds with an answer that is not what the asker wants to hear they attack the person who was nice enough to answer their question. If you don't want an answer, Don't Ask. Seth |
| nikki penberthy |
Re: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys
3808.html Posted At 09:37:28 05/28/2001 i think that it is funny that the only thing that you guys keep harping on is the things that have nothing to do with the facts,did kris get the animal and it blew a bubble i do not know that is why i have not said anything about that,was that snake 8' or 12' well from 6or7 photos with people in them i personally looked at the snake was 12'that i do know but you all are skirting the facts and for whatever reason refuse to say "yes kris lied" and that is not the biggest thing it was the reason he lied that upsets me.i am not working off what i was told but on what i personally seen in black and white that proves without question that kris said in the e-mail was lies i am not taking kris's word over dave or vise versa kris made statements to me in a e-mail and dave showed me documentation that proved that kris was lying and for that reason i posted kris as a bad guy.i do not have my nose in dave and kris's dealing and as far as corey goes he is on of kris's very best friends that is also very well known.maybe i sould tell you all that i have been in the reptile hobby/business for a long time and i know how it works but ben siegel seems to be the only one on this forum that is not bias and that is why he has everyones respect as for the rest of you you have selectively raed everything that i have posted and seemed to forgot the parts that prove what i am saying and have only focused on a "i"that was not dotted or a "t"that was not crossed.i will admit that may i sould not have posted the e-mail in whole but if i did not everyone would say that kris never wrote it.adam mazur another person who seems to at least take in all the infomation that has been put in front of him and make a non-bias opinion [thank you]so take a lession from ben and adam and then post your opinion based on the facts in front of you if kris lied or not,kris's and dave's dealings with each other asideposting the e-mail legal or not aside just the question of was the snake 8' or 12'?does dave own these snakes or broker them?did dave misrepresent the snake or not?and does the e-mail from kris lead a reasonable person to believe that no one should do busniess with dave lawson .kris and dave seem to be alright with each other since kris tried to buy a albino retic from dave after the ghost albino was to have died and dave has not said anything bad about kris and i think that is being very professional on both thier parts. |
| BLUEGRASS HERP - Kris Mays |
Re: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys
3810.html Posted At 10:51:17 05/28/2001 Nikki, This is the last thing I'll post on this matter because I really don't see any merit in this. You said that Dave imported 1.1 ghost albino burms....I received the female...She WAS 8-9', not 12'....Don't you think it's quite possible that the MALE was the animal in the picture???? I really don't know..I've seen some of the pics too and they were the primary reason I purchased the animal. I'm just telling you that she was only 8-9'...No more. I'm not really sure why I would lie about any of this and I have no quarrels ongoing with Dave to work out. If you'd read my post above I stated that I made the decision to keep the animal. I take full responsibility. I didn't "keep quiet" about the fact it was smaller than I was lead to believe or that the animal was sick when it arrived. I emailed and spoke to Dave directly about both points. You're incorrect, I didn't purchase an albino retic from him, but I would have no problem dealing with Dave again if I could arrange to pick up the animal or animals I was purchasing. When I said he doesn't own many of the animals he offers for sale I was only saying that he brokers many of his animals and doesn't always have direct access. Some of the animals that I was interested in before were in other countries so there would be no way for you to go see them. Again, I'm not worried about any of this, but I don't like being called a liar. I would have nothing to gain by lying about any of this. You asked for information and I attempted to give you my account of what happened in this one situation. I'm glad you went and saw the animals you were interested in and I hope everything works out for you. You don't have to worry about any civil suit because you copied my email. If anything, that showed everyone I was not trying to do any thing wrong. Kris |
| nikki penberthy |
Re: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys
3826.html Posted At 17:42:31 05/28/2001 kris,you are misunderstanding what i said,so let me clear this up.when you bought the female ghost albino [which is the snake i seen in the photos]dave had another pair that are 95% to 98% white,so what i am saying is that he sold you a female and kept 1.1.i saw this pair the other day. |
