MARK MILLER IS A THIEF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by rockyballboa

Not sure how this will end up but i had a message on my answering machine today when i came home from Mark Miller asking for my info so he can issue a refund to me.
I will keep everyone posted on how things turn out.
Todd Peddle

I wonder what could have possibly happened recently that would leave enough money in Mark's pocket to refund your money...hmmmm...

Originally Posted by raybueno

Even if it couldn't be prosecuted wouldn't you feel bad getting something you knew DID NOT belong to the person selling it to you. I for one would NEVER knowingly do this. Aquring anything this way shows what kind of ethics, morals, and integrity you have.

First of all, as I stated at the beginning of my post, I agree with you. There is no need to call into question my morals, ethics, or integrity.

Second: you bring up a valid point when you ask "something you knew DID NOT belong to the person selling it to you"

By legal definition "receiving stolen property" is:

Receiving stolen goods is generally buying or acquiring the possession of property knowing (or believing in some jurisdictions) that it had been obtained through theft, embezzlement, larceny, or extortion by someone else. The crime is separate from the crime of stealing the property. To be convicted, the receiver must know the goods were stolen at the time he receives them and had the intent to aid the thief.

Third: Until your "contract" is validated by a legal authority, the courts for example, it is still your word against his. You said yourself that the detective that talked to him said that he accused you of breach of contract. Which leads us back to my original statement that this is really a civil matter. Don't take my word for it though, contact the prosecutor in Kansas and ask him to issue a warrant for his arrest based on your contract and let us know how that goes....

Originally Posted by DaveyFig

I wonder what could have possibly happened recently that would leave enough money in Mark's pocket to refund your money...hmmmm...

hmmmm indeed

Originally Posted by raybueno

Randall,

You didn't happen to get a picture of the male with the kink?

Laura,

Anyone who does aquire them in any way is guilty of receiving stolen property. I have a hunch one or both of them have already been sent to a good friend of Mark. I wont say the name until I have proof, but when I do get proof everyone will know.

Sorry, I do not. I will ask a good friend if they snapped a pic of it though, if so I will email it to you.

Originally Posted by Gecko_Den

First of all, as I stated at the beginning of my post, I agree with you. There is no need to call into question my morals, ethics, or integrity.

Second: you bring up a valid point when you ask "something you knew DID NOT belong to the person selling it to you"

By legal definition "receiving stolen property" is:

Receiving stolen goods is generally buying or acquiring the possession of property knowing (or believing in some jurisdictions) that it had been obtained through theft, embezzlement, larceny, or extortion by someone else. The crime is separate from the crime of stealing the property. To be convicted, the receiver must know the goods were stolen at the time he receives them and had the intent to aid the thief.

Third: Until your "contract" is validated by a legal authority, the courts for example, it is still your word against his. You said yourself that the detective that talked to him said that he accused you of breach of contract. Which leads us back to my original statement that this is really a civil matter. Don't take my word for it though, contact the prosecutor in Kansas and ask him to issue a warrant for his arrest based on your contract and let us know how that goes....

I'm not questioning you at all just making a statement.

I also want to clarify, there is not a contract between Mark and I for this breeding. We had a contract for his male to be bred to my female. No contract or agreement ever happened in regard to my male being bred to my female. I was never informed this happened until well after Mark had already done it.

As far as theft by receiving goes aquiring possession of something known to you to be stolen is theft by receiving. You dont have to have the intent to aid the thief for it to be that.

Thank you for you information.

Originally Posted by Randall Turner

Sorry, I do not. I will ask a good friend if they snapped a pic of it though, if so I will email it to you.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know, just a thought. Obviously Mark is still doing shows. If someone had the time, I reckon they could notify the show organizers and let them know not just of this situation but the numerous other one's that Mark is involved in. If I was an organizer, I would not want this type of individual to have a table at my show. Anyways, just a thought for anyone out there with time to kill.

Griz

Here is the signed contract. I hope this helps everyone to see why we feel these animals are STOLEN.

Nowhere on there does it say anything about OUR male motley being bred to OUR female snow.

By the way... Thank you James for resizing the contract for me so I could put it here for everyone to see.

Originally Posted by Griz

You know, just a thought. Obviously Mark is still doing shows. If someone had the time, I reckon they could notify the show organizers and let them know not just of this situation but the numerous other one's that Mark is involved in. If I was an organizer, I would not want this type of individual to have a table at my show. Anyways, just a thought for anyone out there with time to kill.

Griz

The show being referenced in the Kansas City Reptile Show. Jason Cruse (member name here is GoLizards) is the organizer. I did not realize that LocoLizards was still vending at this show or I would have attended (after seeing if your t-shirts were still available) ...

Originally Posted by Griz

I have t-shirts that will be available shortly for Daytona and Tinley Park. Black t-shirts with florescent wording:

LOCOLIZARDS
We're not Loco
We're just thieves

$9.95 shipped

Griz