Bad Guy Reptidoc Dr. Darryl G. Walker

[Em Wright]

I challenge anyone to buy 10 snakes from Doc. Then to keep all of them alive for just 2 months. I bet that it can not be done. I would love to see someone prove me wrong. I would even pay what little bit of money I have to see someone prove me wrong.

Sorry those snakes do not work for any challenge. They were not put through a winter cool down with no food like mine were. I also bet that the ones you got were all over 10grams. When most of the ones I received were under 10grams and twice as old as the ones you just received.

Oh no you don't.

#1 Your initial challenge said "buy 10 snake from Doc.... keep all of them alive for just 2 months."

#2 These other conditions are baseless accusations that you've no proof to back up. (What "proof" you do have is more self-incriminating) Just your word, and that's not enough. Especially considering you could be lying about the whole thing (I didn't say you were, just that you could be for all we know) and therefore those conditions could never be met.

Though I think you trying to add conditions means your little challenge was nothing but hot air... and if you're willing to spout hot air about that, then it makes me wonder... is everything you've said in this thread hot air?

 

[wyldwurm]

Though I think you trying to add conditions means your little challenge was nothing but hot air... and if you're willing to spout hot air about that, then it makes me wonder... is everything you've said in this thread hot air?

Very well said and I couldn't agree more.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Sorry those snakes do not work for any challenge. They were not put through a winter cool down with no food like mine were. I also bet that the ones you got were all over 10grams. When most of the ones I received were under 10grams and twice as old as the ones you just received.

Now I thought this thread was over with after the update that lost so many post. About 40 to be exact. I had a whole list of post that I was going to comment to and did not post them because I thought this was over with.

I will be happy to continue this just say the word. What am I going to do make you people hate me and bash me even more. I think you are all pretty much at your limit on that. But the one thing I can do is change a few minds. I can not make anything worse so if you wish to continue this then lets rumble. I think I even have some of the post that were deleted saved. So I could repost them.

You sir are the poster child for the phrase "Some people never know when to quit"

Rarely have I seen someone expend so much effort in shooting himself in the foot.

 

[Southern Wolf]

Sorry those snakes do not work for any challenge. They were not put through a winter cool down with no food like mine were.

Did I miss the post where this was proven as fact?

 

[starsevol]

Did I miss the post where this was proven as fact?

I have read the whole thread, and this was NEVER proven as fact....

.....and still this specimen says " if you want to continue this, let's rumble".

Dumber than a bag of hammers, I swear.....

 

[Vinman]

This is really becoming a soap opera, I dont think anything will be solved . At least I will give credit that the thread is becoming more civil. I did not want to get involved with this drama but was asked to read this thread and comment. I'm glad I did for one reason. I found out the crappy side of some that posted here. I now know that some of you that were supposed to be nice people with a good reputation , well that's out the window I seen the true low life in some of you and seen childish side of your personality. What a shame one person on here I highly regarded, not anymore. I glad to see the real side of some of you. Hiding behind your computer acting like a bad ass. Pitiful.

Bottom line

I know doc. I like him and this is the first time I seen something bad posted about him. Josh on the other hand I know him from the corn snake chat room and I enjoyed my talks with him. I been breeding reptiles since 1985. I'm not going to say names but I will say this. I know many breeders very well all big names or big breeders . All of these people have very good reputations and I know people that either got animals from them and were not totally satisfied with the animals they received or got screwed. Thats right , this came from people I know very well, some right in the NY TRI State Aera . I have see what they got first hand, in person and shook my head and said WOW I never expected that from them. I wont mention the breeders names on this public forum. I'm friends with most of them and dont want to spoil that. Remember Money is money and when you come down to it, MONEY is the root of all evil.

 

[Outcast]

MONEY is the root of all evil.

I have seen this said a number of times over the past couple of days. The correct quote is "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs." 1 Timothy 6:10

It is amazing how well that verse translates into business, you see many people throw out their ethics and morals just to get a little extra money.

 

[bloodybaroness]

Here is my issue and I'm done.

We have heard direct reports from people buying and seeing Doc's animals in person. All good reports and I do not think that Doc's care and husbandry are lacking in any way based on their experiences.

