| Author | Subject: carrier theft??? anyone ever had this problem? |
| ROBERTA BYRD | Posted At 12:13:16 08/04/2001
This is a new one for me. I shipped out a $40 shipment containing 5 baby corns via airborne express on Thursday. I received an e-mail from the buyer stating that he only received 3 corns. I told him to recheck the containers, that 2 of the containers had 2 corns each in them. He says there is only 2 containers in the box and not three. I have never ever had a problem with any carrier i have used, opening boxes and stealing from them. I am curious if ths has happened to anyone else and what was done about it. Might i add, the customer is being quite rude about this and making it hard to deal with him. We are only talking $16 here, which i will gladly refund, but if we have a problem with carriers stealing, then it needs to be taken care of by airborne before more expensive items come up missing. I just really don't know what to think here, and I am not one to make accusations. Imput please???? |
| Brian Oakley |
Re: carrier theft??? anyone ever had this problem?
6790.html Posted At 13:06:04 08/04/2001 I have a few comments to make about this one. First off, some of us may not know this, but on the receipt from Airborne it does state that they can search any box they are shipping. I would ASSUME that is the case with any carrier. Second, if they DID open it and take it, that would be complete BS. Thridly, it is unfortunate, but what can we as shippers do about it. We are not supposed to use Airborne to ship anyway. Do not get me wrong, I use them as well! Roberta, is there ANY way that maybe you did not put one of the containers in the box. I AM SURE you have beat yourself to death on this one already. Quite an unfortuante situation. As far as taking care of the customer, I would send him a check for $16 (I believe that is the price you stated) whether he likes it or not and consider the matter resolved. If you know for a fact, and I am sure you did, put all of them in there, what can you do now. All you can do is give the money back like you stated. If the guy is being that rude about it, I say cut your ties after you replace the money. This way you have done what you can and on the other hand there is no reason you have to listen to any type of verbal abuse (if it has gone that far) for something you cannot change. Sorry to hear about this, keep us posted if you find out any more info on what happened. Brian Oakley PS. Is there ANY reason you would feel the customer is making this up? Just a thought! |
| roberta byrd |
Re: carrier theft??? anyone ever had this problem?
6799.html Posted At 16:29:28 08/04/2001 Brian, yes that thought has crossed my mind, but I won't accuse anyone. I try to treat everyone as I would wanna be treated. Even tho I felt he more then accused me. I do know Airborne's rules, and I am sure theft is not mentioned in them as being allowed. The box was marked frogs, and I will refer to them as so when speaking with airborne. I will refund the guy's money, because I am sure airborne will drag their feet on this. I will just not pay the shipping on that package til they resolve it. I will also let them know I won't allow those 2 guys (one was a new trainie) to pick up from me anymore. Maybe I am too naive or too trusting, but I would never have imagined something like this happening. I guess anything is possible and I will make it right, but if airborne has theives working for them, don't ship anything high dollar! As for the other question. I am quite positive all three containers of 5 animals were in there. It was the only package I sent out that day. I took all 5 shoe boxes to the packing counter and put all of them into 3 delis. I even remember how I placed them in the box. I am about 50/50 on what I think is true, can't point a definate finger. |
| Steve Schindler |
Re: carrier theft??? anyone ever had this problem?
6804.html Posted At 17:37:30 08/04/2001 I guess in your case I would just refund the $16.00 and forget it. Picture this scenerio. You call airborne and raise a stink "I put 5 frogs in the box and the guy only got 3" they check it out with their employees, and one has the guts to admit taking them, only he says "they weren't frogs they were snakes" (I am assuming it is against their regulations to ship snakes based on Brian's post) Airborne comes back to you and says you deliberatly mislabeled a package, what kind of repercussions would you be subject to? This could be a case where a lie could come back to bite you in the ... Steve Schindler |
| Neil Gubitz - The Snake Pit |
Re: carrier theft??? anyone ever had this problem?
