Crappy Shipping Practices-Kevin Olbrych owner Suncoast Reptiles

What I meant by "off the hook" was both torts arrived alive unlike my last shipment so he was no liable to refund me for any loss of life. I did request refund of the shipping because I was mad he made me a party to such a cheap, potentially dangerous and no doubt terrifying trip for the babies when I had made it clear I expected better for them. The price included shipping so I doubt I have a leg to stand on and he's definitely not a stand up kind of guy going to offer anything to bring any kind of peace to this transaction. I am planning on taking the shipping box to the central post office here in my town on Monday to see what if any involvement they can/will take. It does not appear that the box was recycled. There does not appear to have been any label or writing on it (or rather in it since it's inside out). It appears he walked into his local USPS and took a box that they have out for their patrons and attempted to disguise it by turning it inside out to hide the large dark PRIORITY MAIL labels and then covered the box in brown packing tape to hide the less obvious inner labels. As far as stating they were at 68 at that point I was thinking of my Hermanns requirements in which 68 would have been pretty cold for them considering by nearly 1pm here it was in the 70's meaning they were cooler overnight but once again my Hermanns requirements are warmer.

I will hear back from FedEx after they do their investigation and can update this here. Like me they were not happy to hear their service was being abused.

The 68F temperature is a non-issue. That especially goes for Hermann's tortoises, too, whose requirements for shipping are *not* warmer. A Hermann's tortoise could very safely drop far, far lower, and they often experience a more significant nighttime drop outside in wild conditions. The cherries that are actively being discussed are likewise fine with a 68F dip, although sitting them at 68F for a string of several days in damp conditions (which is not the scenario here) could trigger the start of an URI. However, the 68F period was brief, not in damp conditions, and is a safe temp for transit.

The packaging concerns are valid, so I would avoid mixing a non-issue (68F temperature) in with that discussion. To that end, insulation would assist with gradual change if there were some sort of more extreme temperature changes outside of the box.

I'm not excusing his horrible packing job by any means. However I did want to point out that FedEx priority overnight in some areas is only guaranteed by 4:30. I have had this come up with several shipments. Of course when this happens I notify the customer and try to arrange pick up at the hub.

I'd have to agree with Nick that 68F is a non-issue considering the much more pressing issue of LIVE ANIMAL PACKAGING at hand; i just wanted to call it out there as it DOES tie in with the underlying consideration with shipping reptiles is that they are poikilotherms who do not have a circulatory system like us homeotherms that helps 'buffer' the body between cold and hot environmental temps, thus insulation is important not necessarily for keeping our repts 'warm' but moreso for avoiding quick temp changes - in either direction.

based on the OPer's unboxing video, insulation is totally absent; i would agree in this day and age with shipping containers especially for shipping live animals readily available, shipping live animals without them is negligent.

" both torts arrived alive unlike my last shipment " <--- now i'm wondering where were those from and is there an unboxing video available for the/those DOA(s), whoever they were from! =D

i'd also question as to whether the 'included shipping' by FedEx is actually authorized for reptiles, as Fedex website makes it clear that:

http://www.fedex.com/us/government/i...ml#liveanimals

"Live Animals

FedEx does not accept live animal shipments as part of its regularly scheduled service. Live animals will be accepted when the shipment is coordinated and approved by the FedEx Live Animal Desk. Acceptable shipments include, but are not limited to, zoo animals (to and from zoo locations only) and horses (from gateway to gateway locations only). Household pets, such as domestic cats and dogs, and live fish are not accepted. For more information, contact the FedEx Live Animal Desk at 1.800.405.9052."

and i mean, heck, why not use fedex boxes with fedex?!

Originally Posted by Karma Kritters

I'm not excusing his horrible packing job by any means. However I did want to point out that FedEx priority overnight in some areas is only guaranteed by 4:30. I have had this come up with several shipments. Of course when this happens I notify the customer and try to arrange pick up at the hub.

I run into this, too. Most places by 10:30am, some by 12:00pm, and fewer still by 4:30pm. I typically do not find this out until after I have paid for the label and it has been created. If running through riskier temperatures, I shoot for the same with a hub option I coordinate with FedEx and the buyer. If within reasonable thermal conditions, I just trust my typical packaging to perform in the manner it is supposed to.

I am actually good friends with Kevin!!! He is a great guy. Never had problems. He sells at a lot of shows and is pretty reputable. Maybe he was in a hurry or maybe someone else shipped them for him. Turtles and tortoises are pretty hardy reptiles. Maybe the shipping could a been done a little different but just know that if they would have came in dead because of the way they were shipped then Kevin would have refunded you and apologized. So be glad that they came in good and healthy and alive and don't focused on all the "WHAT IF'S . The what its aren't important because they didn't happen.

