Hundreds of snakes to be released in Florida...

Interesting......

http://www.cfnews13.com/article/news/2010/august/143081/Hundred-of-snakes-to-be-released-in-Florida

Finally a news story with a positive bend to it........

That is awesome! Thanks for the link!

So they can release animals back to their native habitant, but we can't? ummm I see how it works.

Anyway, glad to see some progress in the understanding in the need for snakes in the ecosystem.

The comments below are fairly accepting of it. At least some people understand that even if they don't like them, they can still respect them, and they serve a purpose.

deborahbroadus said:

So they can release animals back to their native habitant, but we can't? ummm I see how it works.

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Not sure if that was sarcasm or what, but if it's an honest question I can elaborate(roughly) on why it's a big no-no for the average hobbyist to just release natives back into the wild... There's all sorts of horrible things that could go wrong if the average hobbyist just decided to create their own program and started releasing native animals back into the wild. Good intentions, perhaps... but they pose a HUUUUGE risk. If an animal were exposed to exotic/unfamiliar diseases and the like that non-native species can potentially carry, they could carry that with them/ or their offspring could carry that back with them and possibly expose/infect the natural population before anyone knew what was going on. The natives would have no natural immunity to this unknown ick and bam, they're either wiped out or the population is damaged beyond repair.

These guys get to do it, because they're focused on making sure that they DON'T introduce some unknown ick to the native populations. They've got government money at their disposal, which helps with the research and study. The average hobbyist does not.
Sorry if this doesn't sound all scientific and whatnot, I'm just summarizing it how it was explained to me.


Is this article anyway related to this one? http://projectorianne.org/recentnews.html
It's the second article down.

I'm super excited about it. I, for one, would LOOOOVE to be able to see these guys thriving in their natural habitat (Ranging farther/wider than the small pockets they're found in now.) T-T I want to photograph some of these guys one day.

Very awsome and exciting! This is a very good step in the right direction and I could not be happier! Eastern Indigos are by far one of my favs, on my top 5 list and they are amazing animals to say the least.

200 Indigos on 25 Acres? That's a disaster waiting to happen........

The breeding facility is on 25 acres, they plan on releasing them across the state.

Not just across Florida either, looks like they're wanting reintroduce them into Georgia and Alabama too? (Basically that general southeastern area down there).. If you check out the one article I link, it mention some 2,300 acre preserve and a breeding facility somewhere. Project Orianne. Idk if either of these are related to each other, or just two completely different projects with similar goals in mind.

Pachikat said:

Not sure if that was sarcasm or what, but if it's an honest question I can elaborate(roughly) on why it's a big no-no for the average hobbyist to just release natives back into the wild... There's all sorts of horrible things that could go wrong if the average hobbyist just decided to create their own program and started releasing native animals back into the wild. Good intentions, perhaps... but they pose a HUUUUGE risk. If an animal were exposed to exotic/unfamiliar diseases and the like that non-native species can potentially carry, they could carry that with them/ or their offspring could carry that back with them and possibly expose/infect the natural population before anyone knew what was going on. The natives would have no natural immunity to this unknown ick and bam, they're either wiped out or the population is damaged beyond repair.

These guys get to do it, because they're focused on making sure that they DON'T introduce some unknown ick to the native populations. They've got government money at their disposal, which helps with the research and study. The average hobbyist does not.
Sorry if this doesn't sound all scientific and whatnot, I'm just summarizing it how it was explained to me.


Is this article anyway related to this one? http://projectorianne.org/recentnews.html
It's the second article down.

I'm super excited about it. I, for one, would LOOOOVE to be able to see these guys thriving in their natural habitat (Ranging farther/wider than the small pockets they're found in now.) T-T I want to photograph some of these guys one day.

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Yeah, those government guys never screw up. That's why the well trained, qualified professionals at Zoo Atlanta were frantically searching for a Tigris that escaped last week. (I haven't turned any snakes loose in the last week, last few years actually and I'm 100% positive that I have more snakes than the Atlanta Zoo)
Any of you from the Midwest or Western USA will know what Chronic Wasting Disease "CWD" is and how many thousands/millions of animals it has killed. The strain infecting the western USA was turned loose by some of the qualified and knowledgable staff of the Colorado fish and game, birds and bugs, bumbling beauracrats, whatever they call themselves this week. Rather than do an immediate containment of it and fess up to the fact that CDWP and CU turned loose CWD they let the sick animals run wild and free passing a deadly disease. Years later the solution was to have mass killings of wild animals. "If we kill them ALL there won't be any diseased ones left" That's the government mentality in action. CWD is still a growing problem and headed east.
I wonder if the indigos being released will have been tested for every possible disease? Not a chance. Once an animal is removed from the wild gene pool to captivity it is dead to the wild gene pool. It's life and circumstances have been altered which in turn alters it's process of natural selection. A sick captive turned loose may have never been sick in the wild so you have changed it's course. Vice versa a perfectly healthy captive raised animal may have a flaw that would have caused it to catch a disease or be preyed upon in the wild. Turning either one loose changes the natural flow of things and could in the long run have catastrophic effects on the remaining wild populations. I know that is a harsh view but that's how it is. Taking genetically generic snakes and turing them loose all over the south is insane. Why not turn something else loose, maybe some cane toads or kudzu?

