| Author | Subject: Questionable Shipping Star4dogs@aol.com beardeds |
| scott cook | Posted At 21:20:05 08/27/2001
I purchased 5 baby bearded dragons from this person. They shipped them Thursday the 23 at 8:40 am they arrived at my house Friday the 24th at 10:42 am They were in this box for 26 hours and they put them in deli cups cups, on the bottom of the deli cups they placed wet paper towel that the bearded had to sit on. In the box they used newspaper around the deli cups and in the middle of the box wrapped in paper was an ice pack. I didn't think this was a very good way to ship 5 week old beardeds. I woke up on the 25th Saturday morning and one was dead. I have them in a 10 gallon tank on dry paper towel and one small plastic rock look alike. I have a 25 watt incandescent bulb on the screen cover for heat. Feeding them very small crickets. Not pinheads but not larger than 1/4 They have been ok since they came in but not great. I emailed the seller and she questiones the temp of the tank. Now the 27th Monday I wake up and two more are dead. Out of 5 I now have only two and its not looking good. So, question shipping quality before you buy. Just thought a warning about this and the seller should be told. What do you think I should do with this seller as far as the money I paid? thanks, Scott |
| David - Double "D" Reptiles |
Re: Questionable Shipping Star4dogs@aol.com beardeds
8315.html Posted At 22:07:45 08/27/2001 Well, Debbie and I mulled this one over and here's what we came up with. 1.) Need to always verify previous experiences with shipping. 2.) Wouldn't have shipped on wet paper towels, deli cups were great but dry substrate would have been better. 3.) Because BDs prefer warmer temps, wouldn't have used a cold pak unless they would have been subjected to temps in excess of 95 degrees for more than a couple of hours, which if USPS was used would have been unlikely. 4.) Even in our 10 gal. tanks with babies, we do use higher watt bulbs, either 60 or 75 depending on how temps register after a couple of hours of use. We would have probably used 75 at first as a method to reduce shipping stress and related problems. Would have recommended it as the shipper of the animals to provide the best possible conditions upon arrival. 5.) Because of possible dehydration during shipping (probably the reason for using wet paper towels to try and avoid this) we would recommend a small shallow dish of water in the tank to allow them to soak. This is in addition to misting. 6.) Would have recommended something to climb on so that they could get closer to the light for optimal warming and allow for thermoregulation. 7.) Finally, most experienced breeders and sellers prefer to wait until 6 to 8 weeks to ship because any younger than that requires an experienced BD Keeper to continue raising. It's usually not recommended to purchase babies younger than this at shows/expos as well for the same reason. Shipping does produce at least minimal stress on the animals. We've come to this conclusion because shipping for us regularly takes 2 days and we have to take these issues into consideration each time we ship more than 300-400 miles away. The 2 day issue also comes up when we order animals in due to our town's proximity to large postal shipping centers. Hope this helps. It's difficult to say that blame should be laid anywhere. Perhaps this is something that you and the seller can come to a middle ground over without the possible "nasties" that could happen if either were to let emotions get carried away. Just my $.02 worth and that's probably more than it's actually worth. David |
| Neil Gubitz - The Snake Pit - Tampa, FL |
Re: Questionable Shipping Star4dogs@aol.com beardeds
8319.html Posted At 22:30:48 08/27/2001 Sorry, Scott...but I have to agree with David on this one...and THEN some! In my (humble) opinion...you were BOTH to blame! The shipper for making them sit on a cold paper towel with a cold pack for 20 hours! and YOU for NOT doing your homework to KNOW that BD's NEED HEAT!!! The should have a 75W bulb AT THE LEAST! With a water bowl big enough for them to get their WHOLE BODY in! So if they want to soak, they can....you should also get them some branches (as David said) for them to get MORE heat if they want...You put the heat lamp on ONE SIDE of the tank...and the water bowl on the OTHER side of the tank...this way, the Beardie can acclimate itself...I TRULY believe that if you had put them under enough heat when you got them in, they'd be alive as we speak! Sorry, man, but I really believe that to be true, so you see, you really shouldn't blame anyone for anything! I'm sure the shipper did what he THOUGHT was right...and you did what you THOUGHT was right....AND YOU BOTH THOUGHT WRONG!! Just consider it a lesson learned and move on! ....Neil |
| scott cook |
Re: Questionable Shipping Star4dogs@aol.com beardeds
8322.html Posted At 23:04:29 08/27/2001 Thanks for the replies. Concerning the heat subject, I had a 60 watt bulb and when i first contacted the seller she told me that was to hot and that is why I went to a 25 watt bulb. Concerning the basking spot, I have a plastic piece that lookd like a rock and it is stepped up with three levels on it and it is placed under the light. So, they could regulate. Conerning the water, I did have water available to them but it was the size of a half dollar, I misted them daily with a spray bottle I bought new at Bennys. Concerning Heat, I only heated one end of the tank and no heat source at the other end. |
| Bob Fisher @ Hanover Herps |
Re: Questionable Shipping Star4dogs@aol.com beardeds