Then we have Josh, who by his own admissions in the thread, has sub-standard care practices in certain areas. He also can not provide a single piece of credible proof to back up his claims.

Also we have this gem:

Sorry those snakes do not work for any challenge. They were not put through a winter cool down with no food like mine were. I also bet that the ones you got were all over 10grams. When most of the ones I received were under 10grams and twice as old as the ones you just received.

I want rock solid, indisputable, without question PROOF your snakes were cooled by Doc.

Put up or shut up.

 

[Reptileman81]

This is really becoming a soap opera, I dont think anything will be solved . At least I will give credit that the thread is becoming more civil. I did not want to get involved with this drama but was asked to read this thread and comment. I'm glad I did for one reason. I found out the crappy side of some that posted here. I now know that some of you that were supposed to be nice people with a good reputation , well that's out the window I seen the true low life in some of you and seen childish side of your personality. What a shame one person on here I highly regarded, not anymore. I glad to see the real side of some of you. Hiding behind your computer acting like a bad ass. Pitiful.

Bottom line

I know doc. I like him and this is the first time I seen something bad posted about him. Josh on the other hand I know him from the corn snake chat room and I enjoyed my talks with him. I been breeding reptiles since 1985. I'm not going to say names but I will say this. I know many breeders very well all big names or big breeders . All of these people have very good reputations and I know people that either got animals from them and were not totally satisfied with the animals they received or got screwed. Thats right , this came from people I know very well, some right in the NY TRI State Aera . I have see what they got first hand, in person and shook my head and said WOW I never expected that from them. I wont mention the breeders names on this public forum. I'm friends with most of them and dont want to spoil that. Remember Money is money and when you come down to it, MONEY is the root of all evil.

Vinman you so have a way with words. Once again you ever write a book I want the first copy. This is pretty much the point. Yes Doc is a reputable name. But everyone makes mistakes. Especially when money is involved. He walked away with $800 of mine. I dont know about the rest of you but that is a lot of money for me. I am sure he was glad to have that money and was willing to do just about anything for it in these hard times. Especially in the corn snake industry. Hell the whole reptile industry has seen the hit from our highest ever unemployment rate and all around bad economy.

So pretty much this is how it is. For the most part Doc is a good reputable name and breeder. One that I will not do business with again. This is what the BOI is for to tell others of your bad business dealings. If I had sold someone some bad snakes and they talked bad about it on here it would be the same thing. You people would rip that person apart. Why because I have no bad dealings on here. So far my name has been moving up in the industry. Give me a few more years and everyone will know of me. I guaranty that I will never sell undersized, unhealthy snakes. No matter how hard times are. Which is why my ads are still taken down in case none of you have noticed. They will remain down until my stock has been tested for Crypto.

Then there is that point. No matter if I am right or ReptileDoc. No matter if the snake got Crypto from something I may have done or not. The point is just 6 months earlier this snake was in Doc's hands. So it may have very well came from his stock and not mine. That said I took my few ads down until I get a few snakes tested. But Doc is still selling away. Dont you people think that maybe just maybe to be on the safe side Doc should have a few test done himself. But no instead he is just selling more and more snakes that could very well have Crypto. After all this is something that could take up to a couple of years for it to show. So saying that who ever it was that just saw his operation and said it all looked fine. First off I bet you did not see ever snake in his collection. That would take hours to look over ever snake. He has hundreds. Second even if you had done this does not mean that you would of found anything. Crypto could still be laying dormient in his collection.

I think this makes pretty good sense to me. I mean think about it. If it was your snake you had sold that could have such a terrible incurable disease dont you think you would have some test done. I know I will before anything leaves this house. Also once again keep in mind that these snakes are still in quarantine. So chances are if one had Crypto it showed up with if from Doc. If it didnt show up with Crypto then it got it from another one of Doc's snakes that I got from him that were in quarantine with the said snake.