I could go on and on with similar love stories about various zoos, DNRs, and schools but I don't have 30 people on my staff or a 2 million dollar budget for this campaign so I'll just go clean some cages. The moral of the story is that having a bigger check book and a an elitist attitude doesn't always make you right.

The Indigos are gone for a reason, and last time I looked, that situation hasn't gotten any better........

The pockets of Indigos left are there because they have no or very little human pressure. So they're going to over crowd the already viable populations, and release animals that really aren't going to have a chance to begin with? Is that the logic anymore?

Nothing like releasing non-locality, generic animals into locality specific populations.........

SrpntHntr said:

Yeah, those government guys never screw up.

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Just to agree, I have recently spent a year working for a state government project. I have NEVER seen so much waste, lack of planning, fraud, lack of communication in one place.
I do have to say that there were some who were genuinely committed to doing good, hardworking, and helpful. But when the entire design is crappy, a good small engine isn't going to make enough of a difference.

SrpntHntr said:

Yeah, those government guys never screw up.

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I never said they were perfect, but they're far better equipped for this than the average hobbyist. I never said that "having a bigger check book and a an elitist attitude doesn't always make you right." nor did I hint at it, all I said was that they were more qualified for the job. I'm not ignorant to past mistakes on their part, but I'd hope that they've at least learned from them.

There have been plenty of species that have been near extinction due to humans and captive breeding programs have brought them back. Isn't one of those species the American Alligator? How many of them do you see out in the wild now?
The government is just funding it through grants. There is a non profit organization that will be overseeing the project because they so loved the beautiful indigos. If you seen one yourself, I am sure you would fall in love too.
I never seen one in the wild (which might change due to the program), but I seen a big wonderful indigo named Indy at Rainbow Springs State Park.

psychoprimate84 said:

There have been plenty of species that have been near extinction due to humans and captive breeding programs have brought them back. Isn't one of those species the American Alligator? How many of them do you see out in the wild now?
The government is just funding it through grants. There is a non profit organization that will be overseeing the project because they so loved the beautiful indigos. If you seen one yourself, I am sure you would fall in love too.
I never seen one in the wild (which might change due to the program), but I seen a big wonderful indigo named Indy at Rainbow Springs State Park.

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The whole point is the fact that they have very little suitable habitat to go back to, and Indigos are very habitat specific.......

What I see happening is either A) The animals being released in un-suitable habitat, which will result in failure.......Or B) The animals being released in suitable habitat, only to be over populated, which will result in failure.........

A big Indigo needs 5-10 Acres, if not more to be successful.......That's one animal........There is a reason why most introduction programs fail miserably........Once that habitat is altered, it can never go back to the way it was......That's whats needed to save these animals, and everything else associated with them.........Thats not going to happen.......

It's a fact, you can remove ALL of the animals from an area but leave the habitat basically intact and over time they will return, sometimes with more vigor than before due to the fact that stronger genetics colonize an area. If you destroy the habitat you have forever erased the natural population of animals. I have been involved with some habitat restoration projects at strip mines and it is a complete joke. Reseeding with nonindigenous plants draws nonindigenous insects which draws nonindigenous predators which results in a zoo filled with animals that may be fun to look at but don't really belong there. It's a nice gesture and better than looking at scorched earth but you can't remake millions of years worth of natural selection and evolution in a weekend. If they have some decent reclaimed habitat for the indigos it would be nice to see them in the wild. I suspect they will be feeding on baby burms and retics ;-) Moral of the story, you can collect all the animals you want if you don't destroy the habitat but your yard at your house or the parking lot at your local grocery did more damage than a lifetime of collecting can do.

psychoprimate84 said:

Isn't one of those species the American Alligator? How many of them do you see out in the wild now?

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I think u mean American Crocadile(sp?) I see gators constantly. Kinda of a rule of thumb in Florida, if its a body of fresh water, theres a gator in it.

I love indigos, I had one living in my back yard, and she was so gorgeous. She lived there for about ten years, and then either moved on or died. I assume it was a she because she was about 6-7ft long and had a nest but I never found eggs. I wish I could own one.

rcpreis3 said:

I think u mean American Crocadile(sp?) I see gators constantly. Kinda of a rule of thumb in Florida, if its a body of fresh water, theres a gator in it.

I love indigos, I had one living in my back yard, and she was so gorgeous. She lived there for about ten years, and then either moved on or died. I assume it was a she because she was about 6-7ft long and had a nest but I never found eggs. I wish I could own one.

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No, the American Alligator. In 1967, the American Alligator was put on the endangered species list and finally removed in 1987. As you said, because of many specie recovery acts, they can now be seen in every fresh body of water in FL.

oh... well... they were removed the year I was born so thats why I havent heard anything about them being threatened, lol.