What should I do? Please help!

Author Subject: What should I do? Please help!
Aaron Kosins Posted At 11:54:24 08/25/2001
Hello! My name is Aaron Kosins and this is the first time I have posted on this inquiry forum. I read it all the time and have to say that many people make very valid points all the time. I am actually a breeder of bearded dragons, and here is my dilemma:

I don't want to mention the guys name right now because I think that would be petty. I just want some input as to what I should do.

About four or five months ago, I was offering snow dragons on kingsnake.com. I had a lot of satisfied customers whose references I can give to anyone. A "guy" e-mailed me saying that he was intereste. Because I like to talk to my customers, I asked for his phone number and gave him a call. He wanted to trade two baby red dragons, and a sandfire yellow adult male for my snow dragon. Here is the catch: I asked him several times if the sandfire yellow was directly from Sandfire Dragon Ranch. He said yes to all of my questions. Being a trusting person, I went for it.
Aaron Kosins Re: What should I do? Please help!
8212.html Posted At 12:03:46 08/25/2001

Sorry, but I accidentely pushed send.

Anyway, so he said it was directly from the Ranch. I went ahead and sent him a picture of my sub-adult snow dragon that I was trading to him. He got the picture and liked it. When I asked for pics, he made up an excuse that I cannot remember. He seemed like a nice guy and I am trusting person. Therefore, we made the trade.

I get the package in the mail and the "adult" male is packed in a deli cup. I don't know if people reading this will know about packing beardies, but you do not put them in a deli cup unless they are babies. Anyway, the two baby reds did not show much color and the supposed sandfire yellow was not to my liking. Remember, I sent him pics of my dragon and got none from him...therefore, I guess this is kind of my fault.

This is where it gets interesting. I saw the sandfire yellow male and knew it couldn't be from the Ranch. I called Sandfire Dragon Ranch and asked if anybody by this person's name had purchased a dragon there. They said no and were pissed off that he was using there name. I notified the guy I did the trade with and he said that he actually had a friend buy it for him on his credit card. I got the friend's name and again, there was no sale to him.

The guy I traded with eventually tells me that he was lied to and thought it was from the Ranch. Anyway, I asked for compensation. I never would have made the trade of a nice snow dragon for a orange adult male (not really though) and two baby reds (by the way, one of the babies died soon after receiving it). He said he would compensate me but it has been two months now. He always has an excuse and never sends me the new baby dragon he promised me. Jude Fitch from the Waving Dragon has been very helpful on directing me, but I have never been screwed like this. I have bought and sold literally hundreds of dragons, and never have I been treated this way. What should I do? I have been so patient, and now I'm getting pissed. I was honest, and he wasn't. Now I am paying the price.
Patrick Hughett @ North Texas Reptiles Re: What should I do? Please help!
8216.html Posted At 15:22:20 08/25/2001

It seems to me that after all this time of getting excuses, the best thing to do is forget it a move on and consider it a learning experience. If you have all the e-mails and conversations saved, you could take legal action, but I think for just a few hundred bucks, it really wouldn't be worth your time.

Patrick Hughett
North Texas Reptiles
Aaron Kosins Re: What should I do? Please help!
8218.html Posted At 16:07:19 08/25/2001

Patrick,
Thank you for the response...however, he still says he is going to send the dragon. I actually do save all of my e-mails because I am an anal person.
If he sends it to me, I will not have a problem with him anymore. If not, we'll see what happens. I have the money to take legal action and a good lawyer. But I don't want it to come to this. I mean, this business is supposed to the "happiness" business. Anymore posts would be appreciated.

Regards,

Aaron
Jude Fitch {MiLadyDragonn} Re: What should I do? Please help!
8219.html Posted At 16:15:16 08/25/2001

~First of all, Aaron, my friend...it is not petty to give the name of the person who screwed you over..it is necessary!!
If we don't know who it was then we are subject to the same treatment. Also, if you do not mention his name then why should he worry? He has nothing to lose and can move on to the next trusting person. I know you well, you are a great person, but there comes a time not to be so nice. This is it.
~And yes, you are a very trusting soul...this trust becomes more imbedded with every good person you deal with. Unfortunately, you have been lucky...you haven't run into the nasties before now. We both have a great deal in common, one of those things being our strong sense of fair play. When some one does us dirty, we just can't believe it!! We are more hurt and betrayed than angry because we would never consider being dishonest with anyone.
~Give up this person's name and then let him know you have done so. Perhaps...and it's a wild shot...he will try to make it up to you in order to "fix" things in the public eye. If not, then at least he can't hurt anyone here and you can take some comfort in the amount of business he will lose because of his unprofessional actions.
Good Luck, I'm with you 100%
jude
Ritchie Luna Re: What should I do? Please help!
8221.html Posted At 16:31:35 08/25/2001