6806.html Posted At 18:31:08 08/04/2001 Hey cutie...You sure you weren't just having a "Blonde Moment"? LOL (no need for letters folks, it's an inside joke!) Just for the record....If Airborne finds out that you were actually shipping snakes through them....they WILL take it LEGALLY!!! DO NOT contact them about this! You will end up with more trouble than the $16 is worth!! It's real easy....$16 refund or 2 more snakes (do the refund...it'll only cost you $.34)! PEOPLE.....If Roberta says she put the animals in the box...SHE DID!! She is probably one of the most honest people on here (aside from myself, that is! lol). Granted...I DON'T KNOW WHAT SHE LOOKS LIKE??? (another inside joke!), but she has a fantastically wicked sense of humor! I wouldn't hesitate to buy anything from her! She sent me some Burms that were just gorgeous!! (and I could use some more Albinos, Roberta)....Listen, kiddo.....don't worry about anything! You did NOTHING wrong! If your customer wants to be that anal-retentive about it, just send him his lousy $16 and be done with it! Then call me!.....seeya....Neil |
| roberta byrd |
Re: carrier theft??? anyone ever had this problem?
6807.html Posted At 19:02:46 08/04/2001 I think everyone is missing my point here. It is not a case of $16, it's a case of a possible theif. What if this continues to happen? What if these were womas and not corns. If the carrier boy stole from this package, is he doing it to other packages. As far as lying, big deal! How many of us have to because of stupid rules? About all of us! I don't think God is gonna condem me to hell for it. I am honest with my customers and that is what matters. Now to answer your question about what airborne will do if they find out they were snakes. They will tell me not to ship snakes anymore. Been there done that! They know this goes on and they know what kind of revenue they make off of us. They follow their rules and remind us not to do it. nudge nudge wink wink. If I knew it was the guys on this end, I'd break their fingers! As for you GOOBER lol, you are lucky you made me laugh here. I was still pouting!! lmao |
| Neil Gubitz - The Snake Pit |
Re: carrier theft??? anyone ever had this problem?
6808.html Posted At 19:33:00 08/04/2001 OK...to the point....Did you ask the receiver if the package looked tampered with? Tell him what type of tape, markings, etc., YOU put on the box, and see if they still look original, check for long slits with a papercutter that were taped over...that type of thing....You really CAN'T put blame on ANYBODY yet (and I'm not saying you have!), until you know ALL the facts and after a little investigation on EACH of your parts! I'd call Perry Mason!! You'd have it solved in an hour, tops!! Have Fun.... %>)) Neil |
| Mike Bearden |
Re: carrier theft??? anyone ever had this problem?
6809.html Posted At 19:35:35 08/04/2001 Is it possible your customer could be trying to pull your leg here,, maybe you actually sent it right and he contacted you and lied to you about what he recieved trying to get his money back and virtiually pay nothing for his animals,Im not saying that this is the case but im willing to say that it is entirly possible, so before blaming the carriers, think of all options,, I know it is only 16.00 but some people can be greedy, Mike |
| Mark Kennedy |
Re: carrier theft??? anyone ever had this problem?
6812.html Posted At 21:35:58 08/04/2001 I had a customer do the exact same thing to me a few years back, I sure would like to know this persons name. |
| Tom Townsend (Blackwater Reptiles) |
Re: carrier theft??? anyone ever had this problem?