As for me shooting myself in the foot. Really what am I going to do. Get you people and the hundreds that have read this thread to never do business with me again. I think most of you have already made up your mind on that one. So really the only way I can show my face around here is if I can get a few of you to see that maybe just maybe I am right and Doc is at fault. No I do not have the proof that some of you would like to see. I have still shown my records and what proof I could. Yes these records have led most of you to think that I feed my snakes to much or to little. After all the 3 week period where my snakes didnt eat and the 10 and 11 days here and there they didnt eat means I didnt feed them enough right. (which is what was said about the lavender motley records that I put up because this snake is still going but not growing) But then you say that I over fed them because the snake would eat and regurg and I would just feed it again. (which is what was said about the Goldust Motley that ended up dying because of some lump in him that could of been Crypto and could of come from Doc's collection) Why dont you go back and look at those records. They are the same. I feed all my babies and juv. at the same time. Then the adults a couple of days later. So which is it. Do I feed to little or to much.

Then there is the whole feeding schedule of mine. So because most of you fallow the chart that says a baby and some juv. should eat every 5-7 days and a adult every 7-10days. Just because this is what you believe should be done does not mean that the way I feed is wrong. Some including Vinman have said how me feeding without much of a schedule is ok. Some have said that they feed this way as well. One person said that snakes dont eat on a schedule in the wild. They have to hunt for there food in the wild. Sure they go out every night looking for food. But that does not mean they find food every night or ever 5-7days or 7-10days for that matter. Sometimes they find food for a couple of days. Other times they go without food for a few weeks. I would love for someone to show me some proof that snakes eat every 5-7 days in the wild. Believe me you will not. Now if I go and look for some discovery channel show or something that has to do with snakes they will say how sometimes they go weeks or months without food depending on the size, species, and area of the world they come from. Some places snakes live food is not plentiful.

Pretty much I am stating facts that in the wild "NO" snake eats on a set schedule. This is how I am many reputable breeders feed. Some like Doc do not feed there babies in the winter. They just cool those babies down with there adults and juv. so they can save on food. After all for people like Doc being a bigger reputable breeder has to watch there over head. Now most of the time putting babies in a winter cool down is not a bad thing. Most of the time it will in no way harm the snakes. But sometimes it is the worst thing you can do for them. If a baby snake is very under weight it could be very harmful to put it in a winter cool down. Say if it was several babies under 10grams. A few being only 7grams. And a couple being 5grams. These snakes would suffer from a winter cool down. This I believe is were Doc went wrong. He was not selling them at the time so he put them down for a winter cooling. Then spring came around and a potental buyer as well (myself) so they were sold. Look back at the ads that were posted for the snakes that I purchased in late Feb early Mar. You will not find these snakes for sale in the winter. Sure you can say "well that is because Doc does not ship snakes in the winter". This may very well be. But just as any other big name even if the weather is no good for shipping the snakes are still for sale and would just get shipped once the weather was better for shipping. You can also say well maybe Doc deleted older for sale ads for these snakes. If that was the case then how is it that he has any old ads. Most of his ads are still up.

 

[Reptileman81]

I have seen this said a number of times over the past couple of days. The correct quote is "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs." 1 Timothy 6:10

It is amazing how well that verse translates into business, you see many people throw out their ethics and morals just to get a little extra money.

Exactly. I am not saying that Doc always sells undesized and unhealthy snakes. I am just saying that he saw some dollar signs and it got the best of him. He then sold some of his stock that most of the time he would not sell until it was in better shape.

 

[wyldwurm]

Exactly. I am not saying that Doc always sells undesized and unhealthy snakes.

You were told before the sale that these snakes were from double clutches and smaller than normal. You purchased then knowing exactly that. You also showed, in this thread, your feeding schedule. That, in my opinion, left much to be desired and more than likely (also my opinion) contributed to the poor thriving of these animals.
I don't know either of you and I am stating this simply from what I have read here. Back-peddling and insisting without solid evidence isn't helping your case one tiny iota.
Again, my opinion based of facts.

 

[starsevol]

Vinman you so have a way with words. Once again you ever write a book I want the first copy. This is pretty much the point. Yes Doc is a reputable name. But everyone makes mistakes. Especially when money is involved. He walked away with $800 of mine. I dont know about the rest of you but that is a lot of money for me. I am sure he was glad to have that money and was willing to do just about anything for it in these hard times. Especially in the corn snake industry. Hell the whole reptile industry has seen the hit from our highest ever unemployment rate and all around bad economy.

