Aprylla Hall - Bad Guy

"Shawn, you should have waited til after 8-2-2005 before you decided to file a complaint, and then you should have waited for the refund to go through before you came here and shot your wad for the second time." ME

Actually, If you had waited for the refund to go through there would have been no need to come here with this...

I have sat here and read this entire thread word for exhausting word. With that said, here is my input, as little as it may be worth.

Aprylla, I am sorry to hear about your unfortunate circumstances. I live in Tornado Alley and can relate to the fear, confusion, and tragedy that mother nature knows how to inflict.

As far as the paypal freeze goes, I really haven't made up my mind on that one yet. But, I can see how Shawn could have gotten nervous about this transaction, especially if he had never dealt with the seller before. I don't think it was wrong for him to post an inquiry on Aprylla (after searching for any prior posts on her, of course), but I do believe that emotions let this thread get blown out of proportion.

It sounds as if Aprylla has explained herself very thoroughly and is willing to give an immediate refund if the freeze is lifted from the Paypal account. Shawn doesn't want to lift the freeze, for fear he will not get refunded. But, realize this, Shawn. You still are without the refund, even with the freeze. You are only hurting yourself now. There may have been a time when the freeze was appropriate, but now is not the time. Take Aprylla's reputation, prior to this incident, into account and make a decision. Either trust that she will refund the money and lift the freeze, or don't lift the freeze and you are still without the money.

Neither of you seem to be a "BAD GUY" to me. That's my own opinion, of course. But, bad things that are uncontrollable to us DO HAPPEN. It is how you handle yourself during the course of events that tell of your character. I believe that Aprylla would have gotten back to you if she hadn't been running for her life. The fact that she took the animals with her, while hindsight shows it might have been better to leave them behind, only shows her committment to these animals to be stronger to me, IMHO.

Anyhow, hopefully you make the right call, whatever it may be and this whole thing gets worked out. Best of luck to both of you.

Originally Posted by pch101

"The complaint was filed when she responded to my request for verification without supplying a phone number to verify the breeder and stating she would be away from her computer."

So you filed a complaint with paypal and froze up her account over a verification issue that SHOULD have been discussed before the deal was ever sealed and money was sent. Smart move... The deal was done. You had no business making additional demands. The deal was not for CB Snakes with papers from the original breeder. It was for cb ball pythons. If you needed some sort of verification, you should have made the request BEFORE the deal was finalized.

"I would think it would be easy for all to understand that it looked like an excuse or a delay tactic (or at least could have been) which would provide her the time to empty her account and leave me helpless."

What it looked like or could have been is really irrelevant. You acted impulsively, and yes, in my opinion you did jump the gun with your complaint. Did you ever call her? I think she more than explained things to you during the situation and after.

"It was only AFTER that she explained that she did not want to provide a number for the breeder because she felt she would be compromising her wholesale source."

Again, was the original deal contingent on her providing you some sort of proof? You should realize that most brokers do not give out the contact info to their wholesale sources for obvious reasons. If you as a buyer do not like this, than you as a buyer always have the option to pass on the deal, and deal with someone else. After you send money, you cannot make additional demands and then file a complaint with paypal because she would not give you that Information. She offered to send you replacements and some extras for your trouble. If you did not like it or if you felt it too fishy, I would not fault you for one second, but you should have simply asked for a refund instead of filing the complaint.

"I was still willing to wait for the shipment (not "jump the gun" pch101) at this point however, she fails to tell you that she still refused to ship the snakes unless I canceled the complaint."

Are you not listening to her? Apparently she is broke due to some unfortunate circumstances. Circumstances that she made you aware of. Then you froze her only access to any funds that she had. She could send through UPS, but If I were her, I would not either. I would just wait for the refund and be done with you for good.

"I'm sure that everyone has had experience with people that have lied to them by contradicting themselves and that was the way they were caught- in their inconsistencies."

I think you are a little paranoid and impulsive, and I think that you became your own worst enemy.

"I'm not saying she DID lie, just that is was another very suspicious pattern in a circumstance that contained MANY suspicious circumstances."


All you needed to do was just turn on CNN. There was indeed a Hurricane...

"I explained this to her and apologized by telling her I could not cancel the complaint until I actually received the animals-"

COULD not remove it? Don't you mean WOULD not remove it? So what was it that was the problem here. She set up a time with you to ship the animals and explained everything, and you still filed a complaint because you did not get the additional info that you felt you were entitled to. Well, you were not.

"after all, she had the money and the merchandise and was telling me she could not trust ME! "

Actually, I would not trust you at this point either. For such a suspicious guy. surely you can see that it looks as though you are attempting to take advantage of the situation and double dip just like the previous customer did to her. Not saying that you would, but it certainly could be looked that way. See my point...

"Aprylla and pch101 are obviously friends and even quote each other with the "Jumping the gun" phrase. "

Here is a perfect example of your "gun jumping" ways. I was and have been very objective here. I have maintained through this entire thread that I felt you acted too early with the complaint. However, I have been very critical of Aprylla throughout most of this thread, even though you had provided us with no evidence (up until just now by way of Jim) of anything even after being asked to do so repeatedly. Now that she has come here it is quite clear to me why you are in this situation. You tried to kick her while she was down because you could not get the info that you wanted after the deal was already done, and in kicking her you ended up breaking your foot in the process and crippling the both of you. Now, let me explain one last thing to you Mr. quick draw McGraw. I have never dealt with , or spoken to Aprylla that I am aware of. We are not friends, and I assume she quoted me, because I have such a great way words with words! I think this thread is just an example of your inexperience and quickness to jump to false conclusions. I have some advice for you, if you do not trust someone than do not make deals with them.