6814.html Posted At 22:23:31 08/04/2001 Roberta, I received a shipment of snakes last week with one snake missing. The shipper was to send 1.2 amelanistic Cal Kings (there were many other snakes in the box). When the box arrived, there was one bag with a hole, CLEARLY cut with a sharp object, in the box. All of the snakes were accounted for except one of the amel Kings.... The box was taped at every seam, and the packaging material was searched three times, by myself *and* my wife. The third amel King could not be found. I informed the shipper, and asked if there was any way that the snake escaped on his end, or *maybe* was accidently omitted from the box. He tells me the snake was in the box when shipped. The hole in the bag is SO BIG that there's no way a kingsnake would have stayed in there for more than 30 seconds... I'm wondering if the same thing you describe *could* have happened in my case, but why not just steal all of the snakes? There were 1500.00 (retail) worth of animals in the box, and I can't imagine anyone just taking one Calking.... this was shipped through an air cargo service (NorthWest Airlines), and I've never had any trouble with any air cargo service (unless the package has to travel through Atlanta) before.... I find it is best NOT to use any carriers except major airlines. The service may not be as convenient as having a parcel shipped to your door, but in the end, there is significantly less stress for me and the animals when I ship through an airline... Sincerely, Tom Townsend |
| Jaosn Sweigart |
Re: carrier theft??? anyone ever had this problem?
6817.html Posted At 00:21:35 08/05/2001 One point I wanted to make is that it is legal to ship snakes with airborne none of the others but airborne YES!!!! When I ship with them I insure the snakes for what their worth as snakes also a couple weeks ago I had a huge problem with one of their pick up places in town. the nearest airborne building to me is like 40 miles so the town I live in has a mailboxes etc place that is their pick up point for this town, anyway i dropped some packages with them early on a wensday morning well thurdyas afternoon when nothing arrived to my customers housesI started getting calls so i called airbonre and asked what was up well my tracking numbers were not in the system and their log for the mailboxes etc said there was no pick ups for the prior day(day I dropped them off) so I called the mailboxes place well the girl there swore up and down that they had been picked up the day before I explained to her what airborne told me and she said they were picked up, so I drove down there and maid her call them to find out what was up, anway to make a long story short till i found out what really happened I had cursed out supervisiors at airbonre because no one knew were my snakes were and I told them they were snakes, I spoke to atleast 5 supervisors as well as my girlfreind spoke to a couple, and not one of them had a problem with them being snakes, anway what had happened was the girl at mailboxes lied to me because she stuck them in the UPS pile and the problem wasnt found till after airborne came in for the day, anyway every single package I have ever sent has had live snakes written all over it if you talk to the people at the washington state headquarters theyll tell you that you can, the people who say you cant are the was you hand the package to that are scared, so call there 1800 # but you can ship snakes with them, my 2 cents Jason |
| ben siegel |
Re: carrier theft??? anyone ever had this problem?
6819.html Posted At 01:41:21 08/05/2001 airborne does not give any guarantee on perishables nor allows shipping of live animals--stop wasting your money on insurance, because they will absolutely not reimburse you if an animal comes in dead --$5 or $5000 they will not give you a dime--i guarantee it--the only way you will receive a check from them is if they lose the package altogether- |
| Clay Davenport (A.R.B) |
Re: carrier theft??? anyone ever had this problem?
6820.html Posted At 02:08:12 08/05/2001 Jason... While it's not illegal to ship snakes by Airborne, as in you are breaking a law, it is against Airborne's internal policy despite your experience. Taken from the Airborne US Service Conditions, Acceptability Of Shipments for Transportation section: Shipments not acceptable item #9: 9. Live birds, mammals, snakes, lizards, bees, or other animals except for those which may be shipped subject to paragraph C of this rule. Paragraph C section 7 states: 7. Shipments of tortoise, frogs, non-venomous insects, live fish, and crustaceans only under the following conditions: a. Such shipments must be boxed or crated so as to prevent escape, insure safe transportation with ordinary care in handling, and assure protection to any person handling the shipment. b. Compliance with all laws, ordinances or government rules and regulations governing the transportation of live creatures. c. Airborne Express assumes no liability for the conduct or act of the animals to themselves or to each other, such as biting, kicking, goring or smothering. d. Sender must provide a letter absolving Airborne Express of all liability for loss, damage, or delay of such shipments Snakes and lizards are not allowed according to their official policy. The entire document is here: http://www.airborne.com/using/conditions/usa_detail.asp?item=1 |
| Patrick Hughett - North Texas Reptiles |
Re: carrier theft??? anyone ever had this problem?
