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Info Thomas Tremain, Portland Oregon, USA

Had tom approached the situation differently, we would not be having this conversation. The leap right to suing me is whats aggrivating me. As I said previously, I would've worked with Tom, and split the difference if he would've kept and sold the snakes. I would be willing to reason and negotiate with anyone.
 
Brent - This thread shouldn't be about you...but you brought yourself into it. When you sell a snake as a female, it proves to be a male, why should there be negotiation? You misrepresented the animals, the buyer shouldn't HAVE to negotiate...if a refund is desired, it should be given. About the only exception would be if you were offering a substitution, and that is IF the buyer was open to the idea.

Buyer beware...really??
What a :censored:

So you are recommending against dealing with Thomas Tremain because you tried to rip him off, then refused to give him a refund...and he didn't suck it up and go away?
(please see my previous statement)
 
If you had bother to read the thread, I said it was a pleasent experience until he threatened to sue me. I had a very bad expeience with him and I've been explaining it. And as such, I've come under fire. Having had experience with Tom; as bad one at that, I felt it would've been wrong for me not to interject my proceedings with him.

And demanding gets you no where. I didn't try to rip him off, there was no intention to mislead. I for one am not taking anyones word on thier OWN probing of the snakes. Hence the 3rd party; whom I trust, doing it. He got his refund, I paid for the probing and got the snakes back, which quite thankfully moved on to better homes then I could provide at the time.

Do you jump right to suing someone without reasoning with them first? Speak frankly, please.

I said no because, one) I don't trust him to accurately probe (see above), and 2) because he had no credentials (not in the BOI or even on this, or any other site at the time) and he may have been trying to pull a fast one on me. Luckily enough I did have photos of the snakes for verification and after the 3rd party probing he got what he wanted.

My issue with it is not that he wanted a refund, but that he demanded it in a unprofessional manner.

I have never in my life dealt with someone who jumps right into suing someone because they don't like how things went down. Its down right childish.
 
And one more thing. HELL YES THE BUYER BEWARE. Had he asked for verification of sex of sex before purchasing, or even if he had whiped out a probe right then and there sexed them infront of me I would've taken no offense to it. In hindsight, I would've thought it was a good idea.

Again, I bought them as females, I sold them as females. I never had any reason not to trust the guy I bought them from. And again, I admit that was my fault for not verifying it.

If Tom were willing to admit that his actions after the fact (IE threatening to sue me) were a bit extreme, I would be willing to give him a thumbs up. I say again, our transaction was pleasent and professional up until everything he demanded his money back.
 
I did read the story...seemed to me that things went south when you refused to refund his money after you sent him 3 males. Did you ask him right away to have the snakes probed by a third party? or was that part of your negotiation?

I've made the same dumb mistake - sent off a snake that I bought as female without having checked for myself. I heard a year or so later that she had received a mis-sexed snake, so I asked if it was the one I sent. When the answer was yes, I immediately offered more than the amount paid because she had wasted a year growing that snake. The only negotiation was because she asked for credit against a future purchase, instead.
 
I told him no after HIS probing. He threatened to sue. I told him we're getting checked out professionally, on his dime if he was wrong, and on mine if he was right.

Obviously it turned out he was right and he promptly recieved all of his money back. And it was 4 snakes, not 3. I mentioned that in a previous post.
 
Someone who threatens to sue over $120 is obviously just blowing hot air trying to provoke the seller into doing the right thing... no one that's ever been involved in even small claims court proceedings would bother picking up the phone to call a lawyer for $120. Heck, they wouldn't bother driving to the courthouse and representing themselves over $120. This is obvious to anyone that has even been involved in bona fide legal proceedings... the corollary is that anyone who blasts off about "suing" over such a minuscule amount of money has obviously never been involved in legal proceedings, and as such can be known to be talking our their hind end right from the get-go.

But DEMAND my money back after I've been sold something that was not as described? Absolutely. That you would discredit a buyer that rightfully demanded their money back after receiving a product not as described is telling, I think. Sure, he did it in a fairly childish way, but right is right, regardless if everyone acts correctly. The fact that you are basically recommending that buyers beware when buying from you (your words, not mine) tells everyone everything they need to know, I think...
 
Buyers beware when buying. PERIOD. Me or otherwise. Its a very common saying.

I'm done with this thread for the time being. Clearly jumping to sue someone is much more reasonable these days then talking out a solution. Atleast, thats what I've taken away from this thread. There are much better ways to get what you want other then provocation.
 
Well after all is said and done in the end, if you buy something as a female and sell it as female and it turns out to be male you owe them a refund plain and simple. I have sexed over 1000 snakes and do i make mistakes sure i do do i keep in my sex guarantee you bet i do. Its not all your fault that you sold something that was sold to you but in the end your responsible for it. Now you did do good on your part making it right but as stated above he was probably blowing hot air to get you to do whats right. End of story good for you doing what was right but its no need to blast someones name for you having a bad experience for something he cant control. But all said and done i cant wait to do business with Thomas he does have some amazing looking animals.

