Bad Guy Matthew Walker of Ohio (WARNING)

[wryder]

Regarding Mathew Walker, [email protected] of Ohio.

I bought an adult female crested gecko for $250 from this person several days ago and its now dead. She never ate as much as I thought she should though she was fairly active. Now he says it's outside of the "3 day garentee" that was promised so he won't offer any full or partial refund.

Healthy Crested Geckos don't die like this. I've kept them for over a decade and have 16 others that remain in perfect health after varying perods of time as we speak. I keep their environment impecable and feed a mix of Repashy and peach and pear baby food. One mistake I did make was not reporting to this person instantly when I had a feeling she wasn't eating well. But, it's clear to me he knew there was an issue. The minute I wrote he shot back with "it's outside of the three days" and basically nothing more, and now all ads posted by the guy are gone and I now notice he didn't even sign his email with his name. The limited info. I have is simply because I paid with paypal.

Here's the bottom line: some people may say he was within his stated policy. I know I would *never* leave someone in this position when I sell a reptile, and I strongly suspect he knew there was an issue with this gecko already. At the very least I really care about my reputation on the web...and the way this guy has chosen to respond to me says he does not care about that for himself. I'm not saying he purposely screwed me. But I *am* saying he sent me a gecko that died in several days and he left me stuck holding the bag, having flushed $250 down the toilet. You can make your own choice about if you'd take the risk of doing any transactions with this person. I know on my part not only won't I do business with him, but with individules online anymore. Enough with this "hide who you are and sell sick animals" crap! This kind of situation kills the market for all of us...and now I'll be forced to buy from well established breeders only. Too often other people are perfectly happy to screw you and steal your money.

 

[wryder]

PS - I'm sending a link to this post to the guy himself. It will be real interesting to how he responds. Just note too, I offered to send proof (pictures, temp readings, anything he wants) of my environment and of the dead animal. So before he posts anything about "3 day garentee" ask yourself if that even really matters? Do I want to do business with a guy who won't refund because the gecko died on day 4 instead of day 3? Not me. Not anymore.

 

[Wolfy-hound]

Well yeah, technically if it's outside the 3 day threshold, he doesn't have to make good on anything. 3 days usually covers shipping stress etc. Since you didn't send him info that the animal wasn't doing well right away, to the seller it could be anything at all that killed the gecko. You said "several days" then said 4. It kind of matters, since "several" could mean a week.

His refusal to talk about it tells me he doesn't seem to be concerned about the animals though. A good seller will at least look into things a bit, especially if it was barely past the 3 day guarentee. I wouldn't exactly expect that he would replace the gecko or refund money, but a bit of concern over an animal dying would at least show that he cares about the critters.

You should always have full informationw hen you are planning on sending off $250 to anyone though. If he'd just taken the money, what info would you have to try to get it back?

Sorry to hear about the gecko dying. I hope your next buying experiance goes perfectly to make up for the awful experiance of this one.

 

[wryder]

The total elapsed time since arrival was 10 days. I disagree that a stated garentee period should even come into play for sellers that really care. With my offer to send detailed info. on my environment I would think that should prove it was nothing on my end. I can also show proof of the other 16 geckos I've had, some all summer, after getting back into reptiles after a brief layoff.

Anyhow thanks for the reply but I'm not looking for judgements from people so much as putting the info. out there so people can decide what they want to do. I see some other posts where the guy had some good recommendations. Buy from him if you want. Just know that there is one guy out here that got an animal from Mr. Walker, that never ate properly but kept it in a perfect environment...and it died on him in within 10 days. I guess if you are okay with a gecko dying in 10 days...take a shot. Me, I'd be more worried about proving the keeper's environment in terms if I'd refund, and judging trustworthiness of the buyer than making sure I keep my money. I guess it depends what you want this hobby to be about.

Consider that some breeders (Dachiu comes to mind) put a two week garentee on their animals. Now let me ask you something. Would you have more confidence in Dachiu or Walker now that you know the difference in policy? That's a question for the reader to ponder. I know the answer for myself.

 

[wryder]

Actually, CORRECTION! I'm looking at today's date and quoting the period. The animal arrived on 10/7, and died the night of 10/14. So it was 7 days.

 

[AaronP]

I disagree that a stated garentee period should even come into play for sellers that really care.

If this is the case you may want to make sure that the person you are buying from has a guarantee that you are comfortable with. Doesn't matter how much the seller "really cares".

