Info 340 dude, Jabari Walters..be careful.

Not to long ago ( a week or two?) Jabari bought a Leatherback from me (bearded dragon) and from the start he has been trying to re-sell it you may have seen the ad

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252333

Not that I had a problem with him trying to re-sell the dragon, he wouldn't be the first to try and re-sell a animal purchased from me. BUT to start, he had a friend try and sell it. After he had no luck, he tried to sell this dragon. Both used my pics to do so...

Jabari housed this 6 inch baby beardie in a 65 Gal. screen net cage. (the cage was entirely made out of netting) Those who dont know. Netting cages is NOT a sufficient habitat for a baby beardie. And a 65 gal cage, for a 6 inch dragon is WAY to large.

The Actual problem kicked in before I knew there was a problem. On friday June 18th this dragon had stopped eating. ( I will post the e-mail below)

On june 20th Jabari had changed this ad to Trade. He was no longer trying to sell it for 150 plus shipping, but wants to trade this dragon for a adult dragon. But from friday until monday,(time of ad change.. for sale for 150 to trade for adult beardie) he had a dragon that was not eating or thriving right.

Yesterday on june 21st I get a e-mail (the one im going to post) Stating the dragon isnt eating its doing bad. It stopped eating on friday june 18th. (all the while, he is trying to sell it).

Well today it died.... So if you see this ad, OVER LOOK IT! this dragon is dead. Do NOT let him tell you differently!



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jabari Walters <[email protected]>
> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 20:16:59
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Red orange Leatherback poss double het (hypo
> trans)
>
> Hey tom I have an issue with the dragon I bought now when I
> got him ive been feeding him baby crickets and mixed greens
> of turnip greens and yellow squash and he was eating fine
> for the first couple days then on last week friday he just
> stopped and idk what is going on with him right now the last
> time i saw him eat he had 2 pieces of some turnip greens and
> now he just isnt eating anything no greens or live crickets
> nothing and he is starting to lose weight and get skinny I
> can send you pics if you need proof of what is going on but
> I wanted to know your opinion on this situation because I
> would be sad if he died on me please let me know what you
> think is going on and im not trying to screw you over or
> give you a bad rep or anything cuz I love your dragons you
> produce but this guy isnt making any progress everyday he is
> getting worse to me but he still has some decent weight on
> him but idk man please email me whenever you get this ASAP.
>
> Thank You
>
> J

I will more and likely replace this dragon for him, and walk away.

I just wanted others to be aware of what he was doing. If the dragon wasnt thriving right he shouldn't have the dragon up for sale, then try and trade it when it was on its last limb.

The question on my mind is, what IF he sold this animal for 150 and it died on his buyer. What then would the outcome be?

How sad. If I were you I would not replace the dragon. BTW is that the only email/pm you have from the buyer?

KelliH said:

How sad. If I were you I would not replace the dragon. BTW is that the only email/pm you have from the buyer?

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He sent me a you tube video of the poor little guy. He was sunk in, in the stomach area.

Then said He knows im not a bad guy and i dont screw people over. blah blah blah I will post it. Im kinda upset about it.

I have the e-mail of the you tube video in my e-mail dont know how to post it. He does use a couple profanity's not towards me, just in general. So it may not be aloud to be made public??? (b.o.i. public) dont want any infractions. .

In times like these it makes sending out another dragon tough, AND he did void his guarantee not once but twice... If he wants to make changes in the dragons environment. Cage size and type. I will send him out one more.

It sucks when you put out money and dont have nothing to show for it.

Even though he was flipping it, now he has nothing and out 120 some dollars. I kinda feel bad.

