So lets realistically view the scenario that has played out.
David’s order of the Spider ‘het. Hypo’ male was purchased indirectly, yet directly from Brian. Brian was well aware of that. He had acknowledged that the animal was to be purchased for David, yet put into Chris’ order to get a larger discount, as stated in Chris’ post.
huff747 Post#66 said:
…. David and I regularly exchange emails about our breeding plans and what we have for sale and so on. So I was talking to David about our plans, he says he's thinking of selling a bigger Pied female and I say I think I would like to try and get her from you. We discuss and settle on a price, I believe $3000. At this same time I'm also working on a relatively large purchase from BHB, I don't remember the exact animals involved but I know a Mojave Spider was part of the deal so it wasn't a small order (remember this was a few years back so prices were higher). David said he too had talked to BHB about purchasing a Spider Het Ghost male and Brain had quoted a price to him of I believe at the time $1750.
So I tell David I will call Brian and see how much I could get the Spider Het Ghost male for if I add it to my existing order thinking that I may get a price break due to the size of the existing order. David says great, if you can get it for less than $1750 and I wanted to buy it that he would credit me the $1750 towards the big pied female. So I call Brian (even telling him that it was for David) and he says I can add the spider het ghost male for $1500 so basically it works out for everybody. Brian sells another snake on an order to me, David sells a pied and gets a spider het ghost that he wanted, and I get the big pied female and save $250 over what I would have had to pay for her outright.
Brian ships the order containing the spider het ghost male, I get him in and turn around and ship him right on to David since he was never really for me…..
After receiving the animal, growing it up, and breeding it out; no Spider het Hypo’s. David acknowledges that here…
David Bellis Post#1 said:
I bred the male Spider to two unrelated virgin 100% het Hypo females. One was a 'normal' 100% het Hypo from Mike Wilbanks. The other female is a new co-dom 100% het Hypo that was produced by Chris Huffman. I got a total of 13 eggs from the two females and sold the male to Cliff Edwards prior to the eggs hatching out. All 13 hatched and there were no visual Hypos.
David contacts Brian about this problem, and Brian acknowledges it as an actual problem. Cliff then hatches the animals produced by the animal in question, and yet, still no Hypo’s.
David Bellis Post#1 said:
Fast forward to April and Cliff hatches out his first clutch from this BHB Spider to another unrelated 100% het Hypo. Cliff got five eggs, for a total of 18 sired by this male, and again there were no visual Hypos. April 10th I sent Brian another email, letting him know the status of these eggs hatching out. I raised the possibility of the Spider not being a het after all.
David contacts Brian, and Brian really feels there is a problem with the het. male. Brian again acknowledges that something is possibly wrong and that the het in question may possibly not be a het. after all.
Brian@BHB said:
Of course there is always a chance of something terrible like that happening. I'm not going to lie and say there is no way. It does sound like with those odds something is wrong? Lets talk on the phone and see if there is anything we can do to try to figure this out. I always stand behind my stuff and I will do my best to make it right. Call me anytime this week before Wednesday, I'll be out of town for five days after that on business. Talk soon, Brian
Brian agrees for compensation. Compensation is not provided and contact is almost lost entirely with Brian, as he is not replying or calling back. Time goes by, and after the jist of it, David gets sick of the wait and being left hanging, and makes this post.
After making the post, and notifying Brian, it appears as though Brian didn’t have ‘new information, but was rather irked by the BOI post and refused compensation after. Not exactly respectable. Brian was the one leaving David sitting, not knowing what is coming towards compensation. It’s a problem he caused, not David.
Many possibilities were brought up about how the females are not true hets., or how the two that Cliff used could have retained sperm. Which is the more probable scenario? The male het. not being het, the females not being het, or bad odds on all 4 females? Especially if Brian was willing to compensate, vs. requesting more breedings be done?
I’ve seen others bring up that David deserves nothing more than a 2010 male Spider het Hypo. That leaves David out, what, $1200 that he originally invested into that Spider 'het' male?
None of this is for us to judge. What was shed to light was compensation was offered, and after the BOI thread created; it was seemingly retracted. Whether the animal was het or not is not for us to determine. What we were shown is exactly what I had stated in this paragraph.
It’s been said before in this thread. If a breeder cannot be held accountable if one of their hets do not prove out, small or large, where does that leave the hobby? Where does that leave breeders? What does that make a breeders guarantee? A guarantee is only as good as the breeder/business that makes it. If they’re not willing to uphold it, or handle their problems professionally, and in a timely manner; how good is that guarantee? Where does that leave the breeders image?
After that… I’m at a loss for words….and a little disgusted…
