You Decide

lol Jeff, that looks like an eastern to me.
Michael

Michael's Place

My Email

Its colors look like a typical adult Eastern, but I wouldn't go by just that alone. You have a head shot of the snake?

Do the two intergrade at all?

Yeah they do intergrade, but intergraded specimens don't look anything like this eastern. ................................... Look below, it is clearly an eastern.
Michael

Regular adult eastern


Regular adult red milk snake


Intergrade between the red milk snake and the eastern milk

Thanks, and do have to agree, it does look like a typical adult eastern. I am not too familiar with the color variation in Reds, and thats why I asked.

Thanks again,
Chad Bachman

Thanks so much everyone! I also would like to thank the people that I e-mailed the pic to who e-mailed me back! I feel somewhat vindicated. I have sent the pic to S.Brown, but he has not replied yet. This whole trade was problematic, but maybe it can be worked out. I hope so. I just don't like to be p****d on and told it's raining!
David Scarboro Jr.
Dahlonega, Ga.

COLOR means nothing,even if its in the name,lol.The pic of the snake in question is also on kingsnake photo gallery under my name.CHeck out the collar and the head shape,definately RED.All the red milks in the photos....NONE of them are from IA locales right?MOST are immature(holding red)and spectacular animals.....This was not even the darkest one I got from Shannon,Dwight Good got a darker female and he never questioned the validity of the ssp..Anyone take a look at the Markel book yet? Someone has to have it besides me,validate this for me.And as far as scale counts go,I dont doubt it to be found NEAR an intergrade area(as I have found its county locale--Madison).If you also read Williams or Markel you will note the overlap in scale counts with these ssp..I have never burned anyone and have reached agreement in principal with Dave on this.I am sending him a MORE RED RED milk,lol,maybe he will think this one a sinaloan or something.For those of you trying to ID easterns,check out my pics as well and you can see definative head size/shape differences.Looks like we all have seen too many mexican milk ssp lately huh?Jeff

hate to say this again,,,but your wrong !!! jeff.s that is an eastern milk,ive seen the head,,its an eastern milk,your wrong, i have been in to herps 20+yrs also and have had both reds and easterns i currently have allot of easterns NOW, i do know the difference,lol,all ya want the bottom line is you are wrong get anyone to agree w/you that is a red or even an intergrade for that mattter ,anyone jeff,,,s.brown,d.good,ANYONE! ,,, IMHO ya tried passing an eastern off as red which is just plain ole sad ,but from what ive read your sendin him replacement thats RED as ya say(should been sent the 1st time!)but at least your sendin it now!, but really now is the oh you'll prolly say its a sinaloan,lol,,is that really neccesary? imho it just shows your arrogance ,,ya say your making it right we'll see i hope so peace,,,,,,thomas davis

i recognize that snake (or at least) the genes that went in to it, i should as i bred the snake or its parents.

as jeff stated, it was honestly represented. it is an animal descended from snakes found near the northwestern limit of syspila territory. there likely is some eastern influence in the Madison Co. IA milksnake population, but most people familiar with milks would agree that they are more syspila than eastern.

there is a good deal more variation in pattern and color both within and between populations of milks than can be seen with a few hours of surfing the web looking for pics, so be wary of broad statements about what is and isn't a syspila (or anything else for that matter).

s.