:thumbsup::):D:D:D:):thumbsup:
 
Clearly I've been the one under attack in this thread.

To make the points clear.

Yes, I refused Tom a refund. This was over a year ago before I learned that the stake of my selling animals fell to my reputation. Never did I think that my proceeding with him would have a long lasting effect. I wish the rest of my proceedings with others were here to back me up.

Tom DID threaten to sue me with little provocation (in my opinion). My story here was more of a word of caution, and was not meant to destroy his reputation, though it seems to have done that to mine.

And I DID learn from this. All snakes are sexed by me, and then professionally to insure that they are correct. And refunds are always accepted given reasonable cause for one (immediate death of animal, doa, not being correct snake/gender).

I hope this clears things up.
 
Bleepr said:
Clearly I've been the one under attack in this thread.

To make the points clear.

Yes, I refused Tom a refund. This was over a year ago before I learned that the stake of my selling animals fell to my reputation. Never did I think that my proceeding with him would have a long lasting effect. I wish the rest of my proceedings with others were here to back me up.

Tom DID threaten to sue me with little provocation (in my opinion). My story here was more of a word of caution, and was not meant to destroy his reputation, though it seems to have done that to mine.

And I DID learn from this. All snakes are sexed by me, and then professionally to insure that they are correct. And refunds are always accepted given reasonable cause for one (immediate death of animal, doa, not being correct snake/gender).

I hope this clears things up.
Click to expand...

Yup....clears things up perfectly! I now know that if I had dealt with you a year ago, and you had acted improperly, I could expect you to insert yourself into an inquiry about me with the following "word of caution".

Bleepr said:
I have. I wouldn't ever again. He wont be afraid to bend you over a table to get what he wants.
Click to expand...

Word of caution my :censored:!
 
I said that based on my experience with him. And in my case, thats what I feel happened, and I stand by it. I will not work with Tom again, just as I'm sure we wont work with me.

And yes, had you threaten to sue me like he did, I would insert myself into an inquiry of you. Isn't that the point of the BOI? To help inform other users, or am I missing the point entirely?
 
I've been able to dig up the emails between Tom and myself from, and he was much more reasonable then I recall. It was the tone of the email he sent, the one threatening me, then I most recall, and the basis of my "attack".

While I still maintain that the threat was a bit extreme, Tom did offer to rehome the snakes for me, while still demanding a refund (and before threatening me). I took this is he wanted his money back AND the money from the selling the snakes. My inexperience and frustration with the matter added to the poor judgment (and misread), and thus, added fuel to the fire.

And while I still don't wish to deal with Tom, in fear of this happening again, I hope this paints a better picture. Though I'm sure I'm shooting myself in the foot here, I would like to say that in looking back over the emails, and knowing what I know now (and put into practice) the fault was entirely mine.

Had I tracked down the emails before making my first, or any other posts, I'm sure the tone of this thread would be much more friendly.

Again. Tom and my disagreement, in hindsight, was my fault, and I'm sorry that I misconstrued the information before going back and checking my records.
 
Bleepr said:
I've been able to dig up the emails between Tom and myself from, and he was much more reasonable then I recall. It was the tone of the email he sent, the one threatening me, then I most recall, and the basis of my "attack".

While I still maintain that the threat was a bit extreme, Tom did offer to rehome the snakes for me, while still demanding a refund (and before threatening me). I took this is he wanted his money back AND the money from the selling the snakes. My inexperience and frustration with the matter added to the poor judgment (and misread), and thus, added fuel to the fire.

And while I still don't wish to deal with Tom, in fear of this happening again, I hope this paints a better picture. Though I'm sure I'm shooting myself in the foot here, I would like to say that in looking back over the emails, and knowing what I know now (and put into practice) the fault was entirely mine.

Had I tracked down the emails before making my first, or any other posts, I'm sure the tone of this thread would be much more friendly.

Again. Tom and my disagreement, in hindsight, was my fault, and I'm sorry that I misconstrued the information before going back and checking my records.
Click to expand...

Quite the contrary....it takes a big man to admit wrongdoing, and I commend you for coming back here to set the record straight. That will go a long way towards others' perception of you.
 
I have sold animals to Thomas on several occasions and have never had a bad experience. I wouldnt hesitate to do it again.


Noah Hart Criswell
 
Thomas has purchased multiple animals from me over the years and has always been a pleasure to work with. I wouldn't hesitate to vouch for his character.

Sincerely,
Jeff R. Hoffman
 
Thanks Jeff! Thanks Noah!

The animals I purchased from you guys are fine animals. (Even if some of those are the main ones my ex-wife sold on her way out the door.)
 
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