| Author | Subject: I need opinions on this. |
| Jordan Russell | Posted At 21:30:23 07/18/2001
Hi Folks- I have a question on morals. I did a trade last october with a fellow. I gave: 1.1 '99 Suriname Red tailed boas, from Peter Watson. 0.1 Captive Born yearling Guyanan Red Tail, and I think 0.2 adult Solomon Island Ground boas that were LTC I think there might have been something else in there but it was quite a while ago. One of the solomon islands was nearly 5' as thick as a soft ball and had recently gone off food. I believed she was gravid. I told this to the person but never said she IS, just that I am fairly certain she is but I have never bred ground boas. Anyhow that went in a trade for 1.1 sub adult Croc Monitors. Well just 2 days ago I recieved an email saying that the ground boa never dropped and if I don't give a reimbursement I will be reported to Jeff Barringer as a thief etc... This person wanted a list of animals I had for sale on kingsnake.com. I told him that he can report me if he feels that is neccesary but there is no way I am reimbursing him for an animal he bought 10 months ago because it never dropped babies and he saw something that caught his eye and wants for free. Am I way off here? I try to be fair with people. I have my terms posted on my web page which I can cut and paste here for anyone interested. This would not be something I guarantee to replace in accordance with my terms so I feel I am in the clear. Give me some advice? Take care, Jordan |
| Michael Gearino |
Re: I need opinions on this.
6019.html Posted At 21:45:17 07/18/2001 If you gave the info that she could possibly gravid, not definately, and the buyer knew this, then you have nothing to worry about. I agree totally with you! |
| Dan Mulleary |
Re: I need opinions on this.
6021.html Posted At 21:57:51 07/18/2001 Jordan goes far beyond most dealers to make his customers happy. All of his animals are honestly represented and pics are always part of a transaction. That guy is an idiot, need I say more? |
| Angela Dean |
Re: I need opinions on this.
6024.html Posted At 22:11:37 07/18/2001 Are you way off? Simple answer..NOPE! You said "possibly gravid" that means 50/50..turns out she wasn't. Tough! |
| Michael Mastison |
Re: I need opinions on this.
6027.html Posted At 22:14:22 07/18/2001 I'd say no worries Jordan. It sounds as though you gave him a good deal and he/she is just trying to get something for nothing.MM |
| Brian Oakley |
Re: I need opinions on this.
6028.html Posted At 22:23:02 07/18/2001 One should NEVER buy something from someone even if you did say she was gravid. Nature takes care of nature and things can change. This guy is nuts.......PERIOD! |
| Ciro Spina |
Re: I need opinions on this.
6030.html Posted At 22:39:27 07/18/2001 You have nothing to worry about as long as you saved your emails. |
| Jordan Russell |
Re: I need opinions on this.
6032.html Posted At 23:15:45 07/18/2001 I just recieved this from him.. I removed his name. Also the email I replied to him is at the bottom (this was the email he just replied to.) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 23:07:38 -0500 From: XXXX XXX@XXXXX.XXX Add To Address Book To: PythonProductions@user.kingsnake.com Subject: Re: ground boa -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FYI, I have talked with other people who you have lied to also and we are all going to submit complaints. If you fell I'm trying to get an animal you advertised then give me back the value in cash. You valued it at $350 remember. Trading me and animal that is cheaper would have been easier for you. You are going to make good on this Jordon. When you represent something that isn't true, it's called fruad. You have alot to learn young guy. I guess you're going to learn it the hard way. You'll be hearing from me real soon. Bank on it. XXX Jordan Russell wrote: > XXX- > > That deal was done nearly a year ago. If you had a problem I am sure you would have notified me alot sooner. That animal was NOT guaranteed gravid. She was thought to be gravid. If you feel the need to complain to Jeff Barringer I cannot stop you. Yet this is VERY pathetic to say the least. Just because you saw I had something you wanted and saw it as an oppurtunity to get it for free is totally ridiculous. > > == > > Jordan Russell > Orange, California > (714)771-5828 > http://pythonproductions.redtailboa.org/ > > Captive Bred: Pythons, Boas & Colubrids. |
| Jude Fitch {MiLadyDragonn} |
Subject: I need opinions on this.