So pretty much this is how it is. For the most part Doc is a good reputable name and breeder. One that I will not do business with again. This is what the BOI is for to tell others of your bad business dealings. If I had sold someone some bad snakes and they talked bad about it on here it would be the same thing. You people would rip that person apart. Why because I have no bad dealings on here. So far my name has been moving up in the industry. Give me a few more years and everyone will know of me. I guaranty that I will never sell undersized, unhealthy snakes. No matter how hard times are. Which is why my ads are still taken down in case none of you have noticed. They will remain down until my stock has been tested for Crypto.

Then there is that point. No matter if I am right or ReptileDoc. No matter if the snake got Crypto from something I may have done or not. The point is just 6 months earlier this snake was in Doc's hands. So it may have very well came from his stock and not mine. That said I took my few ads down until I get a few snakes tested. But Doc is still selling away. Dont you people think that maybe just maybe to be on the safe side Doc should have a few test done himself. But no instead he is just selling more and more snakes that could very well have Crypto. After all this is something that could take up to a couple of years for it to show. So saying that who ever it was that just saw his operation and said it all looked fine. First off I bet you did not see ever snake in his collection. That would take hours to look over ever snake. He has hundreds. Second even if you had done this does not mean that you would of found anything. Crypto could still be laying dormient in his collection.

I think this makes pretty good sense to me. I mean think about it. If it was your snake you had sold that could have such a terrible incurable disease dont you think you would have some test done. I know I will before anything leaves this house. Also once again keep in mind that these snakes are still in quarantine. So chances are if one had Crypto it showed up with if from Doc. If it didnt show up with Crypto then it got it from another one of Doc's snakes that I got from him that were in quarantine with the said snake.

As for me shooting myself in the foot. Really what am I going to do. Get you people and the hundreds that have read this thread to never do business with me again. I think most of you have already made up your mind on that one. So really the only way I can show my face around here is if I can get a few of you to see that maybe just maybe I am right and Doc is at fault. No I do not have the proof that some of you would like to see. I have still shown my records and what proof I could. Yes these records have led most of you to think that I feed my snakes to much or to little. After all the 3 week period where my snakes didnt eat and the 10 and 11 days here and there they didnt eat means I didnt feed them enough right. (which is what was said about the lavender motley records that I put up because this snake is still going but not growing) But then you say that I over fed them because the snake would eat and regurg and I would just feed it again. (which is what was said about the Goldust Motley that ended up dying because of some lump in him that could of been Crypto and could of come from Doc's collection) Why dont you go back and look at those records. They are the same. I feed all my babies and juv. at the same time. Then the adults a couple of days later. So which is it. Do I feed to little or to much.

Then there is the whole feeding schedule of mine. So because most of you fallow the chart that says a baby and some juv. should eat every 5-7 days and a adult every 7-10days. Just because this is what you believe should be done does not mean that the way I feed is wrong. Some including Vinman have said how me feeding without much of a schedule is ok. Some have said that they feed this way as well. One person said that snakes dont eat on a schedule in the wild. They have to hunt for there food in the wild. Sure they go out every night looking for food. But that does not mean they find food every night or ever 5-7days or 7-10days for that matter. Sometimes they find food for a couple of days. Other times they go without food for a few weeks. I would love for someone to show me some proof that snakes eat every 5-7 days in the wild. Believe me you will not. Now if I go and look for some discovery channel show or something that has to do with snakes they will say how sometimes they go weeks or months without food depending on the size, species, and area of the world they come from. Some places snakes live food is not plentiful.

Pretty much I am stating facts that in the wild "NO" snake eats on a set schedule. This is how I am many reputable breeders feed. Some like Doc do not feed there babies in the winter. They just cool those babies down with there adults and juv. so they can save on food. After all for people like Doc being a bigger reputable breeder has to watch there over head. Now most of the time putting babies in a winter cool down is not a bad thing. Most of the time it will in no way harm the snakes. But sometimes it is the worst thing you can do for them. If a baby snake is very under weight it could be very harmful to put it in a winter cool down. Say if it was several babies under 10grams. A few being only 7grams. And a couple being 5grams. These snakes would suffer from a winter cool down. This I believe is were Doc went wrong. He was not selling them at the time so he put them down for a winter cooling. Then spring came around and a potental buyer as well (myself) so they were sold. Look back at the ads that were posted for the snakes that I purchased in late Feb early Mar. You will not find these snakes for sale in the winter. Sure you can say "well that is because Doc does not ship snakes in the winter". This may very well be. But just as any other big name even if the weather is no good for shipping the snakes are still for sale and would just get shipped once the weather was better for shipping. You can also say well maybe Doc deleted older for sale ads for these snakes. If that was the case then how is it that he has any old ads. Most of his ads are still up.