 

[AaronP]

I submitted that prematurely.

It doesn't matter how much the seller "really cares". When you agree to someones terms of sale by purchasing the animal from them that is a sealed deal, it isn't wise to complain about someones guarantee when you willingly agreed to it in the first place.

 

[bullies&balls]

still a cheesy practice

If the animal is in good health it wuld not have died in that time PERIOD !! It would have been hard to kill the thing witholding water and food in that time slot if it arrived healthy. You are only as good as your name and if you choose to screw someone over 3 days then you have NOBODY to blame but yourself when your reputation takes a hit.

 

[hhmoore]

One mistake I did make was not reporting to this person instantly when I had a feeling she wasn't eating well.

Yes, and it could be considered a fairly big mistake. Terms are posted for a reason....BUT, in many cases, if a seller is notified that things aren't right, they will extend their terms. You failed to notify him that there was a problem, so how was he supposed to know.

The minute I wrote he shot back with "it's outside of the three days" and basically nothing more, and now all ads posted by the guy are gone and I now notice he didn't even sign his email with his name.

How about sharing the communication with us, so we don't have to rely so strongly on your version of the story. I'm not saying it isn't accurate, but people often get different impression from reading the back and forth between a seller & buyer.

 

[garweft]

I have the emails and will get them together.

What he said is for the most part true, he bought the crested from me and never bothered to update me to anything at all. Nothing about how she arrived or how she was doing...etc. Then over a week later emails that she died and I sold him a sick gecko.

I produced her and had her for the last 3 years. She has never had any problems here and was in prime condition. The only issue she had was a nipped tail from when she was a baby.

Anyway, He never gave me any options in this since he decided that he was too busy to update me to anything. I have since decided to stick to my health guarantee that I offered which had expired. It's unfortunate but it happens. Once she left my hands I have no control over what she is put through.

 

[Paul Kent]

I submitted that prematurely.

It doesn't matter how much the seller "really cares". When you agree to someones terms of sale by purchasing the animal from them that is a sealed deal, it isn't wise to complain about someones guarantee when you willingly agreed to it in the first place.

Pretty cut and dry. I personally would like to have a better guarantee than that but if thats what the agreement was than thats what the buyer has to live with.

 

[garweft]

Here are the last few emails, still need to find the first ones.....


Bill Ryder <[email protected]> Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 6:58 PM
To: [email protected]
Hi,

Unfortunitly I came out to this animal's cage today to find her dead.
Se seemed active but ate very little since she arrived. I'm basically
wirting to find out if you will stand behind this purchase or not.
Obviously I am very disappointed. I have about 16 other crested
geckos I've had since middle of summer with no problem. I'm glad I
had quarenteened this one as obviously she had something going on. I
can send her back to you or provide pictures if you need proof.

I have a bunch other going on in life right now trying to find a job
and not much faith in humanity so I appologize if I'm being short. I
can take picture of my set ups. All my cresteds are getting Repashy
daily and they get missed twice a day. But long story short I just
need to know what you can do for me. If you feel it's been too
long...I have no fight in me. But I can tell you this animal was kept
in the highest standards and the fact she just goes from active to
dead overnight while alll my other crested were fine before she came,
and remain find and eating now...you can be sure something was wrong
with this animal. It's a shame because I was really looking forward
to seeing what her babies would look like.

-Bill
[Quoted text hidden]
--

Thanks!

Sincerely,
Bill Ryder

________________________________________
[email protected] <[email protected]> Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 10:48 PM
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: Bill Ryder <[email protected]>
Yeah it's a liitle past the 3 day guarantee. What happened?
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Ryder <[email protected]>
Sender: [email protected]
[Quoted text hidden]

________________________________________
Bill Ryder <[email protected]> Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 1:18 AM
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
That's my question. I've kept them for years and have a whole bunch. Basically if you want me to be honest...I was sold a sick animal. I guess it was bound to happen. Well , I'd be happier to get something back. I paid $250 and now it just got flushed down the toilet. Think about how you'd feel. You keep an animal the same way as has been sucessful for you forever...and several days after arrival she just keels over?