6034.html Posted At 00:05:30 07/19/2001 ~Amazing!!! I thought I had heard them all but this one frosts the cake!! ( as well as my *ss..and probably alot of others!) Any idea how old this person is? (curiousity) ~It brings to mind a purchase I made a while ago involving a pair of Solomon Island skinks. The seller had gravid females for $150 and all others for $75. I had asked him to separate a 1:1 pair for awhile and see how they got along, as that is what I wanted. He agreed and we waited about a week or so. All went well and he shipped the skinks. ~When they arrived they were real beauties, but the female looked a little "heavy". Shortly after, I realized that the female was, indeed, gravid. I emailed the seller and asked him if he had noticed this. He said he had, shortly after he had isolated them for me...BUT...since we had agreed on a price, there was no way he was going to charge me more for her. ~This story is somewhat similar but in reverse. And this was not over 10 months but within 2 weeks time. Now, what would people have thought if he decided I owed him the extra for a gravid female? I shudder to think of the *&%*#@*&'s he would have thrown at him had he done that! He was actually glad I had gotten this extra bonus! Now THERE is a good man! ~This person YOU are dealing with classifies under my "Bonehead" category...for sure! No worries, he will be laughed out of any "court" or attorney's office should he actually be crazy enough to try to go that route. >>Still chuckling at the sheer audacity<< jude ps: (Blatant Plug!) The man I dealt with was Allen Roth of Reptile Kingdom, who also writes a column in Reptile Hobbyist magazine. http://www.reptilekingdom.com/ |
| Billy Fraser |
Re: I need opinions on this.
6038.html Posted At 00:43:21 07/19/2001 Jordan, This guy is nothing more than a crybaby who wants something for free. You said she may be possibly gravid, and that was the fact. Since she didn't drop any eggs, that proves what the term " possibly" means. Maybe or maybe not. Also, he can't even spell what he is calling you, a fraud ( fruad?) Bro, you have nothing to worry about. He can't do a thing. |
| Steven Brockschmidt |
Re: I need opinions on this.
6044.html Posted At 04:43:52 07/19/2001 I have dealt with Jordan in the past and the animals were always fairly represented with no surprises. Possibly gravid is just that, it's possible but not definite. Stick to your guns Jordan you are in the right. Brock |
| JERRY TRESSER |
Re: I need opinions on this.
6045.html Posted At 05:37:58 07/19/2001 Entering into a transaction does not mean that you have to be married to that person. The sale was FINAL, once both parties accepted the deal. Their might be a liability, but its limited to the agreed liability. Beyond that, its the buyers problem. This person is basically testing the waters to scare you. In actuallity, he does not have a chance in hell to receive anything from you, no should he. |
| Greg Riso |
Re: I need opinions on this.
6047.html Posted At 06:44:14 07/19/2001 There is no doubt this person is a complete idiot. I bought an Emerald Tree Boa at Herpauction that was said to be possibly gravid. The seller stated there was no guarantee but she appeared to be gravid. I bought the snake and took my chances and she turned out to not be gravid. I never questioned the seller concerning it. Not even an E-mail to him becuase I understood exactly what the situation was. It is unfortunate that some jerk will tarnish your reputation by writing Kingsnake. I wouldn't hesitate to deal with you though and from the sound of it everyone else here wouldn't either. Sorry you came across this bozo. They certainly are out there. |
| Adam Mazur |
Re: I need opinions on this.
6050.html Posted At 07:37:10 07/19/2001 What was the going rate for the boa then? Like he said $350? I think he said he wants his money back? And yet he got it for the price of a non gravid female? He still has the snake too right? I know if I for one had a definate gravid female I would probably sell it for more. Who knows maybe it was gravid and he is trying to get you for even more! Im not framiliar with boas, but wouldn't also be possible for a female to absoarb the babies? Maybe that is what she did. What would he have done if she dropped all slugs? Adam Mazur |
| Raven Johnson |
Re: I need opinions on this.
