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Info Ashley Caspillo-SakaraGT4/Sakara *Possible Buyer Beware!*

I hate to say it Ashley but that vet report does nothing to exclude IBD. Some of the symptoms mentioned in the history are associated with IBD and certainly it could have contributed to this animal needing to be put down. Since you have a boa whose necropsy was positive for inclusions and at least one python dead with IBD type issues I would be very cautious and very nervous.

Read Adyra's first post very carefully. This disease can take very different paths to manifest itself, and it seems that boas can be asymptomatic for a long time.

It sucks to be in that position but what else can you do? It is good that you have not seen anything recently but in all honesty you are not out of the woods yet.

I would lock everything down if I were you. Nothing in nothing out and hope for the best.

Good luck!

Adyra, my sympathies. I do not know how I would be if I were in your shoes, it must be very rough.
 
SakaraGT4 said:
i
And as I stated, I am going to try to find a local-ish vet to do some liver biopsies on a couple snakes, at least to start a couple, python and boa alike... I expect for them to not find anything, but I will post that when I get it done... '
Click to expand...
I think that's great and I really hope it turns out to be completely clear.
However I will say if you'd have done all that BEFORE selling/adding snakes, this thread would never had existed.

I just refuse to do that unless it's necessary... If I put down all my babies only to find that there truly was nothing... I would be devastated...
Click to expand...
Yeah that's ridiculous, and I don't blame you.
However I'm worried it IS possibly something and you've now exposed other people's collections based on an assumption everything was ok.
 
If you read... That was the history that I told them...

When I was concerned about my burm it was because she was smearing her face against the glass leaving saliva, which I'm guessing was the "stomatitis", that animal never had mouth rot or anything... Also when I tried to feed her she didn't even look at her food where she would usually try to take your arm off... When she finally lazily wrapped the rabbit she just laid there with it... She slowly poked around at it and then decided not to eat it... She was very weak when I took her into the vet and she was very slow in moving and wanting to right herself, which she DID, but it was very lazily... The vet had her for the weekend, alive, because they couldn't send her off until Monday... He said they kept her warm and over the weekend she was acting better, alert, roaming the bin she was in and acting normal... I was very upset because I had already made the decision to put her down and send her off for pathology... But I still did...
 
amercnwmn said:
I think that's great and I really hope it turns out to be completely clear.
However I will say if you'd have done all that BEFORE selling/adding snakes, this thread would never had existed.
Click to expand...

I hate to say it, but it probably WOULD still exist... Not by your concern... But even if I would have gotten the liver biopsies done before, there are still some ppl that like to make others look bad... I will get it done, but yea... Even if I WOULD have before, I'm sure it still would have been brought up by others anyway...
 
amercnwmn said:
Yeah that's ridiculous, and I don't blame you.
However I'm worried it IS possibly something and you've now exposed other people's collections based on an assumption everything was ok.
Click to expand...

I would not put down asymptomatic animals either.

In Ashley's defense she has conflicting vet reports? So that with some hoping can lead one to believe all is ok even if it is not:shrug01:

And for what it is worth, none of my snakes exhibit a "writing" reflex either, no matter how many times I leave pens in their enclosures, so I am not sure how that fits into an IBD diagnosis or not?:rolleyes:

Sorry, couldn't resist. Not good in something that is supposed to be professional correspondence...:NoNo:
 
Drew Zaun said:
I hate to say it Ashley but that vet report does nothing to exclude IBD. Some of the symptoms mentioned in the history are associated with IBD and certainly it could have contributed to this animal needing to be put down. Since you have a boa whose necropsy was positive for inclusions and at least one python dead with IBD type issues I would be very cautious and very nervous.

Read Adyra's first post very carefully. This disease can take very different paths to manifest itself, and it seems that boas can be asymptomatic for a long time.
Click to expand...

Wondered about that as well..

I know Adrya has been in contact w/ Dr. Jacobson and has spoken to him about her collection's problems and any similarities.
 
You're right the thread probably still would have come up, but not because people are out to get you. A negative could still be a positive. IBD is notoriously hard to diagnose in live animals if they aren't showing obvious symptoms. Sometimes even if they are, they don't test positive for it that's why this disease is so dangerous and worrisome to breeders. Sometimes even animals that people are SURE died from IBD don't show the inclusion bodies. I'd say even if the tests come back negative a warning should still be let out to your potential buyers and the waiting period you stated earlier should still come into effect. Maybe not one that blatantly says hey these guys could have IBD, but maybe a reminder to quarantine? I just know I'd be upset if someone had an incident or two of possible IBD deaths and I wasn't told about it...
 
hate to say it, but it probably WOULD still exist... Not by your concern... But even if I would have gotten the liver biopsies done before, there are still some ppl that like to make others look bad... I will get it done, but yea... Even if I WOULD have before, I'm sure it still would have been brought up by others anyway...
Click to expand...