| Krystalline Holoun-Field |
Re: Bluegrass/unsolicited advice
3835.html Posted At 20:51:58 05/28/2001 I just visited this forum for the first time tonight and am amazed at the venom (no pun intended) flying between some folks here! I know, it's easy to just waltz in and comment-but it also provides an outsider's overview of the entire progression of events without the colour of animosity or other emotion. From out here it seems like some people with similar interests are really caught up in cogs of self-defense and are falling on their swords because of it. No one is emerging as the virtuous defender of truth and no one is appearing the lying (expletive). Having been (in the past) on forums that got seriously heated, could I make a suggestion? Sometimes if a situation has gotten to the point where you either feel victimized or pushed into fighting, taking it to email and only posting on the forum on a set schedule helps. That way you can communicate one-to one, which makes you really look at what you're ticked off about with that particular person, and not just taking out all your frustrations at once. And posting on a schedule (i.e., once a day) lets you 'sleep on it' or whatever-just gives you time to breathe a little and ask if you really want to read what you wanted to write-at that moment- in print the next day. Or you can ask someone to moderate for you-I've done that in the past and sometimes it turns out the whole fight has been because of an innocent misunderstang, and catfights ended up as tailgate parties at the next college football game. I don't always follow my own recommendations, but when I have, it's been far more rewarding on a selfish level and SERIOUSLY more positive on a group/forum level. I know no one asked for my opinion. But there it is anyway, for whatever it's worth. Looks like it could be a really cool forum without the 'he said-she said' stagnancy. K |
| robin day |
ok nikki
3838.html Posted At 22:06:17 05/28/2001 nikki, i just saw your last post and refuse to add anything else. why? well i now do understand that your lack of intellegence prevents that ie. spelling and grammar usage. thank you- robin day |
| nikki penberthy |
Re: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys
3844.html Posted At 05:44:16 05/29/2001 Robin Day,now i understand i am a bad person for posting this not because I'm wrong but for my grammer/speling use but to tell you the truth i did not know that there was going to be a test.Thank you for clearing that up.I have been sitting here wondering why Ken and tourself have been posting on this matter anyway Ken or yourself know or have had dealings with either man know nothing of what we are talking about and as far as I can see have done nothing but fan the fire,So thank you for refusing to post anymore on this matter,I do not remember anyone ask for a teacher of a lawyer to join in. |
| Webmaster |
Re: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys
3852.html Posted At 07:56:23 05/29/2001 Please note that flame wars among participants in a thread are not appreciated. Any further messages continuing the bickering without adding substantially to the content of this thread will result in this thread being closed to further input. Thanks. |
| BLUEGRASS HERP - Kris Mays |
Re: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys
3856.html Posted At 10:50:33 05/29/2001 Again Nikki, you never saw the animal Dave sent me and it really wasn't anymore than 9' long. It was also very underfed and skinny. Yes, Corey Estill is a friend of mine, but he also SAW the animal. He picked her up at the airport for me. He saw how small she was and we were both disappointed that I wouldn't be able to breed her for another season. The "snow" burms did not come from Dave. The male came from California from Darby Cunningham and the female was purchased from Terry Lilley. Both can verify the purchase if it really makes any difference. You looked on my site and just assumed I was talking about the ghost. You were wrong. I still have no idea what premise you're working with...What would I possibly have to gain by lying about an animal that died? It's actually just a great loss to the herp world.... Kris |
| Matt Butler |
Re: blue grass herps/kris ......very bad guys
3864.html Posted At 15:05:48 05/29/2001 It's people like Nikki penberthy that make me want to quit this hobby all together. One question Nikki, just one! How can you sleep at night? after publicly trashing a breeders name, that put his hand out to you, and offered some kind advice that YOU requested! Can you answer that? Personally, reading this whole thing, knowing that Kris put his ass on the line for someone he doesnt even know, that says alot to me. I will buy from him in the future. |