6057.html Posted At 11:22:08 07/19/2001 Add mine to the general concensus, the guy is a loser looking for a free ride. Possibly gravid does not mean actually gravid. It seems to me that he got the better deal and shouldn't complain now. Hopefully you saved any emails or written material. If not, I suggest to ALL breeders to save any receipts, letters and emails just to help prevent this kind of nonsense. Perhaps I'm a pessimist, but I believe in preparing for the worst case scenario. FWIW, the first time I bred my female bci I was sure she was 'pregnant' (didn't know gravid back then). She did the whole nine yards; went off feed, turned darker, got thick through the middle, shed, then nothing more and all returned to normal within a few months. Sometimes it works and sometimes not - that's just the way it goes. Even if we actually get lucky and our females are gravid, there is no guaranty that they will drop healthy live babies or viable eggs. It just doesn't work that way. Best of luck, Jordan. |
| JERRY TRESSER |
Re: I need opinions on this.
6059.html Posted At 13:44:55 07/19/2001 Just a final thought, Kingsnake has nothing to do with the sale other than act as a forum for advertising. I would not worry about Jeff Barringer. Iam sure he receives many of these complaints from a whole host of loose cannons. As always I would let the forum know whom this idiot is so that others can watch out for him. |
| Bill Horn, Briarpatch Herps |
Re: I need opinions on this.
6067.html Posted At 16:08:07 07/19/2001 even **IF** that animal was gravid if she was kept under bad conditions or stressed during shipment she could have easily reabsorbed the young. my advice to the guy is look elsewhere for freebies and handouts and quit looking for other people to do all his breeding projects for him. regards, Bill Horn Briarpatch Herps |
| Dawn Zielinski |
Opinion on Bill Gillingham Great Valley Serpentarium
6095.html Posted At 11:11:55 07/20/2001 I was just wondering if anyone has dealt with this gentleman before.. He seems pretty good in email, but after reading some posts here about other people dealing with fraud and such, I don't want to be suckered in. Thanks! |
| Raven Johnson |
Re: I need opinions on this.
6109.html Posted At 16:09:37 07/20/2001 Dawn, Which gentleman were you referring to? If it was Jordan Russell, who posted this thread, then you have nothing to worry about if dealing with him. Though I haven't bought anything personally, those that I know who have are thrilled with the animals and his customer service. Hope this helps. Raven |
| Neil Gubitz |
Re: I need opinions on this.
6122.html Posted At 19:10:41 07/20/2001 Jordan...YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!! Possible is possible!! You have NOTHING to feel concerned about, just the fact you DO feel concerned, says A LOT ABOUT YOU!!! Look, you can't please everybody, as you can see what I'm putting up with RIGHT NOW!! That's the problem when you listen to ONE SIDE of a FALSELY-TOLD story, and think that's the way it went down!?? Remember, there are 3 sides to every story....your version, his version, AND THE TRUTH!! So far, YOU'RE WINNING! I wouldn't HESITATE to do business with you AGAIN!! You are one of the most STRAIGHT-UP guys I've ever dealt with! And me being from NY...that says A LOT!!! |
| Sal Thomas |
Re: I need opinions on this.
6165.html Posted At 17:03:57 07/21/2001 Hey Jordo, FUGGEDABOUTIT!!!!....if youse want, me and a couple of mooks from the Bada Bing room will go have a talk with this f#$%ing guy...capish?...'cause your a friend of ours,pisan...just say da woid! JERSEY!!!!! Sal |
| Tricia Martin |
Re: I need opinions on this.
6178.html Posted At 21:56:55 07/21/2001 Firstly, in most areas of court, he would have needed to file his grievance using due diligence. A year later is definitely not showing due diligence. I definitely would not give him his money back. The other problem is what guarantee do you have that she did not drop and he was waiting until she regained the body weight before all this bs started? I know of one person who lent a female to a breeding program one year and was told that she did not take. He later say a picture of his female (same markings) giving birth in the guys photo album |
| Salvador Cruz |
Re: I need opinions on this.
6200.html Posted At 23:48:26 07/22/2001 That is a load of B.S. You are a cool guy dont give him a plate with fecal matter! All of the B.P's I purchased have eaten...all quality and I was told nothing but the truth. (2 non feeds and 2 feeds.) Dont let this bumhole make you feel sorry for him cause your nice, SKREW HIM! Laters Sal Cruz (LA) |