Maybe the thread would exist, but your supply of a few lab tests clearing the snakes, a year or more of complete lockdown, and their claims would have virtually NO validity. Not to mention you, and your buyers would have almost complete peace of mind, your credibility would be MUCH higher, and your buyers would not be currently worried about whether their collections are exposed to a potentially lethal, incurable disease.


Right now the claims show you knowingly were acquiring/selling/donating snakes AFTER having those results. Which is really worse??
 
I understand... and yes, I believe that is a good idea... If I still lived in Fla I would offer that Dr. Jacobson could do the tests on my snakes... But I don't know if that is possible at all...
 
Sounds like your burm was acting much the same way my boa was before she died.

Before my initial boa died of IBD I took her out of her enclosure to check her out. This was just a few hours before she died. She was very lethargic, weak, and didn't even struggle when I had a hold of her head to look at her. She had severe thick and runny mucous in her mouth and she had teeth falling out. She paced her enclosure in a panic because she was struggling to breathe due to the sudden pneumonia. Just a few days before she was fine and I didn't notice anything at all.

Also on another note over time her abdominal section developed a "bloated" appearance that made her look more like she was fat than anything else. I just thought because feeding her every 2 weeks was becoming too much so I had backed it off to every 3 weeks in hopes to have her lose some "weight." But since inclusion bodies showed up in the intestinal tissue that would explain why she was bloated and often constipated. Her intestinal tract was also quite inflammed... so IBD was destroying her intestinal tract and lungs.
 
Dr. Jacobson is in no position right now to receive any snakes for testing because him and his graduate student are up to their eyeballs in tissue samples and testing right now, but they will still accept samples sent to them.

They currently have a blood test that his graduate student recently developed to scan for IBD and it is $100. It is not a 100% IBD detectable test, but it is a start. If nothing is found there, then other tests need to be performed.

You have to have your local vet collect the blood sample(s) and tissue sample(s) and have them send the samples off to Dr. Jacobson personally.
 
I believe Adrya had mentioned you can submit blood tests to him for approx. $100, but you'll have to have a vet collect.
It's going to be pricey, and no one says it has to be done all right away, but I would have my snakes screened thoroughly before I reopened my collection any time in the next 2 years.
 
The reason they can't accept snakes right now is because it takes a lot of time for them to necropsy, collect tissues and then have the tissues aside to be tested the next day. If they have a lot to do, then necropsying an entire snake takes up a large chunk of a single day.
 
I'm sorry about your babies Adrya...

I hope this isn't used against me in the other thread -___- .... But I'm more than willing to pay $100 for the blood test... At least to start... If I could send him a live snake to test, I would... But if he can't accept one then that is understandable with the amount of work he has
 
Something also to consider is that we all need to be very careful about our tones in threads like these, that is unless we know for sure that someone is aware of a positive infection and hides it and actively spreads it. This is not the case here IMO.

But the biggest reason to remain civil and supporting is that so much is NOT KNOWN, so we need to encourage people who have verified cases to step up and give as much detail as possible. I am sure Adrya is not typing her story for free, so to speak. It has to hurt but the information needs to be out there. Not just for Ashley's sake but for all of us who keep animals that could become affected.

There is always a chance of paralysis by analysis but I do think the more information put forth the better.
 
I was going to send him some of my snakes for him to keep and research from but he didn't have the funds or space for housing and feedng.

Email him. He gets back to you within a day.



Thanks for the condolences, folks.
 
I will email him... If he can, I will send him at least one to start... I know I can't really help with housing since I'm not in Fla, but I could at least provide something for feeding and such...
 
Thanks, Drew.

I was most devastated by this when I first found out about it and for several months after. For those of you who use RTB.net, that was the reason I had disappeared without a word, when I used to be a very frequent poster. I was mentally numb from it all and I was so incredibly hard on myself for letting something like that get into my collection. I always had the goal and mindset that I would be so careful to never let anything like that happen. I thought I had been careful enough, but apparently you can never be too careful. I'm still hard on myself now but I'm better than I was. It doesn't kill me now to tell you all about this. I think now that whatever happens in my collection from here on out, happens. There isn't anything that I can do about it except to just keep on with my strict protocols within the reptile room to eliminate any contamination between animals as much as possible, even if every one of them is infected. I know that eventually I will lose them all and shedding anymore tears isn't going to help anything.

Basically, quarantine works for everything BUT IBD... so I would say it's best to get new arrivals tested and biopsied while they are in quarantine. And even after testing, keep them in quarantine for at least 6 months or more. With boas, quarantine should probably be at least a year. And at that rate you can't have more than just a few in quarantine at a time. It's just not worth the risk to not be careful enough.
 
Aha! it IS Dr. Jacobson, I told Courtney another doctor. Dr. Jacobson holds "seminars" and such about reptiles, he's BRILLIANT. AND, his office is ~1 mile from my house. I'll see if I can find when he's having another seminar to pick his brain about all of this.
 
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