You are right, in nature a snake does not eat on a set schedule. Also in nature most snakes die before reaching a year old. They get eaten by birds or other animals, they get parasites, they get hit by cars and they starve to death. As keepers, we are supposed to care for them BETTER than nature.

 

[Reptileman81]

You were told before the sale that these snakes were from double clutches and smaller than normal. You purchased then knowing exactly that. You also showed, in this thread, your feeding schedule. That, in my opinion, left much to be desired and more than likely (also my opinion) contributed to the poor thriving of these animals.
I don't know either of you and I am stating this simply from what I have read here. Back-peddling and insisting without solid evidence isn't helping your case one tiny iota.
Again, my opinion based of facts.

First off I dont know where you got this information from. I did not know they were all from a double clutch when I purchased them. I was told after they arrived at my home when I asked what there ages were because I felt they were on the very small side for being 09's in 2010 that he could not give me exact hatch dates. I wanted said dates because A. I felt they were very small and B. because the Viper tracking software I use keeps track of every snakes exact age up to the min. Doc told me he could not provide me with any hatch dates because he did not have exact dates. He simply told me that some were from Jun and Jul and some were from Sept and Oct. This is what was said. No I dont have any emails to back that up sorry. I know what was said about hatch dates. Which is why I put on my records the hatch dates that I did. I guessed at them so that I would have something in my records and so that the software would keep track of some kind of age of the snakes.

As you stated all of what you said is your opinion. None of which is fact. As for me helping my case as I said I can not make it any worse for myself. I already have dozens if not hundreds of people that will not do business with me because of how you people miss represented what has been said this whole thread. Most of you dont know me and none of you have done business with me so you can not judge me or my animals even though that is what has happened here. Some of you dont know Doc and most have not done business with him but yet you are willing to back him up and he has no shred of proof of anything either. He is to good to even put up hatch dates and his fed records on here. Doesnt that sound funny. I know I would provide that info if I was the one on trial. Which I have because this whole thread has been me on trial and not Doc. Which is who this thread is about. He has proved nothing. He has not shown any evidence to disprove my claim. He will not because he has no proof and can not disprove my claim because my claim is the truth.

 

[Shiari]

They are the same. I feed all my babies and juv. at the same time. Then the adults a couple of days later. So which is it. Do I feed to little or to much.

For the situation with the regurge, you absolutely 100% were feeding that snake too often for the gut flora to recover. With that feeding schedule, you absolutely 100% contributed to its death. And by not taking it to a vet, you will never know if it was something that could have been treated or if untreatable, what the actual cause was.

'Cause you know what? I had a snake that developed a large lump in its middle that made it look like it had perpetually just eaten. You know what it was? A giant abscess that caused my snake to go septic. You never mentioned that the snake in question had large amounts of icky mucus-filled diarrhea. Don't try claiming it now.


For the situation with the snakes not growing well, you are feeding too little overall. I've had times with my own snakes where I had to stretch out the feedings because I was running low on pinks and waiting for my order to arrive. At one feeding every 10 to 14 days, a hatchling does not grow much, if at all. A couple feeds just a few days apart do not make up for the overall large gaps.

In the first feed schedule you posted, you once again show a complete lack of knowledge with regurge protocol by feeding the snake too quickly again after the regurge, and by increasing the prey size too soon. That is why he "made a turn for the worse". And when averaged, there was one meal every 9 days or so, near the "not growing much" point for a feed schedule. But of course, there was that nice month long gap with no feeds, a bunch of 10 and 11 day spans in there as well.

The second one you posted, which included weights, shows an average of food every 9 days for the period of no growth. It's important to note that this period included the 28 day span of no food.

The time between that 8 gram weight and the 13 gram weight, there were no feed gaps larger than 11 days, and the averaged time between feeds was only 7.5 days, a rather significant increase.

