Snakes in the Classroom AND a MORAL dilemma

I've been [i]BUMMED[i] out and upset since mid-day today.

I have had snakes in my classroom at school for three years. The one year I taught freshmen I found that snakes did an immeasurable amount of good, as the students were still "kids" and they really connected with the animals, and thus with me as a teacher. I'm seeing the fruit of that constantly. I have one student who was in the "dummy math" class for freshmen coming in not prepared for High School level math. She was like an exuberant puppy and "bonded" and soaked up knowledge because she liked me as her teacher so very much. In the process she did very well, and was invited to take a very special (invitation only) class last summer so that she would be caught up with the rest of her classmates who began in High School level math. Now she's applying for a program that will result in her graduating with six math classes and with scholarships galore... to me this is directly related to the love she had for animals, and the resultant joy she found in being my student. I have seen this in smaller doses with the rest of my students.

Today I was told: NO SNAKES. I don't know why, but I want to bawl my eyes out! Someone must have complained. I believe it was probably the cleaning crew (the old janitor lady is retiring at the end of march, the ones who will take over her classrooms hate my room because of the evil snakes). Regardless of who complained, my heart is very saddened. I am not mad at the principal, because I believe she was actually told by the superintendant, but regardless, it will leave an emptiness in my classroom. (one of the excuses I was told was that to native americans it is against their religion to even be in the same building as a snake... not sure if that is true)

She said that fish, or perhaps a turtle, that would be okay. Now I gotta get me a turtle.

Now, on to the moral dilemma....

Last year, about this time, I was contacted by someone, who knew someone, who had a pair of cornsnakes that they could no longer keep and wanted to donate them to a classroom. The short of it is that the snakes were donated to me and my classroom. All I had to do was accept them. The class spent several weeks coming up with possible snake names and narrowing it down. In the final vote (but NOT chosen,) were the names: Abalamahalamatandra and Parangaricutirimicudro..... it was so much fun, and Cleo and Cornelius have been my constant classroom critters since last August.

I now feel bad. I accepted these snakes as classroom pets. Now they will no longer grace my classroom. Is it wrong to keep them? In any event, the female is almost certainly gravid, so I could not ship them until the fall when it gets cool again (by the time she lays her eggs and recuperates, it'll be too hot to ship). But I feel so bad, and I am so fond of these two. But I would not like to keep them in my home, having promised they would be in a school classroom if it was unethical.

I can't believe how twisted up inside this is making me feel!!!

What were the stipulations of the agreement? Many times animals are donated, because they were "rescues" that were abused in the past or they had genetic problems rendering them not good for breeding, ie. pet quality only, or the owner gave then away, because they didn't want the snakes used "commercially". Depending on the reason they were donated the fact that one is gravid may be more of an ethical/moral dilema than the one you're asking about.

That out of the way, If you met the "terms" of the donation, and through no fault of your own can not continue to use them in that way, I don't think you keeping them is immoral or unethical in any way. Did the former owners give any stipulations if you didn't want them, ie. if you don't use them in your classroom, we want them back? If not then I think you will be fine if you keep them at home as pets. You might also try to find another way of meeting the initial requirements of the donator. Apparently you had them in a Math class? Try to see if another teacher can have them. A Biology class or other science class may be able to "justify" having them, even given the ignorance of a janitor or administrator. At any rate, in my opinion it would be okay to keep them, and I think most if not all here, would agree.

Thank you for your reply.

There were no "stipulations" to the donation. It was all done through a third party....

"I have a friend who wants the snakes in a classroom, do you want them?"

My response "Yes"

My friend's response, "I'll be in your area on X date, will you be able to pick them up" and also later, "The people who are donating the snakes wouldn't mind the occasional update."

That was the end, middle, and beginning of the deal. I know that they were breeders for at least one year if not several years before they were given to me, and I mentioned in my correspondance that I thought breeding them would be an excellent chance for the kids to really be a part of the whole experience, and also to teach some basic probabilities to the kids. There were never any demurrals or requests not to breed them. They are very healthy individuals with the male being well over four feet long, the female is smaller but still probably at least 5 years old. I know that when she was sent to me she was skinny because she'd just laid a clutch of eggs.

