Calientedragons - Rankin Dragons

Originally Posted by calientedragons

You were send RANKIN'S and that’s what you got, you got what was advertised!
Heidi

Heidi, are you 100% sure that the rankins you have and are selling are pure rankins?

Seems like many rankins in the hobby today are crosses.

I would like to clarify something as well. My request #3 from my previous post for a photo of "your pure Rankin(s)" was directed toward Wendy who stated she already has a pure Rankin female. I know she has two photos on her website, but they are not full body shots.

Also, several of the links Wendy posted for photos (the "ours" and "yours") apparently don't work, at least for me.

Originally Posted by calientedragons

You were send RANKIN'S and that’s what you got, you got what was advertised!

Heidi

Maybe not, the likelyhood of rankins being crossed with pogona vitticeps is extremely high.

Whether you knew it or not its still a strong possiblity.

You got what I advertised, I sent you two RANKINS! You can argue all you want but in no way did I miss-lead you. If in fact they have bearded dragon lines in generations down the line, It is impossible to know that.

Your post on bearded dragon.org seems to lead us to believe you think its possible that your rankins are not 100% pure? its a safe bet they are not.

I am going to attempt to reply to everyone in one post. I need to clarify one thing. I think my baby is related to the babies with color that she posted for sale on Fauna. I do not think the baby is related to the adult male I got. I do however have concerns about both "rankins" she sold me. The adult, because he has cartiledge in his neck that rankins dont have, and the baby because I believe it's siblings look hybrid.

Spyder- To compare reptiles to dogs in dealing with paperwork is insane. We have bloodline documents, breeder pics, owners names, numbers, emails for some of our dragons that extends 10 years backwards of bloodline history. There are dragon breeders who have even longer documentation. And, I know some snake breeders who would take seriuos offense to what youve said. Snake breeders are VERY serious about bloodlines and paperwork. Being organized, caring about the bloodlines, and preventing inbreeding is easy to do, IF YOU CARE.

Dragonhut- You had good info and photos on your site. People seem shocked at the likelyhood that their are hybrids made. I had no intention of dragging you in the coversation. Based on the photos on your site it appears you have 100% rankins, and are in fact selling one. Thats all.

Laura B,- the photos and the Kingsnake ad we purchased from are "expired", she no longer has them listed for sale. I did include the text from the ad, which was in my kingsnake email reply. Sorry thats all I have. "Rankin's Dragon AKA Lawsons Dragons! Out Of New Imported Lines! - Imported line unrelated to any Current US LInes~$200 each + Shipping" http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?de=699656&cat=51

I have brought all 3 "Rankins" here to the shop where the camera is to take photos. My female I had, the male and baby she sent. I will do that now and ad a page to our site to upload and then post the link here in a few.

I have spoke at length to 1/2 of the purchasing entity of the "Rankins" and here is the story. A guy and another financial partner purchased the rankins from someone in the UK that got them from someone, that someone only has a first name and a know location as the "UK".So lets call him "John Doe". John Doe sold a big group of rankins to a dealer who imported them to the US to 2 guys who then sold some of them to Caliente. No one has any info on "John Dos" Rankins. Where he got them, if he breed them, if they are hybrids, or if they are REALLY unrelated to the U.S. bloodlines. The seller to Caliente has asked he not be posted here and I respect that. Although he and I disagree on hybids...........he doesnt think hybrids can be breed or continue breeding for generations. I know that first hand to be untrue. He did agree though that "there is some "genetic junk" floating around with these guys from years of breeding from a small gene pool".


The bottom line is that there is no way of verifying even the breeders of these "Rankins" and there is no way of verifying that they are unrelated to the U.S. stock. I was not sold what was advertised.

Ok, to make a few things VERY clear

#1 I do not think Caliente Dragons are bad people as people.
#2 I do not think Caliente Dragons did the cross breeding to crate hybrids.
#3 I do not think Caliente Dragons knew they were selling hybrids.

What I do think is.........

#1 I do not think either of these "Rankins" are pure blood.
#2 I do think that they were listed incorrectly as being "unrelated to any U.S. bloodlines" there is NO documentation of that.

As I have said, I had no prior reason to think Caliente Dragons didn't know what they were talking about. The overhead shot of the male she sent me appeared to be all rankin. Odviously I didnt see the cartiledge in his neck in that photo, and had no reason to suspect otherwise. I also did NOT see photos of colored babies, had i seen either of these things I would not have made the purchase.

Here is a link to all the photos. http://www.freewebs.com/rivercityreptiles/fauna.htm

Caliente Dragons- you are the one who offered us a refund if we sent them back. Then you followed that by an email saying you wouldnt refund, then on the phone you said you would refund, now I get another email saying you wont. My dispute was with you not refunding shipping costs. Now you have changed your mind 4 times. This is rediculous. I am sending them back tommorrow AS AGREED, and you will refund me or I will dispute it. You have no posted terms of service on your website or your ads so you have no recourse. I did not get sold what was advertised, if you are so confident in what you have, it shouldnt be a problem reselling them to someone else.

EMAIL I JUST RECIEVED.

On Sun, 7/19/09, www.calientedragons.com <calientedragons@msn.com> wrote:


From: www.calientedragons.com <calientedragons@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Message about: Rankin\\\\\\\'s Dragon AKA Lawsons Dragons!
To: "Jeane Best" <dragonlady99212@yahoo.com>
Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 9:46 AM


Don’t bother sending them back, you will NOT get a refund!

Heidi

The one thing that i can say is 100% true as an outsider on this deal is that if she mails those back to you and disputes the charges you will have no way of winning the arguement as there is nothing listed on your site stating "no refunds" or "refunds available minus the cost of shipping"
Do i think the purchaser is handling this correctly no but you are kinda stuck with having to let the money go when the dispute is raised via paypal due to lack of written info on your site concerning refunds.

OK so I guess there would be no way to prove that they are "Pure" there is probably no "Pure" Rankin's. I don't know anyone who does DNA testing. I have also never DNA tested any bearded dragon. Nor have I or anyone I know been to Australia and brought any animals back.

I also never advertised them as "Pure DNA tested" Rankin's, just new imported bloodlines.

Here is the add you responded on

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=51&de=699656

that is the exact add I just re posted it..

Why would you purchase them with out asking any background or for photos if it is all that important?

Look at the pictures, you would not call them Rankin's?

Should everyone in the past who bought Rankin's off you get a refund for assuming they were "Pure".

Yes I did agree to give you a refund because you were unhappy with them, even though I sent what I told you I was sending, but do you honestly think I still should after all you have done? You wanted a discount so that you could re-sell them at your store?

I am not in the practice of returning animals into my home after they have left. I don not know what you have done to them. Should I really take that chance? I warranty HEALTH, and would refund or replace any unhealthy animal within 7 days. READ THE TERMS on the web-store. http://www.shopcalientedragons.com

You can go on and on about this, but I really don’t care, waste your time all you want, I have worked hard to make my customers happy, even tried with you. If any one has any questions, please feel free to email me directly.

Here is the direct link to the policy page:

http://stores.homestead.com/hstrial-...olicy/Page.bok


Yes i know it is generic but it is there and has been there unaltered!

i wasnt looking at the top lol i was looking on your main site and the sides. The policy statement on your site is very straight forward. And shows that you are in your right to deny refund.