Chameleon Counters - Extremely Dangerous Bad Guys

Chameleon Counters
2205 E. HWY 190
Copperas Cove, TX 76522
(254) 542-8200
www.ChameleonCounters.com

I was intrested in the Gaboon vipers he had for sale on kingsnake.com. I inquired about them, and asked how he wanted to ship (given he was asking $40 for shipping).

He wants to ship the FED EX. Which is a lacey act violation (on his part and the receiver's part), an IATA violation and several other violations.

Avoid at all costs.

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=40&de=55859 <- ad I was inquiring about.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chameleon Counters" <chameleoncounters@hotmail.com>
To: <sawzoo@diplodactylus.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 3:45 AM
Subject: Re: Message about: WESTERN GABOON BABIES


> fed-x 2 left
>
>
>
> Chameleon Counters
> 2205 E. HWY 190
> Copperas Cove, TX 76522
> (254) 542-8200
> www.ChameleonCounters.com
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: sawzoo@diplodactylus.com
> >To: Chameleoncounters@hotmail.com
> >Subject: Message about: WESTERN GABOON BABIES
> >Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:52:32 -0600 (CST)
> >
> >Who do you use to ship? and how many gaboon babies are available.
> >
> >CoreyS
> >
> >----------------------------------------------
> >This message was sent by an unregistered or non logged in user.
> >
> >Sent 09:52 PM, Feb 04th, 2003 from I.P. Address 65.58.223.120
>
>
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A few months back, I had an idea about contacting FedEx to see exactly what their policy is pertaining to the shipment of live animals. From my discussions with their legal department (I can find my notes and get back in touch with you concerning exact names, dates, times etc.) FedEx **will** ship live animals on a case by case basis.....

The exceptions included, but were not limited to: I would have to sign a letter that would release FedEx from ANY liability for the welfare of the animals, and I would have to follow any and all regulations (IATA Being the important rules that I'd have to obey)... and I'd have to set up a special sort of account through the local (RIC Airport) in order to do all this...

Now, you might ask, why is he butting his nose into yet another thread that doesn't concern him??? Well.....I was in the process of finding out whether they'd accept *PROPERLY* boxed venomous shipments too, as they never stated any limitations on "dangerous" shipments outside of the "normally" accepted "dangerous" cargo that any other airline prohibits..... I got side-tracked and never followed up on the whole process.... I do intend to contact these folks and set up an account. It seems they don't mind doing business with people who properly package and label the contents of the packages, and who get PERMISSION to ship through their legal department. Again, this is not something that I wanted to make a big deal of, and I do not know whether the folks you contacted about the Gaboon vipers were being honest with FedEx..... I just wanted to offer another perspective (I don't know how all these things are affected by Lacey, BTW.... since the animals aren't endangered, or illegally acquired, but I'm sure someone will straighten me out on that one too) on the possibility that these folks may not be the outlaws you are warning us about after all....

Shipping illegally is unnecessary, and it has the potential for getting a shipping company employee seriously injured or killed. It has the postential of shutting down the legal shipping opportunities for many of us well.... I know I don't want to be the next person caught shipping through an unsuspecting carrier, and I also know that injuring or killing a FedEx, USPS, UPS, Airborne Express or other carrier's employee because of my laziness would be something that I don't know if I could live with. It is good that you point out the appearance of impropriety here, and I applaud you for not accepting any animals through unapproved carriers.... if we ALL refused to accept animals that way, then no one would be able to ship them like that, right?????

Just a few random thoughts on shipping, ethics and the potential impact if we'd all just say no to unacceptable business practices...

It is too easy to say yes when someone offers to ship right to the door, isn't it???

Peace......

Corey,
I commend you for doing the right thing and not following through with this transaction.
Those of us who choose to work with venomous reptiles do so with an understanding and acceptance of the personal risks involved. To endanger innocent outsiders (Fed Ex employees) is not only illegal but incredibly selfish.
You can bet that if they are willing to ship venomous snakes through Fed Ex, they aren't following any of the other security measures either (i.e. wooden crate, properly labeled, etc.)
These kind of irresponsible actions could not only get someone killed but do irreparable harm to a hobby that is already under fire.
Thanks for the heads up,
Chris Raden

Corey,

I would highly recombined contacting FED-Ex and informing them of this. It is too big of a risk to allow them to get away with such irresponsible behavior.

Thats was suupose to read recommend and not recombined. Sorry about that.
Corey,

Corey, I didn't think I would have to hunt you down like a slippery
slimmy slug.HaHa..........Now you want talk bad about me on this forum..I humbled myself.....I am now on track.....The fact is I never shipped a venomous snake with fed-ex..ever...and thats for all Fed ex workers not to worry.....Corey the Lacy Act ....I have
wood boxes and mark outside....Slow down........I'm still trying to
read thru the 50,777 documents on that subject....HaHa... Your
attitude is a little tight......Keith Northrop

Keith,

Glad to know you've figured out not to ship FedEx....but if you've never used them, how did you ship the other gaboon babies, or any other venomous that you've had? I hope you read the whole thread and understand why it's such a huge issue.

I know the regulations for venomous and protected species and such gets hairy, but if you're going to play the game, you have to learn the rules! Good luck getting through all those regulatory documents!

By the way, I went to see your website and I just have to say.....that anaconda.......he just doesn't like you, buddy! LOL

Hunt me down like a slug? Why would you have to hunt me down, I am very out spoken and public, lots of people know me, my phone numbers and email adresses are all over the internet.

Yes i did talk bad about you, I do not think highly of you. You seem to be running a commercial outlit, and trying to get your customers to participate in an illegal act with you.

Fedex will not accept wooden boxes marked venomous. Its an FFA violation to ship venomous with an un-approved shipper (its 2 am, memory slipping, might not of been FFA but its some government group).

Lacey act is a catch 22. Basicly if you violate any law regarding animals, and transport that animal accross state lines, you violate the lacey act. Go to jail, straight to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

My attitude is tight because I didnt want you to ship me animals illegally? That could put ME in a bad legal position. That makes sense.

You seem to think this is funny, why is violating a (several) major laws, and endangering people funny?

Corey Sawyer

P.S. anyone who knows how to ship legally, want to sell me gaboon viper?

Corey, your arrogance amazes me...We both must have thick skulls to keep all that pressure contained..You should get into politics,join the Bush team,help Powell convince Iraq to throw in the towel.Ha Ha....I never ever shipped a venomous snake period..I post for my local customer base.I am expanding.I will use
Delta.I've kept hots since I was 20 and I'm now 40..I will ship
legally.I ordered the 3wgabs,2egabs and a rhino from strictly on 11/10/02....just posted for the first time......Didn't expect such
response...Has anyone ever recieved a hot snake thru the mail from me....No absolutly not...Corey lets stay clear of any sharp
objects...ie..Gaboon fangs...HaHa..one little prick and all the stuff
in our heads splatters all over the place...the stuff is our words...no hard feelings....keith

For being 40 years old, and keeping hots as long as I have been alive, you are quite immature.