I get the sense from my principal that snakes are just plain NOT going to be tolerated (see reference to possible religious reasons). I know that if it was up to the principal herself, there wouldn't be an issue, but we're dealing with the usual irrational fears here. My preference would be to take the snakes home as pets/breeders, and if/when I get any eggs, (as has always been my plan) I will sell them at a low or reduced amount of money to students and/or I might offer them up as critters for other teacher's classrooms if I find teachers who have accepting principals. I also have planned, since the inception of the Fauna Fund, to take a pair of the prettiest babies, and offer them up as a donation/auction item to go towards the upkeep of Fauna. I have never intended to profit off the animals (though nobody said I couldn't), my heart has always been full of warmth at the thought of the donation itself, I've treated the pair as if they are ambassadors of good will/faith and I will use any offspring they have to encourage spreading the love of herps, whether locally or in a more widespread manner.

If they gave them to you w/o any stipulations (my opinion on this is below) then they're yours to keep.

Here's what I don't like about stipulations. If someone doesn't want an animal and they give it to someone else, why do they think they have the right to tell the person what they can or can't do w/said animal? If they want to control the disposition of that animal, then they should keep it. Once it's given up, it's not theirs any more. If someone is abusing any animal, then that's a different story but to tell someone that they can't sell/give away/breed, the animal they gave them, it's just wrong. Some people don't want an animal but they still want to control what goes on w/it. Clear as mud, huh?

I agree, you did your part. If the person you got them from has a problem, tell them a "friend" of yours from LA now handles all questions about the whereabouts of your snakes and give them my number.

That should take care of any unpleasant situations that arise and I'll have some fun too. Everyone wins.

Bummer about the cleaning crew.

I know a teacher out here who had to remove her green treefrog because the parents didn't want their kids to get salmonella. Riiiiight.

Some people!

Originally Posted by Karen Hulvey

If they gave them to you w/o any stipulations (my opinion on this is below) then they're yours to keep.

Here's what I don't like about stipulations. If someone doesn't want an animal and they give it to someone else, why do they think they have the right to tell the person what they can or can't do w/said animal? If they want to control the disposition of that animal, then they should keep it. Once it's given up, it's not theirs any more. If someone is abusing any animal, then that's a different story but to tell someone that they can't sell/give away/breed, the animal they gave them, it's just wrong. Some people don't want an animal but they still want to control what goes on w/it. Clear as mud, huh?

That's a good point. There is a reptilebreeder who also breeds some kind of rare (re; expensive) dogs, and when you buy one, if I remember correctly, you have to either sign a contract to not breed them and/or get the dog fixed. Talk about a monopoly. Kind of the same thing, though.

Still had Sasheena been given some stipulations and excepted them she should still honor them. Moot point though, since she said there were none. either way she should feel comfortable (and guilt free) keeping them, since it is through no fault of hers that the snakes got evicted.

Thank you again for the input. I very much appreciate it. I doubt I would get any sort of flak from the people who gave me the snakes. I just feel bad that I accepted them for one purpose (and had them here in the class 100% of the time since Sept. 1st) and now they will be "retired" from school life. But I think that if I do as I already planned, and use the babies to spread joy and goodwill around, I cannot be doing less than the original owners wanted anyway. (though truthfully, I am hoping that I might get one or two nice babies to keep for myself as well.)

I appreciate the kind words. It helps in this sad moment in my classroom life. I'll just have to work with my "fishtank" (I'll get a picture and post it here).... fish that my students color in and I post on the walls.

Hi Shasheena,
I have snakes in my classroom (5th grade) and have for over 10 years. I would do a little bit of research on your rights before giving them up. And I would take them home before giving them up due to being booted out of my room.
1) Is this change due to a new Administrator providing a willing ear to the complainer?
2) Was a written complaint filed regarding the snakes?
3) What is your board policy regarding pets in the classroom?
4) Have you checked with your association representative to see what rights you have in this?
5) Did you have them all this time on a verbal ok from the administration, or was it more of a don't ask, don't tell situation?
6) I'm probably reading between the lines, but I think your administrator needs a backbone.

Hopefully you can resolve this. If it is due to a parent complaint I would want some due process and face time. If it's due to an employee compaint, I'd definately want some face time. The cleaning crew shouldn't have the ability to boot out your snakes without some discussion. However, in our current school climate you do have to pick your battles. If your principal is trying to appease a parent maybe you can take them home 'for the summer' and bring them back in August. Let us know how it goes. John

However, in our current school climate you do have to pick your battles.

