The new Atlanta show schedule

The phone # for Jamil Temple is (838)772-9380
email address is TempleJamil@aol.com

OOPS! That number is(803)772-9380

I have been watching the sideshow here, much like webslave I would guess, and have some ideas and comments on all of this I would like to share.

First, and I think obviously, a public forum such as this one is not the place for show related pissing contests. Show related discourse and info, yes. Name calling, no. Seems like the same few (6 or so didn't count) people like to come here and bicker back and forth endlessly. The obvious choice for me is simple, don't read it or read it for what it is worth. As Brett and Webslave have pointed out it is bigger than that. Many people may read this that found this thread off of a search engine or other means simply trying to find more info about shows in their area. Some of you are vendors or promoters, is this how you wish to be viewed by the public at large? Calling other vendors/promoters names? Pinocchio? Have we left the first grade yet? Much, in fact most, of what has been said here would ideally be said through an IM or email or in an off the beaten path un-moderated forum. Just an idea to consider. They are watching.......

Second, what is your deal Roark? I have seen you at countless shows and you have never been anything but a pleasant professional? The joke didn't even involve you or your show. Had Cathy had her car burst into flames it very likely would have been said that "Tony did it" by someone, if not herself in an entirely joking way. Can we not have a little fun with ourselves and the stressful situations we have involved ourselves in occasionally? I heard the car fire joke at the time and I assure you it was 1000% a joke and was in no way, shape or form put into public light until Eric did so here. Once again, the unknowing reader WILL read that-and likely has read that. You want to be known for that? Remember, you are an entertainer and are promoting yourself with almost everything you say or do in the public eye, it matters more for you than most. Same goes for the two other promoters in question.

Third, I have no idea why Roark is no longer the headline entertainment at Tony's shows. Don't want to know and it is likely nobody's business but theirs. I think that rotating through a few main headliners from time to time is probably a good idea anyhow. Get Alan Bosch, Roark, Jeff, possibly even Chuck-anybody who is interesting and a good speaker to get up there and entertain and educate. The average person very likely will get a bit tired of the same presentations everytime the show comes to town, wouldn't you think? Have you all watched Titanic 50+ times? Chuck, you are a smart guy, talk to you at several shows in front of my table on a regular basis. Did so at Atlanta. You have loads of reptile knowledge and I would guess you get about as much out of the presentations as I do. About nothing. It isn't that either entertainer isn't any good or lacks more than enough knowledge to get the job done. We, and most other vendors are much more advanced and it has little value to us. The main purpose of the presentations is to get people in the door, learn something (often anything will do) and KEEP THEM AT THE SHOW LONGER TO BUY STUFF. You can not single handed make it worth while for all of us vendors to come to a show. If you would like to see me and others at shows vending, then whether or not you like the side show at the time you need to hope that enough people come to the show and spend some of their hard earned money with us. If the sideshow helps to accomplish that for you, me and my fellow vendors then it is doing its job. Your initial comment on your preference for Roark was a good, constructive one. One you may wish to share with Tony if you haven't already done so. Promoters need our ideas to help promote. They may not listen to them all but they need to hear them. How was this allowed spiral into a pissing contest about free handling? Both you and Brett are smarter than that.

Fourth, Tony has earned a fair amount of loyalty from me as a vendor because for SEVERAL years now he has been consistently making me money. That is a simple fact. You can call me "Tony's boy" or whatever. Fact still remains. Another fact, it costs 10's of thousands of dollars to put on a show like Atlanta regardless of who does it. The venue alone is over 9K. Any of you NON-PROMOTER Tony critics (vendors included) ready to pony up? I'm not and don't want to. Its pretty damn easy to get on this forum and sling mud, do you have the stones to ante up 25K for a venue, employees, travel, advertising and whatever else goes into it? Is it really all that easy to do, especially when you know there is a good chance you will stand to lose a bunch of money? Personally I will take my chances at the poker table before I will do that. You have constructive criticism or ideas, email Tony. I do it all the time. He can be quite receptive when he doesent feel like he is under attack. He was recently expressing to me the same dislike that Brett did, vendors packing and leaving early at Atlanta. I was one of them. I agree with Tony and Brett but the fact is the show was dead after 3:30, almost every show is, and I have to drive 6 hours and get up and work the next day. Like just about all the vendors. Some, like Ben have to go a lot farther than that. I suggested to him that maybe he should just close future shows at 4pm on Sunday. It sounds like he is going to do it. Simple enough I think. I may start gathering up my stuff at 3:30 like I usually do on Sunday but I will be open for business until 4. And out the door I go.

