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Old 05-16-2012, 12:02 AM   #1

This whole situation began with my extreme interest in an ARU green tree python that Randy Mcdowell had up for sale on TheSnake Shop's facebook website. I proceeded to message him and try to work a deal (Randy always encourages buyers to make offers as well as a 30 day layaway plan) on the ARU. I presented him with the offer of 350.00 shipped. These are our exact conversations via facebook messaging...
Jrod Manley:
Randy I get paid the 12th, if you can do 350 shipped on the gtp,and work with me till the 12th ill take him, see what you can do dont break your back.

TheSnake Shop:
Jrod what's your zip code let me figue the shipping and see if I can still make something I paid $265.00 for him........I'd love for you to get him..!! He's a great eater, and calm as can be...we can take him right out of his enclosure without using gloves or a hook..!!

TheSnake Shop:
Jrod....could you do $370..? That way I would make $55...cover luch here for a day (I feed all of my employees everyday)...? But I would need a down payment.of $50 Then we can work out getting him paid and to you...

Upon making the 50$ down payment, 25$ of which I had in my paypal account and the other half in my bank account. I then messaged Randy requesting paypal information to send him the payments and he replied that their paypal was down, and a 25$ down payment from my bank account would be suffice on April 9th to hold the gtp for me untill my next payday..
TheSnake Shop:
Just call Tyler, I'll let him know I Ok'd the down payment of $25...that would bring the balance to $345.00....and just let him know when you'll be able to make another payment, or pay the Green Tree off...also..set the shipping....Thanks Jrod...!!

So my payday rolls around on April 12th and I contact Randy to check and see if his paypal was up and working yet so that I could make the final payment on the ARU gtp. While inquiring about the paypal account information for the payment, Randy asked about our good friend Chad whereabouts because he hadnt been on facebook in a few days. I then replied...
Jrod Manley:
I hate to say anything but, hes going through a very rough time with money, and his phone has been shut off, if I wasnt buying the aru today I would have bought his atb's or just sent him money to help, but I owe the snake shop and I intend to pay today.

TheSnake Shop:
Just between you and me....I want to try and help them. I might be able to send him some money....What's the best way to that...?

TheSnake Shop:
Thanks Jrod....I don't want to be paid back, just want to help. How about this.....I knock $100 off what you're paying today on your GTP, and you send that $100 to Chad...? Don't tell him it's from me.....tell him I made an error on what you owed, and you're sending the difference to him...would that be alright....?

Jrod Manley:
Ok I feel horrible for basically taking the credit for the help randy.

TheSnake Shop:
Don't worry about're doing the right thing. If we have a good day in sales, I'll send them some more. Talk to you soon, young man.......

TheSnake Shop:
Jord.....Ok, here's what I want you to do.....I'm going to send your GTP to you, providing you send the money owed on the GTP to Chad and Kara.....don't ask questions, just send them the money today....We're going to box up your snake and send him to you.....can you do that for Chad...?

Jrod Manley:
ok understand what your saying here and will carry out the task ill be sending him a total of 345. now

TheSnake Shop:
Send the rest to Chad.....I'll make sure your GTP is sent to you'll get him by 10:30 AM tomorrow morning.....send anything still owed on the GTP to Chad.....thanks Jrod....!! Let Chad know that God is watching over him, and oh, He's watching over you also, my friend.....

The next morning I received the ARU, upon unpacking him from the bag, the first thing I noticed was that the ARU was infested with both black and red mites. I brought this to Randy's attention immediately, he responded being very angry and upset about the situation and towards his employees for letting a snake leave the shop infested with mites. At this point he had not mentioned what he could do to fix the issue, just that he was handling his employees in an appropriate manner so that this was to never happen to any other customer again....
So, obviously the first thing I did was treat the snake for mites. I gave the snake four days to rest and settle into his new environment. My first attempt to feed him was on the 5th day, with no success. Then I tried again every other day and night with no success again. On April 27th was my last attempt to feed him before desiding to investigate an underlying problem that may have rendered his ability to eat. I then opened the ARU's mouth and the reason for his lack of appitite was clearly obvious. He had a severe mouth infection to the upper and lower gums and teeth that were falling out due to the severity of the "rott" along the gum lines. There was no way that the snake could have developed such a severe infection in just the short time that I had received him. He also sounded to be rapidly developing a severe Respiratory Infection.

Being considerably upset I messaged Randy on his personal page right away!!!!

Jrod Manley:
hey randy... i hate to bother you... but i was attempting to feed the aru I got from you guys who hasnt eaten yet... and again he refused... i then opened his mouth to see if there was a bigger problem.. and sure enough he has mouth rott bad... super thick saliva.. cheese chunks of infection around his teeth top and bottom I took pics.. I'm working at getting it treated now..