This is the biggest key. Having animals isn't key to being a high school math teacher. Some would look on it and see it as a frivolous addition. Every day when I go to work it's like I put on the battle gear. I am fighting every day for the students to pay attention, for certain things to happen as they should.

Today was an interesting typical school day...

1. Get to school by 7:30 to arrange the teaching day.
2. Call up the school secretary at 8:25 to find out why the bells haven't rung
3. Argue with a student in first hour class that no matter what, there is no way I'm going to sign off on his doing athletic events until he gets his 18% grade in the class up to passing.
4. Argue with the same student again and again. (and worry that he will go ballistic because I'm keeping him from his "sport")
5. Teach classes
6. Write up a new test document, with answer sheet and key for a math class I don't even teach. (as a favor).
7. Teach classes
8. Cover someone else's class (no prep period for me)
9. Go to the office ten minutes before the end of lunch to get something straightened out (the student who wants to play athletics) and find out I can't have snakes any more.
10. Teach classes.
11. Teach homeroom class and deal with a student who is yelling and threatening because he failed homeroom and refuses to stick around to learn why.
12. Follow up on homeroom student who was belligerent to find out if he went to his assigned classroom.
13. Write up discipline slip on student who didn't go to assigned classroom during homeroom.
14. Teach extended day class (covering for the teacher who couldn't do it).
15. Condense 30 pages of review worksheets into 4 pages because of a shortage of paper.
16. Contact the standardized test coordinater to find out which students attended the test and which did not so that those who cheated are caught in the act. (special form for my students to get signed)
17. Future Freshman Night, stay at school until 8:30 pm.
18. Feel sorrow for the loss of my pets in my classroom.


Jeeze... what a day!

As to some of the points you made, I'll try to address them:

1) Is this change due to a new Administrator providing a willing ear to the complainer?

Truthfully I'm not sure why the change. We've had 3 principals in the 3 1/2 years I've been here. The current one is by far (leap years) the very best one ever.

2) Was a written complaint filed regarding the snakes?

I wasn't even told there WAS a complaint.

3) What is your board policy regarding pets in the classroom?

The principal had a copy of the policy to show me, saying that the policy is simply that the teacher must get permission from the principal. I'm sure I got permission from the first principal, but that was several principals ago

4) Have you checked with your association representative to see what rights you have in this?

No association representative. I'm sure I could press the issue, but refer back to my first comment. It's not a battle worth fighting compared to some of the other battles I am already enmeshed in

5) Did you have them all this time on a verbal ok from the administration, or was it more of a don't ask, don't tell situation?

I believe the first principal either gave me an okay in advance, or at least didn't seem bothered by it and it was common knowledge. (My picture has been in the school yearbook several year's running with me holding a snake!)

6) I'm probably reading between the lines, but I think your administrator needs a backbone.

In this case it's hard to know. I DO know that the principal is a very fair and just woman, and I know she has a lot of pressures on her from the sometimes backwards folks of this podunk town. I doubt she is doing this lightly. I think that some time in the future I might broach the issue again, or just get a turtle (she said that would be different). I know that as her first year as principal it is a difficult time for her, because she is evaluated as much as we are by the performance.

I think in this case too, there is the fact that we've barely been ONE year in a new school building, and SOME of the teachers have completely TRASHED their classrooms (including one science teacher with many animals). DESTROYED the brand new facilities. I think that she is under fiscal pressure due to the inability to get repairs on these ruined facilities and so she is coming down hard on ALL teachers with any issue like this one. She couldn't get mad at the one teacher and not me too... unfair.

POLITICS ... I never wanted to be a politician... why did I become a teacher?

Sasheena,
First, I'm sorry I misspelled your name. I don't know where you are in your career, but I'm 2 years away from retirement so I tend to be a little grumpy when the status quo changes without good explanations. It seems education today is nothing but reactionary change. Sadly, it really does boil down to choosing which battle is important in the long run. Someday you might really need the backing of this administrator and accepting some decisions willingly, yet grudgingly, puts points on your side. Maybe someday we can have a long OT discussion on losing preps, (we get paid after losing 5), kids with too much to do in their lives, and education in general. But on second thought, I'd much rather talk herps and tarantulas. In any case, I would not hesitate to keep these snakes yourself. You've provided a good home for them, its not your fault they have to be moved. John