Let me ask you something: this animal was eating for you? She was eating very little for me...and I did make the mistake instead of just shipping her back...of trying to give it a little time and see if it was a "settling in" thing. But I find it hard to believe that she was eating perfectly for you the way she was when I got her...and now with the final result. The other way aroud I swear to God...you'd be looking at a refund. Like I said I'll send you any proof you want of my setups, the animal, etc. And of you can tell me you think it was something I did...I won't even ask for money. But I do think it'll be real unfair to leave me hanging completely. I'm trying real hard not to accuse you of anything but these animals don't just suddenly die like that. It is a little hard to believe she was absolutely 100% for you with this outcome. She had her own 12x12x30 screen cage here, kept between 65 and 73 degrees constantly, misted twice daily, fed daily. The other 16 are doing perfectly.


Sincerely,
Bill Ryder
Mystic Visions Properties
http://RentBuyRent.com
[Quoted text hidden]

________________________________________
[email protected] <[email protected]> Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 10:06 AM
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: Bill Ryder <[email protected]>
You weren't sold a sick animal. She was just fine here for the last 3 years in a closed collection. I can't take responsibility for what happens after she leaves my care. You never said anything about her having a hard time adjusting. As a matter of fact you never notified me that she arrived or how she was doing at all.

If you would have contacted me letting me know she was having problems I could have tried to help with how she was set up, but as it is their is nothing I can do.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Ryder <[email protected]>
[Quoted text hidden]

________________________________________
Bill Ryder <[email protected]> Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 10:37 AM
To: [email protected]
I didn't *need* help with the setup. I already know what I'm doing.
I offered to send you proof of that...and I think you know it's true
already. You know...I have about a thousand things going on. Why
didn't you write to find out if she arrived if I forgot to write you
back? I think we know why now. You had your money...and that is what
was important.

Okay then. Just be aware that I will post what happened on kingsnake.
I won't say "this is a bad person" because I can't prove that for
100% sure...but I will post the facts and let people reach their own
conclusions. Cresteds don't just die like that.

Have fun with my $250 while my wife and I are looking for jobs and I
look at a dead gecko. I guess this is why many people are so gunshy
about doing business on the web. Is that *really* how you want to
leave this? Again I ask you to think about if the same happened the
other way around. Because it will at some point. And when it
does...you'll have nothing to think about except how you did the same
thing to one guy and can't complain even a little bit.

-Bill

For me this whole thing is more about people being happy than the money.
[Quoted text hidden]
--

Thanks!

Sincerely,
Bill Ryder

________________________________________
Bill Ryder <[email protected]> Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 10:43 AM
To: [email protected]
PS - I'm not asking you to respond unless you change your mind about a
whole or at least partial refund. I see where we're going so far.
Basically you have my money, and I'm going to post what happened on
kingsnake...and if that's what it's going to be...we're done. How'd I
know it would turn out like this when I wrote you. God damn the world
is a sucky, sucky place in this day and age. I swear to God.

-Bill
[Quoted text hidden]
--

Thanks!

Sincerely,
Bill Ryder

________________________________________
Bill Ryder <[email protected]> Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 2:58 PM
To: [email protected]
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1119851&posted=1#post1119851
[Quoted text hidden]
--

Thanks!

Sincerely,
Bill Ryder

 

[Paul Kent]

Have fun with my $250 while my wife and I are looking for jobs and I
look at a dead gecko.

Dont want to make any assumptions but I think if you and your wife are looking for jobs maybe spending $250 on a gecko isnt really a good idea... Just an observation... Not that it really has anything to do with the facts and all..

 

[JudyC]

Over and over again, I've seen "cresteds just don't die like that". And of course, as a general rule, that is true...of most all animals we deal with. BUT, it is also true that in ANY species of animal, sometimes they will simply die for reasons we will never know.

If you only deal with a small number of animals, you may not ever encounter this. But when you deal with (or follow the lives of those who do) hundreds and thousands of animals, you WILL have times when an animal simply dies. Sometimes you might get a little warning if they stop eating or begin acting strangely, but as often as not, they simply pass away.

There is not a shred of proof that the seller is responsible for the death. HE claims she was well cared for and perfectly healthy....YOU claim all your animals are well-cared for, too. Who to believe? I might choose to believe both of you, and also believe that this was simply one of those unfortunate times where no one was at fault.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Gotta go with the majority on this one. TOS were clearly stated...buyer did not have an issue worth notifying the seller of until the animal expired.

TOS were met.

While the seller could, if he so chose, offer a discount on a replacement...he is under no obligation to do so.

While I understand the OP's frustration, this thread should never have been started.