So I say to you: No crud the snakes weren't growing much!

 

[Reptileman81]

You are right, in nature a snake does not eat on a set schedule. Also in nature most snakes die before reaching a year old. They get eaten by birds or other animals, they get parasites, they get hit by cars and they starve to death. As keepers, we are supposed to care for them BETTER than nature.

Better then nature lesson to yourself. No one can care for an animal better then it can care for itself in nature. The reason that many snakes and other animals die before they are a year old in nature is because it is call natural selection. The weak die so the strong can survive. Is it fair no. But it is they way it works. I for one wish that man kind would have the same rules. But no we are allowed to destroy more and more of our natural environment as we just keep breeding and expanding and taking over the planet. Think about it if we did not have war and disease how many people would be on this planet right now. If we were all allowed to live to a rip old age there would be 10s of billions of people on the planet. Then there would be no nature left to even talk about. Not really sure what I was trying to prove here but thought I would put my feelings out on that subject.

Anyways the point is that nothing is better for any animal then the natural environment it came from. Which is why we breed captive bred stock and have cut back alot on the capture and sale of wild animals.

Pretty much what you said made no sense and had nothing to do with the fact that Doc sold me some undersized and unhealthy snakes.

 

[wyldwurm]

First off I dont know where you got this information from. I did not know they were all from a double clutch when I purchased them. I was told after they arrived at my home when I asked what there ages were because I felt they were on the very small side for being 09's in 2010 that he could not give me exact hatch dates. I wanted said dates because A. I felt they were very small and B. because the Viper tracking software I use keeps track of every snakes exact age up to the min. Doc told me he could not provide me with any hatch dates because he did not have exact dates. He simply told me that some were from Jun and Jul and some were from Sept and Oct. This is what was said. No I dont have any emails to back that up sorry. I know what was said about hatch dates. Which is why I put on my records the hatch dates that I did. I guessed at them so that I would have something in my records and so that the software would keep track of some kind of age of the snakes.

As you stated all of what you said is your opinion. None of which is fact. As for me helping my case as I said I can not make it any worse for myself. I already have dozens if not hundreds of people that will not do business with me because of how you people miss represented what has been said this whole thread. Most of you dont know me and none of you have done business with me so you can not judge me or my animals even though that is what has happened here. Some of you dont know Doc and most have not done business with him but yet you are willing to back him up and he has no shred of proof of anything either. He is to good to even put up hatch dates and his fed records on here. Doesnt that sound funny. I know I would provide that info if I was the one on trial. Which I have because this whole thread has been me on trial and not Doc. Which is who this thread is about. He has proved nothing. He has not shown any evidence to disprove my claim. He will not because he has no proof and can not disprove my claim because my claim is the truth.

I'm afraid we can judge you, and people have - based on the things you have said. How can you come here and try to present a case against someone without solid proof? I think that is what people are getting at. You are condemning a man who has had plenty of experience, presenting yourself unprofessionally without anything to back up what you are saying.

Please step back and think. Most people here are not trying to attack you, but you're taking things so personally that it makes it hard to point out mistakes that YOU are making without you jumping down throats. You said yourself, that it is possible for Doc to make mistakes. Isn't that true for you as well?

I am going to email you a study done on Crypto so you may understand it better. I don't believe your animals have it and you will see why once you read That is some good news at least.

None of what I have stated is meant to attack you. If you cannot see that, perhaps it's time to grow a set of...thicker skin (that is humor, btw...meant in good natured fun)

 

[Shiari]

Better then nature lesson to yourself. No one can care for an animal better then it can care for itself in nature. .......


....Pretty much what you said made no sense and had nothing to do with the fact that Doc sold me some undersized and unhealthy snakes.

To the first part, heck yes we care for our animals better than nature, because nature doesn't care. Out of no fault of its own, some animals die for lack of food. Maybe there was a drought, or a fire, or a disease wiped out much of its food source.

The fact is that we can care for certain animals better than they can care for themselves in nature. All you have to do is see a feral suffering from calici, or a puppy with parvo, to know that we can care for them better than they can care for themselves. Because we have good shelter, a steady supply of food, and *medicine*.

