northwest reptiles / turtle problem

This is a photo taken the day of arrival , I did ask by email if the turtle was in good shape , I was told it was in very good shape , to be fair in this post I will say , my email was responed to on each question , the turtle arrived on time and was packed very well , the pic shows what a turtle in their opinion is in good shape and worth $40.00 plus $30.00 shipping the actual cost is less but I expect this , the main thing is the turtle gets to me of anyone else for that matter in good shape and is not harmed . I did email them back and asked that possibly for this turtle which I consider to be in far less than good shape there could be a cost adjustment made , I got no response , I also said that I would not bash him on this site , and this is not what I am doing , I emailed him again today and asked again adding I guess you are not interested in responding to me or going any further with this issue , enjoy the money and profits you made from the purchase at my expense and the turtles expense , I did ask in the first email if it was wild caught and how it was kept so I would have a better idea of what to do to treat this turtle , not for advise , just for info , today it is now swimming with a tilt , it will not eat which is to be expected even in a healthy turtle in the beginning , some adjustment is needed for the turtle to settle in , I understand this well indeed . My point is not to bash the dealer , it is to warn anyone from being trusting or inclined to purchase from northwest reptiles so you do not go through a disappointing experience , I did read the posts put up by a few others on this dealer and he did rectify a situation for Vic and others said they were happy so I gave him my trust and business . I do have the email sent and received as well as more photos , this should suffice . I have had this turtle since wed of this week 5/21/03

William Jahnkow

In a message dated 5/15/03 3:50:09 PM !!!First Boot!!!, catninejw@earthlink.net writes:



IS THIS ONE IN GOOD SHAPE IF I SENT PAYPAL NOW CAN YOU SHIP TODAY FOR FRIDAY ARRIVAL ?


This one is in really good shape,infortunatly I would not be able to ship on friday as you would not be delivered until monday...I could ship you on Tuesday of next week (We usually ship on Tuesday )my paypal account is OAllenmoi@aol.com

I wanted to add this email copy , this is my question and the reply I received , also I would also like to add , I have kept turtles for a bit over 45 years and do know quite a bit about them , I am not the first time turtle keeper with a box of questions to open and hope for an answer . He did ship it on tuesday like he said here and I did receive it by a bit after 12:30 noon on weds , he did not email me back as of this point in time and he did have the time to post another add on the classified section today the 23rd of may 2003 .

Not suprising:

http://faunaclassifieds.com/forums/s...ghlight=oliver

http://faunaclassifieds.com/forums/s...ghlight=oliver

http://faunaclassifieds.com/forums/s...ghlight=%2Amoi

http://faunaclassifieds.com/forums/s...ight=Northwest

I have added another picture and below the email I got today from the seller , he said he would respond to this forum , I hope so , I onlt got a response when I posted on one of his adds and kingsnake classified .



Thank you for your reponse , there is no email to me that states the turtle is wildcaught , and I truely do hope you look at the picture I posted on fauna broad of inquiry then tell me the turtle has no obvious problems , possibly you have me or the turtle confused with some other person or turtle , wild caught is not the issue here in any case , I wanted the info on how it was kept and if it was wildcaught and how long you had it so I could come to find a cure for the shell condition much faster and all I asked was honesty , why is it that it took an email on the classified section to one of your adds to receive a response , look again at your records and see if you are addressing the correct person with this email , as far as being a vet I don't expect any herp dealer is , but if you do in fact look at the animals sent then you have missed something in this case , as a dealer what you are telling me is you have no personal knowledge of what a healthy turtle in good shape looks like and you are just a dealer in the business to move reptiles for profit and nothing more , understand , not everyone that makes a purchase from you sells reptiles , they purchase them as a single turtle for their own pet and interest and are truley concerned about the health of the reptile , if you just sell mainly to other dealers and can't see this side of things then don't sell to the hobbyist , we then can go to pet shops and look at turtles first hand and pass on the sick ones or decide if we want to save one and we can stick with dealers who understand that a turtle is more than a product to be sold as a shoe .And post some pictures of the herps you sell , most others do , this was my mistake for not asking for one , not that they are proof positive that the turtle in the photo is the one I would get , if you look at fauna you will see my email to you , the second one but I can post all if needed to jog your memory ." A free country ", what does that have to do with anything , free to do whatever one wants ? What ever happened to the honest citizen with a conscience .

William Jahnkow
----- Original Message -----
From: NWherp11@aol.com
To: catninejw@earthlink.net
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: Message about: South american wood turtles,texas spiny softshell6 to 8 in...


Dear sir,
thanks for your email, am not a vet .we make sure that the turtle eats ,does not have any obvious problem before we ship them .As we stated to you,and we have copies of the email to prove it,the turtle is wild caught.The price of this turtle also reflected that.
As you know ,we also guarantee live arrival,and as you are telling me the turtle arrive alive,we can not be held responsible for illness like this or other hidden defect ,which are beyond our control,as I stated earlier ,we are not vets.Once again we are sorry about the turtles,.I am willing to give you a $20 discount on your next purchase,but we will not refund your money in this case.
As far as posting on fauna classified,please fell free to do so,this is your opinion and this is a free country,I will make sure that we post our version of the fact on all list and on fauna classified.If you would like to talk to me please call 253 921 7811
Best regards,
Olivier Allen MOi

This one is in really good shape,infortunatly I would not be able to ship on friday as you would not be delivered until monday

I wonder what they consider bad shape? That poor turtle is nowhere near "good" shape.