6822.html Posted At 06:42:14 08/05/2001 Just a thought for Roberta...Airborne will not ship snakes. This should be apparent by reading the posts. You asked what could be done about it if it persists after you were told that Airborne will not ship snakes. The answer is plainly NOTHING! If they don't ship snakes and you lose a Woma....then I guess you're out a Woma...PERIOD! If you want to do it the right way, and have your shipment covered for the whole amount, then go through one of the various airlines that ship reptiles. They will know what is in the box, and how much the worth is, and should guarantee live arrival for you. If you continue to ship via Airborne, Fed Ex, UPS, etc., then you take on the responsibility yourself...it's nobody's fault but yours if you lose your animals. I use Fed Ex. I have had good luck with them so far. I've had animals die through other shippers and I've had to cover them myself...or simply stop using that shipper. Patrick Hughett North Texas Reptiles |
| David - Double "D" Reptiles |
Re: carrier theft??? anyone ever had this problem?
6823.html Posted At 08:50:51 08/05/2001 I'm all confused now. If Airborne Express doesn't ship snakes or lizards, as stated in their policies, why did they allow a Bearded dragon, with a picture clearly taped to the top of the box, to come to Oklahoma from Massachusetts this past week. Also, is this a fairly new rule or is it something more recent? A couple of years ago we used Airborne fairly regularly and even had a couple of the drivers here who just "had to see" the snakes and lizards we were shipping out of shear curiosity and interest. It seems that about any package service we come across today is overly paranoid about snakes and lizards, officially, but a lot of their people know absolutely nothing about the regs. We've had lizards arrive though the PO and had workers there joking with other employees that the box contained snakes as if there was nothing wrong with it. UPS clearly states that they will handle lizards (had a good fuss over this one last week) but officially won't carry snakes (too bad because we've slipped them through) and they also reserve the right to open and inspect packages. Those of us who don't have airports across town are really getting shafted here. Besides, in this part of the country right now air cargo carriers refuse to allow shipping because of the temps. I'm beginning to think we'd be better off mislabeling on purpose and sending postal. Always heard that if you've got to do time, do it the Fed way. Just hate to think of taking it that far because we, as a herping community, can't get carriers to allow snake/lizard shipping with some set of safe packaging guidelines. All in all, we're just up against the wall right now. |
| ROBERTA BYRD |
Re: carrier theft??? anyone ever had this problem?
6826.html Posted At 16:24:34 08/05/2001 Once again this has gone a whole different direction. I know what airborne does and does not allow. The point was to see if someone else has encountered this problem and with who. Maybe the recipient is known for pulling this??? Also, it does not matter what the contents were or the value. Theft is theft no matter how you look at it. Since 90% of us ship with overnight carriers and have to fib about the contents, then i guess i am in the majority. Just because i shipped something that is not allowed, does not mean it is ok to open a package and steal it! I am not so sure it was stolen tho. I am about 50/50 on whether the 3 containers did arrive or not. If anyone has had this problem with a certain customer, please e-mail me as Mark did. This is what i am interested in hearing. |
| Jaosn Sweigart |
Re: carrier theft??? anyone ever had this problem?
6844.html Posted At 23:47:34 08/05/2001 well thats the way i have been doing it for 2 years now, but anyway I stand corrected alot of people at airborne just dont know whats going on I guess thanks guys Jason |
| Patrick Hughett - North Texas Reptiles |
Re: carrier theft??? anyone ever had this problem?