Jabari's last e-mail to this point

Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 10:57:25 -0700
From: [email protected]
Subject: lets work something out ASAP
To: [email protected]

Yea he died this morning bro I have proof if you need it I made another video of him for you the cage is a 65 gallon reptarium just a net cage I have had 2 other dragons in there before with no problems and i know you are a good guy and dont screw people over which is why I bought my dragon from you I know you cant leave the crickets in the cage with him or they will start eating his tail etc in the video i explained the temps on the floor are 82 degrees and on top are 100-105 max the distance by measurement is a foot. let me know if you need any visual proof of him i have him wrapped in a napkin dead now just in case you wanted visual proof



The worse thing to do is leave extra food (insect) running around the dragons environment. they eat the dragons poo, and then the dragon eats the cricket. Not a healthy cycle! Also the crickets will eat on the dragon. To many insects in a cage can stress a dragon out. In the wild there food isnt running all around or even all over the dragon.

Get back to me, we will go from there.

Buy him a plastic animal, then he won't be out anything and another animal won't be put at risk. (just trying to help. lol)

I know VERY little about dragons, but imo there is no need to replace the dragon.

David Scarboro said:

I know VERY little about dragons, but imo there is no need to replace the dragon.

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Honestly, I know what he was doing isnt right. But thats not my call to make. Im not going to play judge and jury on a deal i wasnt in on. My guarantee says live arrival and four weeks. I will stick to my guarantee. An I feel if i better informed him on his husbandry, the dragon may still be alive? So.........

Dont get me wrong there are stipulations.

Shipping fee is his responsibility.

He will need a proper setup.

This dragon does not come with a guarantee.

This will be his last purchase from me.

i know where you and Kelly are coming from. But I breed them, I dont pay per dragon. I know I have A dragon here I can send.

dragonluver83 said:

Honestly, I know what he was doing isnt right. But thats not my call to make. Im not going to play judge and jury on a deal i wasnt in on. My guarantee says live arrival and four weeks. I will stick to my guarantee. An I feel if i better informed him on his husbandry, the dragon may still be alive? So.........

Dont get me wrong there are stipulations.

Shipping fee is his responsibility.

He will need a proper setup.

This dragon does not come with a guarantee.

This will be his last purchase from me.

i know where you and Kelly are coming from. But I breed them, I dont pay per dragon. I know I have A dragon here I can send.

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You ARE a good guy and nobody cares what Ed Clark says... Now come on with the Negative Karma Ed!

There's NO EXCUSE for not properly caring for any herp that is as common as a Beardie!

If he was improperly caring for it, even after you told him how to fix the issue with the set up. Then the replacement policy should be null and void. if someone is drunk and tries to hold it and kills it.. would you still replace it? Negligence should not be rewarded (assuming you told him how to fix the caging issues etc).

So, based on what I have read here.. I agree that it should not be replaced.


OH.. and if he were to sell it.. Your guarantee was for HIM.. not for any other hands it exchanged with.. your deal was with HIM.. therefor.. HE would be the one fully out and needing to refund HIS customer at that point.

UGH!!

In case it was not done already I just sent him a PM with the link to this thread. I would love to hear what he has to say about everything.

What?!!!

Hey everyone im sad to see this up I didnt think this entire situation was going to be such a big deal I was just seeking advice from you tom and I did change the for sale thing because I thought of it after a while and I said that wouldnt be fair to you to see a dragon you just sold me to sell for more and I would never try to sell a dragon that was in bad condition a lot of people emailed me but I told them no he is in no condition and I feel bad giving a animal to a person when theyre not eating thats just not how buisness is done im sorry to anyone who is upset by this but Tom im sad to see that your taking it this far I didnt mean to break your guarantee stuff or w.e. but I dont feel that you should have put me on blast over this situation bro I was really looking forward to doing buisness with you in the future but I guess you dont wanna do any buisness with me and im just going to leave it at that im sorry I wasted your time but I do not feel that this was the best way to handle this situation.

340dude, You are not owed anything IMO and I wish he wouldn't send you a replacement but that's his decision not mine. I would sell you a plant.

I meant to say would NOT sell you a plant!

Man, this is a hard call!

You sell a dragon to this guy a couple weeks ago. The dragon does okay until 6-17, when it stops eating. Buyer (or friend) put it up for sale on 6-19. Buyer informs you on 6-21 that the baby isn't eating since the 17th), then on the 22nd that the baby died.