Speaking of which, one of my 22 snakes injured itself last night. Is there anything a vet can do? Probably not. Can I really afford to take it the the vet? Let's just say I'm very glad I already went grocery shopping recently. Am I taking it to the vet anyway? Yes. Because I'm a person who cares about the wellbeing of an animal in my care.

 

[Shiari]

Whoops, forgot the rest of my post. To the second part of the quote... hypocrisy! After all, those snakes would have been small and potentially unhealthy if you caught them in the wild right? So their condition was like what would be seen in nature, where according to you they are at their best. So... shouldn't you be rejoicing in your supposedly undersized snakes?

And did you EVER consider that your snakes may have been very small hatchlings? My Nautley was 4 grams when I got him in November of last year, and even with an aggressive feeding schedule, he wasn't 8 grams until January, and 12 grams in march. A breeder with lots and lots of babies can't give the same amount of attention to an individual hatchling that I did, and probably will not have the time to feed carefully but aggressively (frequent, very small meals but none less than 4 days apart) every single "runt" than hatches. Nautley is now over 40 grams I believe....

 

[Southern Wolf]

First... It doesnt matter if the snakes came from a double clutch or the first clucth..... there is nothing wrong with double clutch babies. The only difference is the original clutch got a head start on the feeding and is normally a little bit bigger in size.

 

[Reptileman81]

For the situation with the regurge, you absolutely 100% were feeding that snake too often for the gut flora to recover. With that feeding schedule, you absolutely 100% contributed to its death. And by not taking it to a vet, you will never know if it was something that could have been treated or if untreatable, what the actual cause was.

'Cause you know what? I had a snake that developed a large lump in its middle that made it look like it had perpetually just eaten. You know what it was? A giant abscess that caused my snake to go septic. You never mentioned that the snake in question had large amounts of icky mucus-filled diarrhea. Don't try claiming it now.


For the situation with the snakes not growing well, you are feeding too little overall. I've had times with my own snakes where I had to stretch out the feedings because I was running low on pinks and waiting for my order to arrive. At one feeding every 10 to 14 days, a hatchling does not grow much, if at all. A couple feeds just a few days apart do not make up for the overall large gaps.

In the first feed schedule you posted, you once again show a complete lack of knowledge with regurge protocol by feeding the snake too quickly again after the regurge, and by increasing the prey size too soon. That is why he "made a turn for the worse". And when averaged, there was one meal every 9 days or so, near the "not growing much" point for a feed schedule. But of course, there was that nice month long gap with no feeds, a bunch of 10 and 11 day spans in there as well.

The second one you posted, which included weights, shows an average of food every 9 days for the period of no growth. It's important to note that this period included the 28 day span of no food.

The time between that 8 gram weight and the 13 gram weight, there were no feed gaps larger than 11 days, and the averaged time between feeds was only 7.5 days, a rather significant increase.

So I say to you: No crud the snakes weren't growing much!

You are right I did not know the about a regurg protocol. I have never read anything anywhere that stated if a snake regurges that you should wait a week or more before feeding it again. I will now have this in my practices and husbandry. Not that it matters because I have never had a snake regurg as much as that one. Hell I think that out of the hundreds I have owned I have only had a dozen or so regurges not counting said snake. So yes you are right and I admit it now and have admitted it a few times in this thread that it might of been my fault said snake died. But I will not take responsibility for it getting a lump. It regurged once and then there was a lump like it still had food in it. So maybe the lump was even there before I fed it the first time it regurged.

As for the diarrhea thing I never said it had diarrhea. I am not going to claim it did now because it didnt.

The snake that just will not put on weight and whether I am feeding it enough or not. As I said I feed all of my animals the same schedule. The rest (including the ones that are still alive from Doc's stock and my own and others that I have purchased grow just fine. I have one that I got from Doc that arrived at my house weighting in at 15grams is now about 60grams. So in 6 months he quadrupled in size. All of my snakes show the same kind of weight gain. Except said snake that remains to not grow. Once again another snake from Doc that is not doing well.

So say what you will about my feeding. It works for my collection and half of the snakes I got from Doc. Just not the ones from him that have sense passed and not the one that is still going but not growing. This snake was just a runt. She was very short for her starting weight and is still very short for her weight today.