8325.html Posted At 00:21:26 08/28/2001 Scott... As a breeder of dragons also, I would have to agree with most of what was said by the other guys. As far as the dry substrate for shipping, you do want to mist the sides of the deli cup fairly well, but not to the point that it is soaked. This does allow them to have atleast a little water if they want it. As for what she told you about the bulb for heat, that was wrong! I use 75w and 100w bulbs on my dragons, depending on the size of the enclosures and the size/age of the dragons. Also, what about a bulb for uvb ? This is essential for them, not that it would have harmed them in that little bit of time, but you didn't mention that. Also, I really wish EVERYONE that ships these little guys when they are just BABIES would just wait a little bit longer to ship them, at least till they are 6-8 weeks old minimum! I know that they require a little bit more care, and money for food, but is it worth risking killing them by shipping stress, to save a few bucks?!?! I've seen people offering them for sale at just 2 weeks old!!! Keep them a little longer, and add a little to the price! That's why you see alot of these people selling baby beardeds alot cheaper than the rest of us, but in essence you get what you pay for!! I'd rather buy/sell them for a little bit more at an older age for the piece of mind knowing that they'll have a better chance of surviving, than save a few bucks and risk losing any. Come on people, these are living creatures we're dealing with, not just a comodity!!! PS... It's also a good thing to let them play/soak/swim in a shallow container of water a couple times a week as well. Good luck with what you have left, hopefully you can keep them from dieing as well! Another lesson learned for ALL !! |
| Mickey (TLK) |
Re: Questionable Shipping Star4dogs@aol.com beardeds
8348.html Posted At 20:29:31 08/28/2001 I guess I will give my 2 cents also. 1: Earlier this season I was sent 50 dragons that were between 2-4 weeks old and were sent on wet paper towles, in a non insulated box, with newspaper. However no cold pack. Granted the dragongs arrived very stressed (took 2 1/2 days to arrive) but after a good soaking, and some heat I didnt loose a single dragon. 2: The shipper should never have used a heat pack 3: you should have asked other peoples opinons after seeing the shipper may not have known what they were doing. I agree that dragons generally should not be sold under 6". And if a person does sell a dragon at that size, they should atleast try and see how much the person buying the dragon knows. I was selling dragons at about 4 weeks earlier this season, and had a couple of problems due to shipping, and inexperienced customers. I have since decided to generally only sell older dragons, unless I can be sure the buyer has a good idea of how to care for the dragons. I agree that it was a combination of problems, but in all honesty you would likely not have lost a single dragon with a good deal of heat, and a nice soak in luke warm water. Chalk it up to a learning lesson. Mickey Hinkle The Lizard King Reptiles Omaha NE |
| scott cook |
Re: Questionable Shipping Star4dogs@aol.com beardeds
8412.html Posted At 07:03:07 08/30/2001 Well, first I would like to thank everyone who responded. Just wanted to let everyone know that the seller Star4dogs@aol.com and I have talked and came to this conclusion. At reading the above opinions and other factors we came to an agreement and the seller credited my paypal account half of the sale price. Which I think is more than fair. Especialy after reading the above post. I am grateful for your opinions because without them I would have still felt the seller was totaly wrong. But now I can understand my shortcomings and accept that I played a role in their deaths also. I am not happy with myself for the death of the three baby beardeds. I took all of your suggestions and the last two seem to be doing much better and more active. Again thank you and also a big thank you to Star4dogs for being such a fair and generous person. |
| Brian Blalock |
Just another thought...
8427.html Posted At 14:06:01 08/30/2001 my e-mail: bblalock{at}pacbell.net First, let me say I'm sorry about the loss of the dragons. That's a tough way to learn a lesson, and you certainly have my sympathy there. I agree with what everyone else has said, but I wanted to toss a couple cents in with regards to recieving dragons. I have six dragons currently, and all but one were shipped overnight USPS. First, always have animals marked for holding at the post office, with your phone number on the box. Much better than having them in the back of a hot or cold truck for a few hours getting to you. Second, when you first take the dragons (or whichever herp) out, do not put them into a warm tank right away. It's less of a shock for them if you let them warm up for a little while at room temperature. I think the previous posts have done a good job with pinpointing what went wrong in this situation, just thought I'd share a couple more tips with you. Best of luck. |
| M.Gandolfo |
Re: Questionable Shipping Star4dogs@aol.com beardeds
8468.html Posted At 09:27:52 08/31/2001 Scott, It is so refreshing to hear someone take some responsibility for a transaction that seemed to go wrong. You took others advice openly, and did not get defensive about what your part in it might have been. Rather, you used it as a learning lesson. I am so glad that you and the seller were able to come to an agreement, and that the other two dragons seem to be well. |
| David - Double "D" Reptiles |
Re: Questionable Shipping Star4dogs@aol.com beardeds
8508.html Posted At 22:01:45 08/31/2001 Scott, KUDOS on the way both of you handled the situation. It is very much the way I would have suggested that both of you handle it but it was not my place to make such a suggestion. The both of you handled it in a manner that eludes so many in the business. Glad you both could find something to learn from in the situation and hope everything continues to improve for the remaining 2. David |