FedEx told me they were guaranteed to me by 12pm and that he is 100% able to request a refund due to late delivery. As far as my previous shipment of baby Elongateds I also posted that disaster on Fauna http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=529271. I'm sorry I do not agree not to focus on the what if's. Dumpster diving for boxes or ripping off the boxes from the post office then sending these animals out without a shred of protection is cheap, cruel and shows an incredible lack of regard for life. It disrespects me as a purchaser because I made clear my wishes not that I should have had to because no one concerned about anything more than saving a buck or ignorant beyond measure would pull this crap. I can guarantee FedEX does NOT think what your friend pulled is funny one bit. I'm tempted to contact animal control yet involving them could spiral into something bigger perhaps making shipping reptiles illegal which would screw us all. I ship and even the $50 pet gecko get's a fully insulated box, deli cup, newspaper padding and heat if applicable. It's called COST OF DOING BUSINESS! If you can't afford it then do us all a favor and get out!

Originally Posted by Upcreek83

I am actually good friends with Kevin!!! He is a great guy. Never had problems. He sells at a lot of shows and is pretty reputable. Maybe he was in a hurry or maybe someone else shipped them for him. Turtles and tortoises are pretty hardy reptiles. Maybe the shipping could a been done a little different but just know that if they would have came in dead because of the way they were shipped then Kevin would have refunded you and apologized. So be glad that they came in good and healthy and alive and don't focused on all the "WHAT IF'S . The what its aren't important because they didn't happen.

1) He's your friend;

2) your subsequent opinion managed to surprise no one;

3) that's fantastic that he's a great guy to you. Unfortunately, nearly everyone has a "great" side, but in this instance we are only concerned with his non-great attributes, including but so far not limited to: not accepting responsibility for asinine shipping preparations, white washing the customer's concerns, and a hilarious outright refusal to actually state his side of the story and/or tell us WHY he thought two tiny boxes were acceptable to ship an animal whose body weight and density resembles that of a small rock.

This packaging is absolutely disgusting. No ifs or buts about it. Something as hefty as a tortoise should at a minimum be in an insulated/cushioned box. I have geckos/frogs/chameleons shipped to me, and they are always in an insulated box (the insulation helps to buffer the temperature change, regardless of season be it real cold or real warm), and almost always also include crunched up newspaper or magazine or bubble wrap. I've seen better shipping in feeder cockroach shipments, and people in that industry are all about the margins. I've never had turtles or tortoise shipped to me, but I guess I just assumed those guys (the people in that industry) simply provided what I'm accustomed to at the VERY LEAST.

As far as your underlined part, Jonathan:

Originally Posted by parrotlady

I purchased hatchlings from him as well and received them in the same type of boxes. My babies were not so lucky, I am glad yours survived. Apparently this is his standard method of shipping.

Perhaps you missed this on the first page ^.

Frank brings up an interesting point. 2 turtle shipments. Both, no insulation, no padding nothing to stop them from being crushed. I have shipped in at least a dozen Leopard Geckos from different breeders over the years. They all arrive looking like one person did the packaging. Do only gecko people give a crap and/or follow directions? I ship. I have a closet full of reptile box kits right now. My shipments look like all the ones I receive from others. I've never had a single complaint about shipping or an animal not arrive in excellent condition even when delivery has been delayed. Hell the boxes that would have easily contained these 2 run $4 through LLL Reptiles site. $4!!!! You can even buy the whole set up which includes deli cups/bags and heat for $6! Seriously he's too cheap to pony up $4-$6??? WTH is wrong with that picture. I'm not backing down on this. This was wrong and shows an arrogant disregard for life. I am going to keep "beating on doors" until somehow someone makes sure this doesn't happen to anyone else. I encourage each person to review these suppliers/shippers so we the public can make educated decisions when giving others our hard earned money. I'm going to Yelp next. I made the video public and if you type in his name or business it's available.

Originally Posted by imabirdmom

Frank brings up an interesting point. 2 turtle shipments. Both, no insulation, no padding nothing to stop them from being crushed. I have shipped in at least a dozen Leopard Geckos from different breeders over the years. They all arrive looking like one person did the packaging. Do only gecko people give a crap and/or follow directions? I ship. I have a closet full of reptile box kits right now. My shipments look like all the ones I receive from others. I've never had a single complaint about shipping or an animal not arrive in excellent condition even when delivery has been delayed. Hell the boxes that would have easily contained these 2 run $4 through LLL Reptiles site. $4!!!! You can even buy the whole set up which includes deli cups/bags and heat for $6! Seriously he's too cheap to pony up $4-$6??? WTH is wrong with that picture. I'm not backing down on this. This was wrong and shows an arrogant disregard for life. I am going to keep "beating on doors" until somehow someone makes sure this doesn't happen to anyone else. I encourage each person to review these suppliers/shippers so we the public can make educated decisions when giving others our hard earned money. I'm going to Yelp next. I made the video public and if you type in his name or business it's available.

I believe that most of us ship in a manner or style that is similar to what you know well from your gecko experiences. I used to keep and breed leopard geckos as well and the methodology for shipment was largely the same then for geckos as it is now for tortoises (outside of special provisions for larger/adult tortoises).

I sincerely hope you do not give up on receiving tortoise shipments, although I understand your reluctance to continue receiving them given the whole context across multiple shipments.