Aaron it is time to put the persons name up here. Fair is fair. two months of excuses is too much
Neil Gubitz - The Snake Pit - Tampa, FL Re: What should I do? Please help!
8224.html Posted At 18:55:06 08/25/2001

Jude...what to you do...read my thoughts, too??? You took the words right out of my mouth!! AGAIN!! lol
Aaron....Two months is LONG ENOUGH to see what someone's MADE OF!! As I've said a hundred times on this forum...."You NEVER really know someone until something goes wrong!!" That's when you separate the men/women from the boys/girls!! YOU HAVE GOT TO RELEASE HIS NAME AND COMPANY TO THIS FORUM!! That is the WHOLE purpose of posting here! And then TELL HIM what you did! If he has ANY BRAINS what-so-ever...you WILL get your refund, or whatever it is you were looking for! IF he doesn't.....WE WILL ALL KNOW ABOUT IT!! That really doesn't make for good business ethics.....
Aaron Kosins Re: What should I do? Please help!
8253.html Posted At 13:12:22 08/26/2001

Alright! Alright! I have been hazed by several different people saying that I should expose this guy. I tried to imagine for a while that he would be legitimate and honest about the situation...however, that time has passed.

The guy's name is Bill Counts. He goes by the web addresses of bcounts1971@cs.com or bdragon1971@cs.com and a couple others. Pretty much anything with count or 1971 in the name. What truly makes him pathetic to me is as follows:

1. The guy is over fourty years old and still acts like a child. Lying and being dishonest is for weak people that cannot stand on behind their own word.

2. This guy is illiterate and obviousely uneducated. He is probably that guy in high school that was still spitting paper wads when he should have been taking the SAT. I wish he would post on here so everybody could see what his e-mails look like and how he communicates. Communication is the key, and by the way this guy writes, a four year old would be baffled.

3. Check out a thread on the sales section of herpwantads.com. He is advertising a coastal bearded dragon and then says it is a blood dragon. What the hell is that? This guy is obviousely a moron.

4. This guy made another post that he had a proven pair of snow dragons. I asked where he got them and to see pics. Of course, he made up an excuse, had no pics, and couldn't quite tell me how they were proven. Finally, he said he got them from someone else who proved them.

Bottom line: This guy sucks!

Regards,

Aaron Kosins
Jude Fitch{MiLadyDragonn} Re: What should I do? Please help!
8293.html Posted At 16:01:03 08/27/2001

~~MY oh MY!! When you cut loose you sure do CUT LOOSE!!
>>chuckle<<
~Anyway, I knew who the person was, as Aaron had spoken to me about him...but it was not for me to post his name. I have had ony minor dealings with this person and my opinion was pretty much the same. The lack of communication skills, as well as, the general content of his emails threw up a mess of red flags and I did not allow myself to get into any transactions with him. Unfortunately, I did not know Aaron was dealing with him until it was too late for me to tell him about the little voice in the back of my mind that screams bloody murder whenever something "JDFR" ("Just Don't Feel Right")
~ There are many people who lack education, even social and communication skills, and it sometimes cannot be helped...but to have no conscience or sense of honor and honesty...well, that is something that can be helped. Sometimes I pick it up in the wording of a question or an answer. Other times, it's just a gut feeling I get...and, thank goodness I got it when this BCounts emailed me regarding an ad I had posted.
~ Hopefull, Aaron, someone will put him wise to this thread and he has enough good sense to, at least, contact you and make some attempt to rectify it all. At least, now, EVERYONE knows to look out for him, right,gang?

jude (AKA: "the Old Broad" >>chuckle<<)
Elliott Brodzinski Re: What should I do? Please help!
8381.html Posted At 18:04:35 08/29/2001

I recently have been attempting trade some of my snakes for bearded dragons, Bill Counts was one of the people whom I spoke to, I found out later that he took my inventory list of animals and was trying to sell/trade them to other people before he and I even agreed to any kind of trade, so he didn't even have posession of them. unfortunatly for him I talked to one of the people that he was trying to trade *my* animals to and the gentlemen sent Bill an email and asked "are those Elliot's animals you are trying to trade me?" anyhow I believe that was unethical, those animals weren't even in his posession at the time he was offering them for trade.

is this what Caveat emptor came from??? :)

We all live and learn,
Elliott

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