You keep mentioning "the original deal", problem is once the original animals are not available the "original deal" is null and void. I to think this should have elevated at a much slower rate. However, he has every right to be worried about where his product/money is.

Originally Posted by Borewyrm

You keep mentioning "the original deal", problem is once the original animals are not available the "original deal" is null and void. I to think this should have elevated at a much slower rate. However, he has every right to be worried about where his product/money is.

I do agree with the "origianl deal" was voided, but when asked if he would accept replacement snakes of same or better qualiry, the Buyer agreed. But then *afterwards* he starting throwing new stipulation into the mix.

Also, just a side note. Mr, Gilbert did buy these sight unseen, so he did not buy snakes he had seen in a photo and picked his own or anything. I was only to send him 20 CB female 2005 ball pythons that were guaranteed feeding. There was no decision by himin the original deal to choose snakes with a particular pattern, colro or anything. Just 20 normal female ball pythons, nothing more or less.

I also do agree that I would be concerned if I were in his shoes, definitely. However, if the roles were reversed and I were the Buyer, I would have given the Seller until the August 1st date to ship and receive the reptiles on August 2nd since I still would have been well within my time-frame with PayPal to file a complaint if it was necessary at that point.

I tried to work this out, but the Buyer was so quick to file a complaint I never had a chance to really do anything. The complaint was filed only 9 days after payment was sent and during those 9 days I wasn't here for more than half that time during the hurricane evac which I explained earlier.

I never complained, not even once, when this Buyer took 5 days to pay me for the snakes after he had agreed to buy them. He told me when he did pay that he'd had issues with his house that took a while to get back in order. I understood that and I understood that things can and usually do happen.

So sorry I forgot to Spell Check that last entry. Uugghh...thats what happend when I try to type really fast.

"You keep mentioning "the original deal", problem is once the original animals are not available the "original deal" is null and void. I to think this should have elevated at a much slower rate. However, he has every right to be worried about where his product/money is."

The original animals and the replacment animals are one and the same. However, you it was the original deal. However, when told of the situation, and given the choice of a refund or replacment snakes, he chose the snakes and then decided to start making unreasonable demands. She told him she would not give that info, and boom he filed a complaint with no warning. That action was unwarranted and a chickens#!t move on his part. He chose to do this instead of just saying the magic words "I want my money back". And all because She would not give out her whosaler's info. It does not surprise me as he started this thread even after he was promised a refund. This situation would be totally avoidable if this buyer knew anything about how this buying and selling in this hobby works. It is apparent that he does not, and he caused a lot of greif for himself and Aprylla. He ended cutting off his nose to spite his face. I do understand his worry, but he is the one that made the choice to deal with someone he obviously did not trust.

Shawn

Your concern was justified initially. However, a reasonable explanation has been provided and verified buy third parties. The sympathy level directed at you has pretty much dried up. You jumped the gun, plain and simple.

You have two options.

1.) Let Paypal run through their bureaucratic crap for a month or so and then issue the refund that you know Aprylla has already requested.

2.) Act like a responsible adult, lift the complaint, and expedite both your refund and Aprylla's financial recovery.

There really isn't a third option.

If you have checked her out on this board you will find that her reputation is excellent. That should be enough of a reference.

I have to say also that the only one who is coming off unsympathetic at this point is you.

By the way, I have never met or spoken to Aprylla before so don't start the "she's obviously your friend" routine

Originally Posted by Aprylla

I do agree with the "origianl deal" was voided, but when asked if he would accept replacement snakes of same or better qualiry, the Buyer agreed. But then *afterwards* he starting throwing new stipulation into the mix.

Also, just a side note. Mr, Gilbert did buy these sight unseen, so he did not buy snakes he had seen in a photo and picked his own or anything. I was only to send him 20 CB female 2005 ball pythons that were guaranteed feeding. There was no decision by himin the original deal to choose snakes with a particular pattern, colro or anything. Just 20 normal female ball pythons, nothing more or less.

I also do agree that I would be concerned if I were in his shoes, definitely. However, if the roles were reversed and I were the Buyer, I would have given the Seller until the August 1st date to ship and receive the reptiles on August 2nd since I still would have been well within my time-frame with PayPal to file a complaint if it was necessary at that point.

I tried to work this out, but the Buyer was so quick to file a complaint I never had a chance to really do anything. The complaint was filed only 9 days after payment was sent and during those 9 days I wasn't here for more than half that time during the hurricane evac which I explained earlier.

I never complained, not even once, when this Buyer took 5 days to pay me for the snakes after he had agreed to buy them. He told me when he did pay that he'd had issues with his house that took a while to get back in order. I understood that and I understood that things can and usually do happen.

Sounds like this marraige was just never meant to be Hope you two can come to a mutually satisfactory agreement. BTW I am sorry for your loss of animals.... and your car.

Originally Posted by pch101

...The original animals and the replacment animals are one and the same. However, you it was the original deal. However, when told of the situation, and given the choice of a refund or replacment snakes, he chose the snakes and then decided to start making unreasonable demands....

First post in this entire thread says they are not the same ones. It says they are all dead.

"First post in this entire thread says they are not the same ones. It says they are all dead."

UGH! Yes, What I am saying is that for all intensive purposes the "second" deal was for the exact same thing, and that was a group of CB feeding female ball pythons. He never saw any pics or had any color or pattern preferances. So, basically he was getting the same exact thing. Just the second time around he decided he wanted documentation on Normal ball pythons (now there is a joke) and then he wanted the whosaler's contact info (an even bigger joke). Aprylla's only mistake in this was offering Shawn replacment animals. She should have just refunded him and not given him the option.