1) You shouldn't feel bad for the buyer - only the baby, IMO. A 65-gal Reptarium is totally NOT suitable for a dragon, baby or not. I suspect he had another lizard in the Rep. and it died - then he bought from you.

2) Buyer tried to flip this 5-week old baby even before it was established/thriving in his care - even after it stopped eating. 5 weeks is too young to sell twice in 3 weeks, IMO.

3) Buyer put up his ad after the dragon stopped eating (according to his email), but didn't bother to inform you of a problem until 2 days after the ad and 4 days after he claimed it stopped eating.

4) You have a guarantee. I totally commend and applaud you for standing true to your guarantee even it the buyer does not deserve it; that is what will separate you from other breeders/vendors who use every excuse in the book NOT to uphold their guarantees.

5) Absolutely and positively STICK to your stipulations. Get photo proof of a suitable tank and accessories before you ship a replacement. If the buyer does not agree to the stipulations and does not comply within a certain time frame, then all bets (guarantees) are off.

6) Tom was right in posting this warning, IMO. It is true that once an animal is sold, the buyer can do what he or she wants. However, if they can't provide at least a proper habitat, and want to flip an "infant" that isn't even feeding, then a warning is appropriate.

7) To anyone else inclined to do so - please leave other names out of this, Tom's thread. There was absolutely no need for Tom's name to be brought up in that OTHER thread (shame on you other guy from that other thread for bringing Tom's name into it), so let's be adults, above that immature crap and leave that other name out of this one. Thank you very much

Stupid

I feel that you all dont need to watch out i just emailed tom if you want proof i told him keep his dragon im not trying to fuck anyone over but i already know how people are on this boi nonsense that you feel im such a bad person but o well im not going to respond to this anymore im sorry TOM love your dragons and stuff but this was uncalled for I wouldnt have put you on blast especially since the dragon is dead like what am i going do sell a dead dragon to someone come on thats just fucked up bro but its w.e.

Someone has not read the rules of the BOI.

I feel that you all dont need to watch out

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I feel that readers can decide for themselves.

See ya ....

340dude said:

I feel that you all dont need to watch out i just emailed tom if you want proof i told him keep his dragon im not trying to fuck anyone over but i already know how people are on this boi nonsense that you feel im such a bad person but o well im not going to respond to this anymore im sorry TOM love your dragons and stuff but this was uncalled for I wouldnt have put you on blast especially since the dragon is dead like what am i going do sell a dead dragon to someone come on thats just fucked up bro but its w.e.

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It's nice to know that your taking the responsibility for not providing the dragon with a proper home which caused it to die. It's also nice that you not taking another dragon because you realize you would be taking advantage of a great guarantee that is there for honest buyers.

340dude said:

I feel that you all dont need to watch out i just emailed tom if you want proof i told him keep his dragon im not trying to anyone over but i already know how people are on this boi nonsense that you feel im such a bad person but o well im not going to respond to this anymore im sorry TOM love your dragons and stuff but this was uncalled for I wouldnt have put you on blast especially since the dragon is dead like what am i going do sell a dead dragon to someone come on thats just up bro but its w.e.

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Smooth....

here is the proof im not trying to screw anyone over

Sorry Man
Wednesday, June 22, 2011 8:38 PM
From:
"Jabari Walters" <[email protected]>
Add sender to Contacts
To:
"Tom Clarke" <[email protected]>
Its cool man you can just save your dragons and sell them to someone else bro I didnt mean for things to go down the way they did but it looks like you dont want anything to do with me buisness wise I loved the dragon you sold me and was upset at myself at how late it took me to get in contact with you but I cant do anything now about it bro im sorry I wish you and the baltimore beardies the best of luck in the future and im sure your amazing dragons will continue making your customers happy I wish things didnt have to end this way but I will still give you a good rating even though you put me on blast bro but I guess thats just the way it is.

Peace

J