Randy McDowell:
THere's no such thing as "mouth rot" it's a term that used by those who do not know what's happening inside the reptiles mouth. An infection of some kind has set in......he ate fine at the shop...first you want to check his teeth, to make sure he hasn't damaged, broke, or dislodged any of them.. GTP's have large canine teeth.....which can be easily damaged or broken, which can go unseen until an infection has set in....flush his mouth out with oral antiseptic.... Which you can get fom your local Vet.....locate where the infection is...and check to make sure there is no damaged tooth or teeth...if there is, gently remove them....flush twice a day until the swelling and redness have gone away....wait another few days befor attempting to feed him. If you've never done these before, it'squite simple...when you're working with him, hold his head with your hand around his neck, and only his head showing between your index finger and thumb....have someone hold his neck, with their hand slid up the snakes neck until touching your hand holding him... This prevents the snake from pulling back and hurting his neck......Keep me posted, young man.....I just had to do this for an Emerald Tree who, while climbing just touched his head (mouth)against the side of his enclosure, which broke two teeth....we didn't notice it until we saw the swelling...I removed the teeth, and after a week of flushing his mouth, he ate....Keep me posted, young man...!!

I was so furious that he basically called me an idiot and just told me to care for the snake in a manner that I had ALREADY done right away. It a ODD that he knew exactly how to care for this specific problem without seeing pictures. At the shop this snake was supposed to be healthy and eatting.. I'm just curious as to why HE wasnt concerned or suprised as he was about the mites... we all know the serverity of an infection of any kind in a snake.. To be honest I didnt even know how to reply to his insulting message, so the next day he re-messaged me on the 28th asking about the status of the snake. I replied that I had cleaned most of the infection out of his mouth and flushed it with an oral antiseptic untill I could get him in to see the vet.

Randy replied back with.. Which might I add was his first mention of any sort of replacement for the ARU issues that I was completely UNAWARE of when I was interested in originally purchasing the snake.

TheSnake Shop:
I have some more GTP's coming in next week...and since you've gone through some problems...and me see if can swing a real pretty one your treat.....! They didn't send you any shirts, did they...? I ask because Chad never got his scorpions, and sometimes, I have to yell and stomp around to get things done the way I think they should be done.......They WILL be in the next box.....sorry.....

After going to the vet, the snake was given a dose of 0.15 baytrill orally which was recommended by the vet, and also a bottle of vitamins that dissolved in their water. After administering the care that the vet instructed to provide for the snake, and then letting him rest for a short time, he died. Aparently it was to late for the antibiotics to take effect. I then told Randy of his passing right away of his passing. When I recieved a message back from TheSnake shops page, one of the co-owners named Sue responded.

TheSnake Shop:
Hey Jrod, it's Sue. Sorry to hear about your Aru, do we have anything else at the moment you would like or would you rather wait for another one to come in?

Jrod Manley:
good morning sue.. yeah a very sucky loss.. i will wait for another gtp.. i really wish we werent even having this convo to be honest...

TheSnake Shop:
I understand and again we are all very sorry

A week or so had passed with gtp's arriving at the store, but everytime I would inquire about one as a replacment, he would find a reason for it not to be a suitable time. Meanwhile he made it seem as if this situation would be put to rest as soon as the gtp's arrived to the shop. While all this was going on, about a week after recieveing the ARU originally, I had purchased a baby biak gtp from them as well for 400$. When the biak arrived I unpacked it noticing scabs and scars randomly along the length of it body; as well as water blisters beneath its shed. These signs indicated that she had been either wild caught or had poor care from the previous owner. Other than these issues, the snake seemed healthy, no mites... no infection... It ate on May 3rd and deficated on May 8th. On May 12th while doing my routine checks on everyone.. I noticed that the biak was in shed and I began to apply "shed-ease" to help her through her shed. While I was applying it, it was apparent that she wasnt acting appropriately, she had a left to right head wobble and started to become very sluggish. I stopped right away to examine her and she slowly went limp in my hands to her death. Keep in mind, all the temps and humidity were correct and I have experience in the husbandry of gtp's.

So completely furious, but still continuing to hold a professional manner, I messaged Randy immediately.

Jrod Manley:
My god Randy... I dont even know how to say this but the baby biak just died in my hands... Shes ate on the third and deficated on the 8th.. Iv raised and still have gtp's today.. so lack of experience is out of the question.. when she came to me she had water blisters in her shed.. Most of those went away... She also had scars and scabs in random places.. And a long one from her vent to the tip of her tail... Was she wild caught....? I have spent quite a bit of money in the last month for unhealthy snakes.. Who is looking these Snakes over before they are shipped..? My snake room is heated to 80 the cage temps are set to 86.. When I came down this morning she kinda threw her hed side to side.. I picked her up and noticed she was shedding.. And began wipen her down with shed ease And she wasnt acting right, she became very sluggish very fast before I could wipe her down she died in my hand. Im so fluster i could wig out... Please help...