Fifth, As far as I know Tony has no other steady job. I may very well be wrong but it is my current understanding that this is his primary gig. Now, Cathy and friends, What do you expect the man to do when someone else moves into one of "his" cities and try to make it "your" city? Really, do you expect him to hold hands and frolic in a grassy field on a sunny day with all of you? Can you say with a straight face, as a promoter of a show, you would not do better in Columbia if you put Tony out of business in that city? All of his cities? Could he say that about you? Has he said things about your show or taken some cheap shots at it in his newsletter. Yup. Was is it the perfect, most professional thing to do? Nope. Have you done the same? Yup. Here in this forum? Yup. It really doesent matter if he did it first or you did. It is done and you have all participated. There is a lot at stake here. Real money and real livelihoods. I have been fairly critical of some of Tony's actions, to Tony not the world, of late. I have been publicly critical of Cathy once that I can remember on this forum. I have tried to give him (Tony) some helpful critique on some of his detail oriented shortcomings. One of the things I have said to him about all of this is the following: It is business. Relatively big business with lots at stake. Be a professional, smile at them, shake their hands, invite them to your shows. Crush them. At the end of the day they are your BUSINESS opponent. Not your PERSONAL opponent. A fine but important distinction for us all. You do not need to make fun of them, critique them, or even acknowledge them if you don't want to but you must crush them with a bigger, better show. If you do not then make no mistake, they will crush you without a second thought and you will have deserved it. Get a job at the 7/11. Tony's success in past years and failures in recent times have spawned a new generation of competitors. It is his own fault for allowing them any room at all. Tough. He will have to get over it. Just as it was Randy McKnight's own fault for leaving Tony room to get into Columbia a few years ago. Now Tony must adapt, adjust and overcome. Or fail. He will improve or he will be gone. All of you promoting shows, especially Tony, in this now apparently very competitive field will need thicker skins if you want to play in the big league. Adapt and overcome. Or don't. Personal emails between promoters are just that. I have been told to go $@#% myself by plenty of people over the years and returned the favor on more than one occasion. Who hasn't? Any of you heard about it on a public forum? Should you? Perhaps we need a show sponsored cage match for the side show at the next Columbia show? I also have read here a few times about "threats" made to vendors by Tony if you were to do another show. I have personally caught static from Tony one time, after the first Cathy Columbia show. It was in NO WAY even close to a threat or anything like it. Just static. I told him to shove it and if I heard it again I wouldn't be doing any more of his shows. Real simple. I then explained it very simply. My full time job is reptiles. If there is a show in my backyard I HAVE to at least check it out. I am failing in my own business if I do not. It didn't offer me anything any better than his so now I am not at it. Simple choice really. I recognize as a vendor you can not slice a market into 3, 4 or 5 pieces unless someone creates a better pie. It is currently my opinion the only show that can survive in the Columbia market any more is a small one day affair. If the new show did offer me something better (pay attention competing promoters) I would still be doing BOTH shows or just the new show. I am friendly and professional with Tony and if told me he didn't like it I would say too bad. He was frustrated and felt threatened because his business is potentially at stake and from then on expressed it to me in a more professional manner. Maybe some of the vendors need to get a backbone? Maybe some of the vendors read more into a statement like that than they should? I don't know because I haven't heard it. Believe me, it isn't because my head is in the sand or up my ass, it is because I wont tolerate that crap from anyone on any topic. They (promoters) need us (vendors) as much as we need them. They know it and I know it. I put my money where my mouth is too. I have recently decided not to attend a certain promoters Virginia/Maryland shows, and there are a bunch of them (shows), because he didn't want me selling thermostats and heat tape. I might compete with him at his own show. Conflict of interest? He is a weak joke. Looking at that show, he needed me more than I needed him. I look forward to a competing promoter in that area. Hint, Hint!

And to the genius who claims Tony owes him an explanation on this thread several posts back-The only time Tony, or any promoter, owes you anything at all is when you pay to come in the door at their show. If you don't like the show, then don't come back to their show. Select a different show. Thats all they owe you. Or, grow a set and start your own show. If you base your life decisions on a gossip column, then good luck. Just because you can type and want your voice heard here doesn't mean anyone owes you anything. Unless you paid to post on this site Webslave doesent OWE you the ability to post here at all. He provides it as a free service and I would guess (I said guess!) entertainment as well. This armchair quarterback stuff is weak. How about we all make choices about the shows we will attend as vendors or customers based on our needs, loyalties and the like and quit this mudslinging crap. The best will survive either way and we may still have an intact market, maybe a better market, when it is done.

Very well said, Rich...even the part where you were scolding me lol. You know what pisses me off though? You brought up heat tape. I meant to get some off of you at the Atlanta show but I forgot lol. I'll snag some off ya in Columbia.

Very well said Rich

Coming down on Roark for having an opinion? What makes your posts any different?Roark may be a professional, but he's also human. The only good thing I can say about you, Rich, is that you do have nice products to sell & your snakes are awesome. But you wait until trashing has stopped before you start posting? This post was originally started as The Atlanta Show. It seems to me that you're doing the same thing everyone else is. Simply posting your opinion.