And, incidentally, animals DO just die on occasion. It sucks but it does happen. Some specimens just do not weather the shipping process well.

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

65-73 degrees?? Screen setup?? No reptile will thrive that cool... Am I wrong here; never dealt with gecks...

 

[AaronP]

65-73 degrees?? Screen setup?? No reptile will thrive that cool... Am I wrong here; never dealt with gecks...

Crested Geckos aren't like most Reptiles whom prefer moderate temperatures. Crested geckos thrive in high 60-mid-70s.

 

[carrienkashe]

First: the first email states:
Bill Ryder <[email protected]> Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 6:58 PM
To: [email protected]
I have about 16 other crested geckos I've had since middle of summer with no problem.

To the second email which states:
Bill Ryder <[email protected]> Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 1:18 AM
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
That's my question. I've kept them for years and have a whole bunch.

Which is it? 16 of them since the middle of summer or a whole bunch for years?

Second: It is completely normal for a crested gecko to stop eating for up to 2 weeks while it adjust to it new home so the fact that she was already eating no matter how small was a good sign - not a bad one.

You are outside of the guarantee, whether you think it is a good time frame or not you agreed to it when you made the purchase. I've noticed one thing in your emails that could cause problems - Misting twice a day (what is your high humidity and low humidity?). Too much humidity can cause mold growth that can kill cresties.

 

[martin-bernstein]

]
I didn't *need* help with the setup. I already know what I'm doing.
I offered to send you proof of that...and I think you know it's true
already. You know...I have about a thousand things going on. Why
didn't you write to find out if she arrived if I forgot to write you
back? I think we know why now. You had your money...and that is what
was important...
...Have fun with my $250 while my wife and I are looking for jobs and I
look at a dead gecko. Bill

Bill, you are pretty confrontational in your emails from the very first one you sent after the gecko died. I agree with you that under certain circumstances (and perhaps this one), a seller should take some responsibility for a sick or dead animal after the guarantee period runs out. But if he or she chooses to do so, it will be out of the goodness of their heart, not out of obligation to the terms of sale. How do you expect Matthew Walker to be good to you when you use that kinda tone in your emails? And why would you expect him to know that you have a thousand things going on and that he should write to you? I rarely encounter sellers who do follow-ups- IMO the buyer is expected to contact the seller once the package has arrived and let him or her know that everything is OK, or not OK. You failed to do so. That's on you, not Matthew.

 

[garweft]

I tried to let it go for a day and come at this with a fresh mind, but I can't sleep. I am a little angry because I should not have sold her and never felt right about the deal. She was one of my favorite cresteds and I should have just kept her as a pet instead of trying to clear room to concentrate on colubrids and balls. I want to keep this more professional but can't help it that my feelings about some things are coming into play with my decision and my shortness.

First off, I can't find it but in his first email he lowballed me on the $250 and said she wasn't worth more because she had a nipped tail, was only good for breeding, and he sees them at shows all the time. I should have said no and regret it now. I feel like I sold her out in the name of "making room". And later in the email above he said he never had a good feeling about me, but still wasn't in a hurry to contact me when he said she was having problems adjusting?

Second he never updated me at all on how she was or what was going on, or even that she arrived. For the last 3 years she was kept in a 66qt. Sterilite rack, never misted, and kept in the mid to high 70's in summer and high 60's to mid 70's in winter. So as drastic a change as he said he put her through would easily stress out a female acclimated to the conditions I kept her in. Too much change to fast isn't a good thing and if he would have contacted me earlier we could have figured it out or he could have sent her back.

Third, I honestly think he is lying. He doesn't have a job... but has a real estate signature in his emails. He has had sixteen geckos since summer.... now he apparently is one of the first people to own them in the country (over a decade of experience).

I'm not one to say no to people when they have issues. I usually just hand them a replacement or refund their money. I've replaced things I know I had nothing to do with because it's not really a big deal. But for some reason this feels different then every other time.

Healthy animals don't just die. I know that, but I also know that an animal doesn't need to be sick to die. I have a freezer full of what were healthy mice to prove that. I don't know what happened but I do think it's more than he is saying. She wasn't thin, she was eating well, she had good calcium reserves in her sacs, she hadn't recently laid eggs (+20 days), she wasn't old.

Something about the whole thing just doesn't feel right. And I'm really mad at myself for not going with my instincts in the first place. Maybe I'm wrong in this, either way it's here now and if someone doesn't want to buy from me because of it that's OK.