Jrod Manley:
Please know that im not attacking you... Im just super upset... Two gtps down the drain.... Come on... 900 And the least expensive snake is the healthiest.. (The male striped coastal). Is shipping taking a toll on these gtps or what..? I'm dying to know cause I have three gtps in the same room.. Never once had a problem...

Jrod Manley:
Im not even sure how I want you to fix this.. Maybe one gtp for the male that died on me and you didnt receive money for because it went to Chad... And maybe my money back on this female biak that just past..Im now scared of what I will receive... Will it be healthy? Im sure its a bit of both.. Ppl selling you what they dont want to deal with.. Say the pain in the ass out of their group.. Along with the stress of shipping them? Again im not attacking you.. Just letting you know my fruatration... I know your quite busy.. And have alot going on but please address this as soon as you can...

Randy McDowell:
I want to think about all you've written to me today..........See, the first Aru..I hand picked..had that snake for three months.....I paid $300 to get that Aru.....I had you send the money to Chad.....and I paid shipping...I fed him the last meal he received the week before he was shipped to you......and you're using "shed ease" by Zoo Med.....they don't have that in the wild...and not every animal can or will handle something that is not natural to their enviorment.....but stress does play a huge roll with GTP's......she also ate before she was shipped......The cheapest snake, the Striped Coastal, come from a dryer enviorment....I paid $125 for him, from same person who I got the GTP's from, the Irian Jaya Carpet from, and the the crosses.......the only two that have passed are the Aru, and the biak.....When the biak left here, I looked her over....and I look them over really good...I saw no plisters, and any scar on her underside......I know the Aru's teeth were intact before he was shipped.... Stress can play a large roll with GTP's......
I want to take a little time and let what you've written to me sink in.........The guy I got these animals from breeds many of these species....neither were raised to an adult, and the biak to a yearling.......both ate for me......I only had the biak for about two weeks before shipping....the Aru three months..........I'll get back to you........I know these things a re upsetting....I've been down roads like this before.....but give me a little time..........

Jrod Manley:
I'm surely not one to be smart.. but you hand picked an ARU with mites and a mouth infection that clearly had set in longer time then I had him sent to me.. also the shed ease has never killed nor harmed any snake gtp or carpet python I'v ever had... the baby biak came to me with little scars and small water blisters right out of the box i took pics and showed chad.. she seemed health otherwise just a little beat up.. like i said she ate one pinkie rat.. and defacated once. other words you call me a liar.. and insult my intelligence.. im surely no certified gtp vet .. but I know poor health signs when i see them.. i may not know all the proper terms.. but know and have raised gtps.. as i said i have a trio they have done just fine from baby to adults.. i will not be talked down to nor will I continue to be insulted.. i am patient with you.. i do not rip you apart... i didnt flip out when i opened a box of mites in my house.. i just want to be treated right here.. take care of me and ill go on my way.. i have been faithful to the shop in the time ive know you guys.. i expect the same in return...

Randy McDowell:
Jarrid....I'm not insulting you....sorry you took it that way...But I only received $40 for the Aru..I even paid for the shipping. You are intent on makng this my fault. I know you deeply care about these animals.....and I do, as well, I've been saving wildlife for more than 40 years....reptiles are what I specialize in......See, everything you've written says I've done all of this to you, and you've done nothing wrong....I'm not saying you've done anything wrong, I'm saying I'm not sure what happened....I know the condition of the animals before they left. I'm not making anything up. If you'd rather not be friends any longer, I understand, and we'll work something out.
I'm on my way to shop...I will contact you later. I've got a call into the Vet, he checks all of our animals every week, and I want to get his thoughts......he saw both of the GTP's.......and I want to see what he believes may have happened. Talk to you soon.......have a geat morning, young man......

Jrod Manley:
Im a reasonable adult... I would like to know where this will lead us..? Will i be taken Care of or out all the hard earned money spent with you...?
Do the pics i have taken of the animals conditions count for anything..? You havent asked to see the pics.. I only see you putting me off till later dates... Instead of being taken Care of.. you first promissed me a gtp And two shirts.. the gtps came in.. I selected one only to find out your deal didnt work out... Then you tell me give me to give you time to move a few things And i did.. Then you tell me more gtps are coming.. And i was going to be blown away.. Then those two came in.. And now you tell me they are on consignment... I dont know what to think anymore...