I thought a cricket's lifespan was 5-6 weeks. Why is this one still chirping? :-P

Hello All,
Without trying to fuel an already flaming thread or offending anyone. I would just like to state that yes this thread can be damaging to the industry/shows especially if the wrong eyes see it... But I can not condemn nor criticize someone for defending themselves against slanderous and verbal assaults. Some of you have stated that most of the above posts and responses should have been handled privately... I would second that, but when someone bashes you and your ideals/morals/creditability/professionalism/business savvy, etc. publicly I see no other way to defend yourself but in the same manner especially if they will not accept any private modes of communications.
Alot has been said about the so-called, "mudslinging", but very little has been stated about a possible solution or solutions. I am in no way an expert or Dr. Phil but this is what has worked for me in my everyday life and especially when it comes to the reptile hobby in general. It's actually simple. I listen, read , view,research, etc. a subject matter that I am interested in and I take what I like or what works for me and leave the rest. I guess the perfect analogy or example of this would be akin to going to some social event that has a sampler platter. You may try one of everything but only eat what you like and leave the rest. I find by using this formula that I don't burn bridges that I may be in need of someday to cross again. Another thing that I have thought of but it was already in play at an S.E.R.C. event was a general survey of vendors and attendees on what they would like to see or changed in the show. I think that is a great idea. Times are always changing and so are tastes and trends and a general survey keeps you abreast of possible improvements.
Well, enough of my spill. I hope it added some food for thought. It is only my opinion and take on things.

~Todd

Just had a nice long talk with Roark, he was nice enough to call me this evening. Mostly to fill me in on some things I already had worked out for myself and a few that I hadn't. My only "argument" with him in, or out, of this little circus was his jumping into the fray with the pinoccio statement because I know he is smarter than to jump into this mess and fan it on further. On the phone this evening I would have to say he is still the professional I know him to be and I would hope he feels the same about me. Funny thing, looks to me like both of us have posted maybe two times in this whole show war that has been going on. OK, I know this is now my third, I think. Maybe fourth. Who knows. Anyhow it would seem his misinterpretation/ misunderstanding of the earlier post that was less than clear got the better of him and his good sense. Seems he has been caught in the middle of the dumbness and had enough. Can't blame him a bit and I am guilty of it too by even posting here at all. Though I may fail from time to time, I have tried hard to stay on topics that I have read on this and related threads or seen and heard myself. Not gossip I have heard or things I think may be so.
I guess what bugged me about it is, like me, he has had little or nothing to do publicly with this and got suckered in. That is what broke the camels back for me. He was one of the few I thought wouldn't be. He made an inside joke that a few would understand (yes, I got it in the first place) and the masses would not and frankly should not have to understand in the first place. A public forum like this is seen by the masses and this doesen't look too pretty. We are all off on tangents irellevant to the issue here, name calling, posts of emails, etc. I would say Roark and I very much agree in principle on this whole thing though. PLEASE- ALL PROMOTERS move on from this and make better shows because of it or in spite of it. Strive to beat your opponent with hard work, improvement and dedication. Crush the business opponent, confuse them with facts and better performance on your part and leave the circus behind. It may sound nasty but it really doesen't have to be and WILL improve things for everyone. It will be a level and professional playing field that we can all play on and know where we stand. If the circus tries to follow you then run faster but dont become one of them no matter how tempting or how wronged you feel you are. It will only make it worse! Mudslinging, especially when it has been slung at you first, will only lead to more mudslinging. Human nature. May the strongest and best survive be it Tony, Cathy, Roark, or the Masked Avenger yet unseen.

Audry, a forum is pretty much a place to post opinions and information on a given topic. Yes I did this. Yes, others have done it. Just because we can do something doesen't mean that we always should. Like many things it comes with responsibility and at a price. It is no co incidence I waited until the end. The horse has been beaten, shot, hacked to bits and degraded into all sorts of ugly things and I am not directly involved in any of it nor do I want to be. I have no first hand knowledge on much of this so for me to comment on something, even if I believe it, is hearsay. That only clouds the issue further. Go look at the endless threads on the BOI. My opinions I have stated are of the overall harm I think that the overparticipation and the mudslinging that has been going on is doing to our business. Can we not have an opinion without a circus? If I call you a name are you compelled to respond? Will it help? Will it vindicate you? As I suggested earlier, there are other forums and other means to convey these opinions that either really do not need to be paraded in front of our patrons or don't belong here. Webslave has been quite generous to provide us with plenty of outlets to express ourselves.

Now, in the spirit of this forum, will someone please do something more in the Virginia market?? The guy running the majority of those shows right now doesen't want me to sell heat tape and Helix and doesen't seem to feel that more vendors at his show will improve it. The impression that he gave me was that he likes his little monopoly. I disagree with both viewpoints. This I have seen and heard with my own eyes and ears. I will not tell him how to run his show, nor will I run one of my own. I will choose to no longer attend as a vendor or patron. I am merely seeking good alternatives and I will wait if need be. Pennsylvania is a long way for me and it is cold up there. Thats why I moved south. Well that and property taxes.

Rich, Just and FYI, The show you attended wasn't Cathys. It was Lisa & Jason Campbell's.