6849.html Posted At 01:29:18 08/06/2001 Well...the reasoning for some people being able to ship lizards, snakes, etc. through Airborne is that not every employee knows the rules of the company. I have heard of people shipping animals that are not allowed and they gladly accept them at SOME locations. Other locations will NOT accept them as they know they are not supposed to ship them. There could be many reasons why some people get away with it in their areas...New Hires at Airborne that may not know, Veterans that may not care...or even know for that matter, etc. As for the theft...It may be wrong, but I would just take the loss and move on rather than take it to claims and say that you got a snake stolen! I guarantee you that the claims dept. sure as heck knows what is allowed and not allowed to be shipped, and I also guarantee you that they are TRAINED to find any, and every reason known to man, NOT TO GIVE YOU A REFUND OR CREDIT FOR ANYTHING!!! That is their job! Besides that, you could get into legal matters. I had a guy ship me an anaconda last year through UPS. Late that night he got a phone call from UPS saying "We know you have a snake in the box...We need to know if it's venomous or not!". He replied that is was NOT venomous. They then said, "We will go ahead and complete the shipment, but we are putting you on our fraudulent list and if you do it again, we will press charges!". I don't think I would want to take that risk by calling the claims dept. Just take the loss and move on to a different shipper. Just so you know, I have had the best luck with Fed Ex this year. I haven't had one fatality and only a couple of times were they late. There is a location near me that takes packages as late as 8:30 p.m. and delivers before 10:30 a.m., so I don't have to ship during the middle of the day...as it is VERY HOT here in TX. Small, light weight packages run about $30 for Priority delivery. Patrick Hughett North Texas Reptiles |
| Brian Oakley |
Re: carrier theft??? anyone ever had this problem?
6859.html Posted At 13:07:12 08/06/2001 Just a quick thought Patrick. How could UPS or ANY OTHER company (other than USPS) press charges. To my knowledge it is not against the law to ship threw Airborne (for example) just aginst their own policies. Sounds like a silly threat to me. B Oakley |
| Bob Fisher |
Re: carrier theft??? anyone ever had this problem?
6903.html Posted At 23:14:19 08/06/2001 Hey Patrick, Speaking of not allowing shipment of animals, as far as I know, FedEx does not allow the shipment of reptiles, and definately no snakes... Correct me if I'm wrong. |
| Dave, East TN Reptiles |
ABE has screwed me so many times...I feel like I've been raped!
6925.html Posted At 12:05:27 08/07/2001 They were kind enough to put one of my shipments outside in the snow! finally after 3 hours off/on the phone.The carrier admitted he didn't even knock on the door. He "just slung it out in the snow" Then the told me they'd ship my snakes. Picked em up and wouldn't ship em after they told me they would (one small boa) Then they sent me a registered letter stating I was red flagged! I wouldn't give ABE air in a jug! I constantly remind ALL my customers.....NEVER USE AIRBOURNE EXPRESS! THEIR LIARS! AND NOTHING MORE.THEY TRUELY SUCK ! They also dropped off some frozen rats outside my garage door in july (last year) in the heat! The box was marked "frozen/perishable. They didn't bring it to the dorr,nothig again! PLEASE DO NOT USE AIRBOURNE EXPRESS.......IF YOU VALUE YOUR ANIMALS AND CUSTOMERS ! |
| Jamey |
Re: carrier theft??? anyone ever had this problem?
6955.html Posted At 15:53:59 08/07/2001 First off, Tom TOwnsend, The kings got out am I right? The bag was torn and all, but did it occur to you that possible one of the kings ate the other? They do eat other snakes. And secondly, I would report it to the Cops to investigat it. |
| Tom Townsend (Blackwater Reptiles) |
The "missing" king
6961.html Posted At 17:30:20 08/07/2001 Read my post and perhaps the situation would be more clear to you. I stated that ONE bag had a hole in it. This corresponds with the actual number of snakes that I was "shorted." I have been compensated by the shipper and have NO ISSUE outstanding with him. None of the other animals were "loose" or missing, so I find it a bit unlikely that one of the snakes that was securely bagged ate the missing animal as you suggest. Contrary to your supposition that I am ignorant of natural Kingsnake behavior, I assure you that I am completely aware of their propensity for eating snakes as well as just about anything else within striking range. Calling the police would be pretty futile, since I did not inventory the animals at the air cargo facility, and having left the scene of "the crime" it would be my word against theirs and or the shipper. My previous message in regard to this incident, neither accused nor named anyone as guilty of anything. I was merely trying to relate a similar experience to what Roberta's customer *may* have experienced. I am left without an explanation, but I find your hypothesis to be a bit far fetched and borderline insulting to my intelligence. Tom |
| Brittney Latil |
Re: carrier theft??? anyone ever had this problem?