TheSnake Shop:
Jarrid.....pretty mean message you just wrote to me. And now I am a little pissed. I've already spent a lot of money...more than you. Remember, you sent money to Chad, and got a free snake, less $40.00..I even paid for shipping. Sorry that you didn't receive any free gifts for us...i.e. t-shirts...they didn't pack them....See, I'm willing to bet that both the Vet and the Breeder will not blame me, as you have. The way you're handling this, friendship is not likely. Can you tell you've pushed a button in me, that I don't like to see come out. Out of all the snakes we've sent to people..three have in shipping...and two to you.....and we've sent a ton out...!! The last GTP, from the same breeder, is doing great....yours died after a week with you. But, as you've stated know what you're doing. I will get back with you on Monday. No need to message me either here or on my personal page.
You said some pretty rotten things today...and I've let many go by..but not now.

(I NEVER got a free snake, I still paid 40$ to Randy.. and 345$ to Chad as Randy's REQUEST.. Still is doesnt make the snake free to me.. i paid the money)

Randy McDowell:
You know...I still have hopes this will work out...but I don't handle demands very well........I've blocked you from the shop's page...if you wish to say any other bad things about me...say them here...I will get back to on them........

TheSnake Shop:
By the way...I've looked at the pictures we took of the Aru and the Biak....they look swelling in the mouth..and he ate for me days before he was problem...I looked closely at the pictures of the Biak, while she was problems....the only time problems came is when they were with you...........!!!!!!!!!

Jrod Manley:
where cant you see that im trying here randy... im so upset.. and i have gone through everything i could to find out if it was on my part... and havent come up with anything consulting with my vet.. i havent called you names.. i still just dont understand why it has been drug to this far.. if you feel its my care refund my money.. if you have faith in me send me a healthy replacement take pics record its health do what ya gotta do..but dont just shit on me like this.. what have i done other than sincerly ask for your help.. my temper has been aroused just as much if not more yours cause you can just block me and forget about it while i have to stew over the fact that i have two dead snakes at no cost to my husbandry..

Ok here the big kicker, after blocking me from the snake shops page,
I was messaged by a co owner Josh Bigham: wondering what had happened. I exsplained and this was his reply to my astonishment..

Josh Bigham:
Wow he should send a replacement for one atleast that's 950 dollars u spent with the two gtps,malestriped coastal,and the female coastal on hold now. that's ridiculous if he doesn't do anything! I agree if your not treated right i wouldn't spend any money either idk y he gets like that ill talk to him when i go back to work ill see if i can help you out this and i believe the first gtp was going to die when the vet looked at it it had a.infection in the mouth i thought u were aware plus some missing teeth and was very lifeless and not defensive at all the second one i don't remember having any problems with.

so there it is in plain sight this good guys knowledge of the aru's health issues
To boot boot i had 50 dollars on a snake to hold and asked for a refund as I was scared of what i would recive. He told me he would refund it yet I havent seen the money.

I dont want this to happen to other people and their hard earnd money...!
Old 05-16-2012, 12:23 AM   #2
have they be notified?
also can you post the pictures and vet paperwork
im sure you know by now the more proof you have the better
but that is horrible whats going on so far
Old 05-16-2012, 12:33 AM   #3
mikepanzarella, yes they have been notified.. and yes I can provide both.. can you please tell me what the best way to take the pics from my phone and post them on here..?
Old 05-16-2012, 01:09 AM   #4
use the go advanced if you look on the bottom under quick reply box
you have 3 buttons post quick reply,go advanced,and spell check
use go advanced then look for manage pictures and upload them (make sure they fully upload before exiting the screen) then you can post them as a reply
Old 05-16-2012, 01:35 AM   #5
Pictures of the ARU

ARU of the day it died
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ARU 1.jpg (129.1 KB, 2043 views)
File Type: jpg ARU 2.jpg (141.3 KB, 2049 views)
File Type: jpg ARU 3.jpg (107.4 KB, 2036 views)
File Type: jpg VET BILL ARU.jpg (150.5 KB, 2048 views)
Old 05-16-2012, 01:37 AM   #6
That last picture is of a water blister under the shed of the baby biak. and these next few pics are of the scabs randomly on the body, along with the vet bill for the care of the ARU...
Old 05-16-2012, 01:41 AM   #7
More pics...

the baby biak and the Vet bill for the ARU's care
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ARU VET BIll 8.jpg (160.5 KB, 2043 views)
File Type: jpg ARU 7.jpg (185.5 KB, 2048 views)
File Type: jpg ARU 6.jpg (156.1 KB, 2036 views)
Old 05-16-2012, 01:45 AM   #8
last pic.

baby biak continued little scabs on the side.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ARU 9.jpg (127.0 KB, 2032 views)
Old 05-16-2012, 01:56 AM   #9
oh man that really sucks those were beautiful snakes
it does seem (atleast i hope) this will get resolved peacefully you both seem like good guys just different views on the money issue
i understand it can be frustrating and any amount of money is alot to lose
if everything is as seems from what im reading he does owe you for the gtp and biak im sure this will shed light and give him a different angle to look at
Old 05-16-2012, 02:13 AM   #10
I hope your right mikepanzarella...

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