As you know ,we also guarantee live arrival,and as you are telling me the turtle arrive alive,we can not be held responsible for illness like this or other hidden defect ,which are beyond our control,as I stated earlier ,we are not vets.

Hidden defect? Its condition is pretty obvious and yet they told you it was in good shape? How misleading can someone be? Another sad lesson in how careful we have to be in buying turtles (or other reptiles) online.

As you probably know already, that condition is known as "shell rot". Topical diluted bethadine solution can be used for treatment. You will have to leave her out of the water as much as possible until the condition improves. I would suggest you treat her topically every other day (and leave her out of the water) and put her in a container with immaculate clean water just for drinking and eating purposes every other day also. What concerns me the most though is the "swimming with a tilt", which might suggest a respiratory infection.

Regards.

Here is the latest email I received today , this is for anyones info , I will in another post set in some email from very very honest dealers that deserve good input that I have dealt with , I always felt if a dealer kept in contact with the buyer then this was a good dealer , I was wrong , northwest did keep in contact , if anyone wants to see all the email I sent and received during this transaction I wil post it , I don't know how the webmaster of this forum feels about this or if it uses up web space needed , I am new on this forum so I don't want to set out of line . Below starts with my reply and below this is what I replyed to .





If you read the entire post I put the email you sent me and it clearly states in there in your own words about the $20.00 you offered me , I have not lied or left out anything that happened , you said nothing about who packed the turtle in any email to me , you only said you had one left , what possible good is the $20.00 credit going to do me , I can't say I have much faith in the fact that I would get something that was in good shape , I still feel I am the one that lost out here and you made the money i would not have the conscience to send a turtle out like this one unless it was known to the buyer that it had problems and they knew what to expect , I filed the claim with paypal because the turtle was not as described , this is the truth , if you feel you are right then why don't you get on fauna and defend yourself , I have all the email sent from you and you never responded to any emails once I complained , so hench the complaint to paypal , no response , look at you email see what was said between us , I was not trying to set you up , I was only purchasing a turtle , I got one alive and never said otherwise , you did say it was in very good shape , do you really feel it was ? If so then I am the idiot here , no one else thinks the turtle is in good shape but you , where do you think I'm wrong here , what is the problem with how I feel , what if you ordered a turtle and in came to you like this , think about how you would feel , this is not a turtle that is going to be sold in a petshop for profit it is for my own personal pet that I set up a new tank for and spent the money for all the other equipment needed to give it a good home before I got it . I can't answer for what others said about you on the forum , I don't know any of them and I was'nt involved with their dealings with you , I know what I stated is true and can prove all of it , so don't refund the money it's beyond that , I can see that is a lost cause , if I fail to get it from you from other means then at least I did what I felt I needed to do , inform others of what happened to me dealing with you . I know nothing about you or your business practice except what I experienced and maybe others will go elsewhere for their herps , even if I got the money back I can't take away what was said on fauna and a few other forums , it's a bit late for that now , you had a chance to contact me the day I got the turtle and you did nothing , I waited and still nothing , I would have waited longer but then you put another add on kingsnake so I knew you were around and by the computer , thats what really got me heated up , you just don't get it at all , maybe this entire thing will not hurt your business at all , maybe there are very few people that get one turtle from you I don't know , you may sell to other dealers or petshops I can't say , but we will soon find out .

William Jahnkow
----- Original Message -----
From: NWherp11@aol.com
To: catninejw@earthlink.net
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: Message about: South american wood turtles,texas spiny softshell6 to 8 in...


I just read your statement and seen the picture on Fauna classified,intteresting,As I think I told you before I have not pack this turtle personnaly ,one of my packer did.I will ask him (he also take care of the turtles) what he thinks on Tuesday and show him the pictures on Fauna.
You forgot to mention my offer of a store credit for $20 in your post.I also receive the email from Paypal from your complaint,I send an email to them explaining them the situation and the standard terms of business which we worked under.I will also call them on Tuesday to make sure they understand that.I also contacted the owner of the Fauna classifieds board .It seems that some of the statements who have been made on his board are innacurate to outright lies some made by competitor,lawsuits may be filed if some of those statements are not retracted (check around I already done this once before).My offer for a $20 credit still stand ,it is valid for 60days as of today.Sorry if you 'd feel we made a mistake .
Best regards,
Olivier Allen Moi

In a message dated 5/14/03 8:14:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, catninejw@earthlink.net writes:



I'm interested in the chicken turtles , I only need one in good shape , how do you ship and the cost to CA 91204 , please reply asap ,

William


I only have one left,total for the freight would be $30,we ship USPS next day delivery.We take paypal and money order.
best regards,
Olivier

Gees what makes him think you would ever want to buy anything from him again after that? Store credit? what a joke!
He should send you $20.00 back via paypal at the very least.
I feel sorry for the poor turtle. One good thing though. At least that turtle is in good hands now.
I'm sure you will take better care of it and bring it back to good health.
Sorry your having to deal with this problem. I hope the people here are able to give you some help with at least getting a decent refund.
$20.00 store credit? geesssss

lawsuits may be filed if some of those statements are not retracted (check around I already done this once before)

Wow! Three lawsuits mentioned on this board all in the same week! A new record for the BOI!