6965.html Posted At 18:13:01 08/07/2001 I think personally that if Aiborne Express did it, they would have taken all the snakes since it was illegal for you to ship through them anyway. I was told it was legal to ship snakes through Airborne Express by Jerry Tubbs. Guess that wasn't true. I really think that your customer is lying. I have had that happen to me before, but he ended up fessing up to it. This is probably going to end up being an "unsolved mystery". Good Luck! |
| Patrick Hughett @ North Texas Reptiles |
Re: carrier theft??? anyone ever had this problem?
7082.html Posted At 13:14:08 08/10/2001 Hey Bob, Apparently you didn't learn in school not to take things out of context. If you read my posts reeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaal carefully, you will see that I have stated UPS, Airborne, Fed Ex, etc. will not ship snakes....You see that smart a**? Now...If you read a little further, you will see that I say that most people do it anyway...You see that one too? OK...now, if you read on just a little further, you will see that I say that I do it, and it goes on just a little further to say that I take my chances and if something goes wrong, I will cover it totally. I will NOT contact the shipper to cover any dead or missing snakes as that is a lawsuit waiting to happen. Why don't you read a little into things before flying off the handle pal...instead of just skimming through what you want to read? And. please don't tell me you were simply asking me a question, because I know exactly what you were trying to do. If you don't like my shipping methods, don't buy from me. I won't miss people like yours' business. However, I have covered every single death that I've ever had 100% and will continue to do so. All I was saying is that is it rediculous to try to take a claim with one of those shippers when they don't even ship that kind of stuff. Patrick Hughett North Texas Reptiles |
| Patrick Hughett @ North Texas Reptiles |
Re: carrier theft??? anyone ever had this problem?
7083.html Posted At 13:26:00 08/10/2001 Another thing.............BOB! Do you have any problem with me trying to help someone not get themselves in trouble? I was trying to keep this person out of a lawsuit. Another thing..............BOB! Do you have a problem trying to help someone by telling them to not use a shipper that has screwed them over and recommending another one? Another thing................BOB! What was the point in your statements? I'm just curious. Is it that you think I'm a bad guy for shipping Fed Ex?...when 85% to 90% of the people in this business ship through these carriers? Are you trying to tell me that you have never shipped or received packeages via these shippers? Perhaps you have never used them yourself (which I doubt), but I seriously doubt you haven't received on through them. So, these people that have sent you stuff...Have you refused the packeage because it was sent that way or did you accept it? Come on BOB...Let's hear the whole truth here. Am I such a bad guy here? Go ahead and mention to me the people out there that are unhappy with the way I conduct business...AND I WANT PEOPLE THAT I HAVE ACTUALLY DONE BUSINESS WITH...NOT PEOPLE FROM THE OUTSIDE JUST CRITICIZING. Can you name any BOB???!! I believe I have said enough. Thank You, Patrick Hughett |
| Chad |
Re: carrier theft??? anyone ever had this problem?
8205.html Posted At 08:27:53 08/25/2001 I put $ money on it that you sent all containers and air bourne did not open the box and the customer got what he paid for and called you to pretend he never received all three and had them sitting infront of him the whole time. There is alot of people out there like that and nothing you can do because your at home and they are across the country somewhere and its your word agianst theres. Believe me i had to deal with BS before too. GOOD LUCK !!!!!! |