Inclusion for Rosy's? Erratic Behavior

(for my first thread I have to say it's a great, informative site... thanks) :eatpointe

My question is about a male Desert Rosy that belongs to a good friend of mine. She's convinced that he's going to die, so I took him in for repair . Her other good friend, who works for a vet and supposedly "knows", told her that the snake had "Stargazer's". I want to help but I have very little experience with IBD and symptoms. I feel responsible as to this snake's health because this is her first snake and I was the one to suggest that she get a captive bred Rosy. For me, growing up in northwestern Arizona ( high desert, 3300ft), my main area of knowledge is about SW US colubrids and lizard species ( really would love to name them all..have been catching them all my life...Gila's, Diamondbacks, Whiptails, Collareds, Horned, Leopards, Zebra-Tails, Geckos, Fences, Splotches, Patches, Racers, etc., etc., etc ). I have not learned so much about native boas. I would love some advice on the proper diagnosis for this Rosy. I have owned a (now) 7.5ft Boa Constrictor for a few years, so I have read up on Inclusion Body Disorder (as I understand it, it's more common in the larger Boas) though I don't know the traits of North American Boas well enough to recognize the puzzling behavior I am seeing in this specimen.

We bought this C.B. snake at a very reputable local store here in Mesa, AZ (Arizona Reptile Center) along with the enclosure and care kit. This snake has never been in another snake's enclosure or vice-versa, and has always been fed prekilled/frozen pinkies and hoppers. The enclosure size and water dish are more than adequate for him. Hiding spot (log) temps stay at 75-80F and basking area (climbing branch) remains 85-90F (exterior halogen 10 hours on, 14 hours off). Substrate is newspaper +1-2 inches of medium shredded aspen.

This snake has not eaten in 4 weeks. I am aware that it's common during these winter months for this species to take an eating "break"... and I know how long most snakes can endure a fasting. In the last week I have attempted several size mice... live pinkies and just weaned...he would put his nose right to them and shy away. He has just molted 2 weeks ago as well, nice and healthy, in one piece. If he's just not hungry right now that's fine, it's how he is moving that concerns me. He moves around the enclosure normally... I see him even in the dark hours cruising over the water dish and climbing/hunting normally ( and I've tried to feed him during these times... with fresh prekill in the hiding spot). When I took him outside yesterday though, it was about 75F outside and I let him cruise through the grass. He keeps "inching" forward, I have seen him move this way in the enclosure as well. On the ground, he moved about 6 feet in 15 minutes. He will ever so slightly move his head forward and backward, but hardly get anywhere. Like I said before, I highly doubt that this is an inclusion disorder due to the exact knowledge of his captive history - I just wanna know what the hell might be going on.

I really would like to take a fecal sample to my herp vet, though to get the snake to produce the sample, I'm wondering if I should resort to force feeding (or "pumping" some pinkies) to get him to sh*t. If anyone out there can give me some insight, that would be great. I know I ramble on, but I think the info is pertinent. Thanks for listening....


P.S.
Here is a picture of the snake. The picture quality is crappy I know, thanks to my sh**ty camera. This specimen has the sharper defined stripes characteristic of the deserts, and I have attempted to represent the colors here in the photo. The store did not specify the subspecies/region, so if anybody had a guess as to the lineage that'd be great.

[IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RQAAAJMUJd3doq20EeKC7niMsYUO7X1Z9XGirb6uV61sa0Eqn h*K1K0KbRcr1gIvKgwxbO*taN1WVNiZfvD6bORo2HXiCUN*qew 3xp1AaVM/heathersrosy.jpg?dc=4675561189806929923[/IMG]

I should also mention that while I was looking into this problem, I found a great article about viruses and safely quarantining herps for your collection. CLICK HERE



Thanks

_GTC_

Well the pic didn't come up, I don't know why. It's stored in a public MSN group, I will try one more time (since I am disallowed from edited my original post) If this one doesn't display, the just paste the adddress into your browser address bar to see the (shi**y) pic. :scatter:

[IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RQDlApMUJd3doq20EeKC7niMsYUO7X1Z9XGirb6uV61sa0Eqn h*K1K0KbRcr1gIvKgwxbO*taN1WVNiZfvD6bORo2HXiCUN*qew 3xp1AaVM/heathersrosy.jpg?dc=4675561189806929923[/IMG]

Does not seem like IBD to me, though I do not know exactly how it would effect a rosy boa. With my experience with rosy's some just are not very active. I would give it a couple more weeks before doing anything stressful, if it is not losing any weight. As mentioned, he may not want to eat at the moment. How old is the snake?

The snake is about 1 year old, and has always readily eaten thawed pinkies/hoppers. Actually, when he was a couple of months old, he was quite voracious and would even bite my friend and I when handled. I figured this was a overactive eating instinct (and was a little embarrassing because I told her how very docile rosy boas are known to be.) He got over that thought after a couple of weeks of periodic handling.

Note.... just tonight he bit at a hopper, ate it half way, and spit it out - twice. What could be the problem here? I'm not over concerned now, I will wait and see like you said in the next week or two, though I'll really start getting worried if this continues.

Thanks

Does he constrict at all? Or just bite and swallow?

Yes he constricted though it was already dead, of course. Then when he tried to swallow it, half the time it looked like he was trying to eat it and half the time he was squirming around looking like he was trying to spit it out, which he eventually did.

Really doesn't sound like IBD to Me either. I wouldn't be too concerned about it not eating either. Many of My Rosy males refuse to eat this time of Year. I believe there is some connection with a refusal to feed coinciding with the winter months which are too cold to digest meals as well as the desire to breed. Breeding behavior could be a possibility even at a year old. Was this snake not put into brumation this year? Maybe it would have benefited from a brumation, as is natural for this species in the winter months.

No, he was not put into brumation... I didn't think it necessary to advise my friend to do it the first year. He hasn't appeared to lose any weight - I am probably being overly concerned and you are probably correct about the winter months. I will wait and see a couple more weeks like I said... I appreciate all the input.

It almost sounds like he wants to eat, but can't for some reason. I'd try to open his mouth and make sure nothing looks amiss. I've heard of snakes getting slivers or pieces of wood, etc. stuck in their mouths and developing infections. If he had something like an absess, in the mouth or throat this could conceivably lead to difficulties swallowing. If everything looks fine, give him some more time and offer smaller prey. If he still tries to eat, but has trouble swallowing, you may want to look for a good vet. The fact that he's trying to eat / making multiple attempts and not getting it down, raises red flags for me.

-Alice

Hey he ate two good sized hoppers today. Woo hoo! Thanks everyone.