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Flipping....the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Flipping right or wrong?

  • It is ok for anyone to sell animals they didn't produce and who cares where it came from.

    Votes: 12 11.9%

  • Flipping is ok when the info is disclosed on where the animals came from.

    Votes: 68 67.3%

  • Flipping should be left to actual stores and legit resellers.

    Votes: 21 20.8%
  • Total voters
    101
chris allen

chris allen

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I'd like to see what some others think about this. I'm not talking about legit resellers or stores, well maybe a bit. I'm talking about the people that act like breeders or hone in on a specific market, and buy animals and resell them...often times trying to pass them off as their own.

I ask your opinion, because it seems to me that now more than ever, many people are choosing to do things the easy way and looking to make a dollar, instead of making a high quality animal.

This was really brought to my attention a week ago at a show I did. I had many people asking if I produced the dragons I was selling. Everything I had on the table I produced. About half way through the day the guy next to me, says...isn't that annoying and where do all these people think they come from? I explained to him how it was getting very common that with the dragons it is easier and cheaper for people to buy and flip, rather than produce their own stock. Also, its easy for people to resell something that appears nicer than what they would have been able to produce on their own. This is fine and dandy if people know where the dragons are coming from.

I had a person that bought a dragon from me, and also had bought one from somone else that was not producing the dragons they were selling. I told him it was a really nice dragon, asked who produced it and he said he got it from the reseller and laughed how he didn't know where it actually come from, but probably one of the bigger breeders.

Now, I have thought about adding specific animals to my collection, and thought of reselling some while in the process. My logic being, buy a group, pick and choose what I want to keep, resell the others and maybe reselling the others will cover the initial cost so the animals I choose to keep really didn't cost anything. I have done this a small handful of times before with dragons, and never passed anything off as my own, but still......

Should the flipping be left to the actual stores and big resellers? Or, do you think its ok for someone to make a quick buck on something they didn't produce? Is there even a difference?
 
I'm not a seller but I don't see anything wrong with flipping if the one doing so gives high quality care to the critters and does not lie and say that the critters are produced by him. Some people do have both marketing skills and critter producing skills, but some excel at one or the other. It might be a blessing to someone's family if he loved raising critters but was a terrible clueless businessman, to have a nice seller willing to give him fair price and then the seller would make a little bit doing the actual selling.

I know some people take in reptiles, give them wonderful care, and then find them a home but they do charge a little something. They are not in it for money, but they do cover part of their costs.

That being said, if I was in the market for a bearded dragon I'd probably come direct to you, Chris :)
 
Chris,

You make a very valid point, one very well worth addressing, and one that I agree with 100%, although I highly doubt that anything will ever change. This entire business has changed over the past several years, (in morals and general business ethics). For the most part, as very unfortunate as it is, this business has become all about the all mighty dollar for many, and it is for this reason that the value on alot of animals have continued to fall and will continue to do so.

I know that somewhere in the grand scheme of things, flippers may or may not be an intrigal part of this indusdtry and are probably here to stay, but one thing I dont agree with is when they pass them off as their own. I will not mention any names, but I know several flippers, some friends, some that I have just gotten to know from setting up at shows, that practice this. Friend or not, it still burns me everytime I am set up next to one, and watch someone come over and dump a ton of animals for a cheap price, and then to later hear the (flipper) explaining to a potential buyer how it is of his own stock. AND....if that isnt bad enough, the sometimes lengthy discussion of its genetics and background and all kinds of stuff. LIES....LIES....LIES

Something else just as disturbing. Many breeders, (none that will probably admit), including some larger names in the business, have also turned to this practice. Now, in saying that, I know there is always a small percentage of a breeder making a purchase, and in order to get the animals he wants, he may have to buy a package of other animals he does not want. Therefore leaving him a few animals left to resell. I do not consider this flipping.

So, to answer your question. I dont think its ok for someone to just make a quick buck, if it sacrifices the quality of the animals or if it means you have to lie to an unsuspected customer to make the sale. BUT, in many cases this is what this business has become. Money....Greed....Politics.

To all of the respectable breeders out there that are still practicing a higher standard of ethics, producing quality animals for future investments, and holding themselves accountable an trying to preserve this industry for those of us who still love it and enjoy it, there is a small group of us that appreciate it and are trying to follow in your footsteps, and lead by your example.
 
To the OP, how do you define a flipper? You stated there are "legit resellers". What is the difference between a legit reseller and a flipper? What makes them legit? How is buying a group of animals with the intent of re-selling those you didn't want different from being a flipper? I am only curious because the term flipper seems to be very subjective, making your poll difficult to answer.
 
I think as long as the animal is the same as described there isn't a problem. If the animal is a "het" and they didn't produce it I wouldn't personally buy it from them unless it came with visual and signed paperwork from a notable breeder, but it's up to the buyer to make that judgment.

In my opinion there is no difference in a "flipper" and a "reseller / store" besides the size.
 
Well, i would consider it flipping....to an extent. I was asking for others interpretations of it. Me personally, i have no issues with someone trying to make a buck on flipping/reselling. Its part of the hobby and industry. It bothers me though when i see people acting like a breeder when they are not. It bothers me when a breeder is not given credit, or the source of the animal is not disclosed properly.
bsharrah said:
To the OP, how do you define a flipper? You stated there are "legit resellers". What is the difference between a legit reseller and a flipper? What makes them legit? How is buying a group of animals with the intent of re-selling those you didn't want different from being a flipper? I am only curious because the term flipper seems to be very subjective, making your poll difficult to answer.
Click to expand...
 
Also, i asked if there was a difference. Im not so sure though, but when i think of a flipper i think of someone who doesn't really disclose what they are doing. When i think of a reseller, i think of a known business or person that routinely buys and resells.
bsharrah said:
To the OP, how do you define a flipper? You stated there are "legit resellers". What is the difference between a legit reseller and a flipper? What makes them legit? How is buying a group of animals with the intent of re-selling those you didn't want different from being a flipper? I am only curious because the term flipper seems to be very subjective, making your poll difficult to answer.
Click to expand...
 
mikeyt said:
one thing I dont agree with is when they pass them off as their own. I will not mention any names, but I know several flippers, some friends, some that I have just gotten to know from setting up at shows, that practice this. Friend or not, it still burns me everytime I am set up next to one, and watch someone come over and dump a ton of animals for a cheap price, and then to later hear the (flipper) explaining to a potential buyer how it is of his own stock. AND....if that isnt bad enough, the sometimes lengthy discussion of its genetics and background and all kinds of stuff. LIES....LIES....LIES
Click to expand...

This is a whole nother kettle of fish, but I personally would not have anyone as a friend that did this. If they'd lie to someone else, they'd lie to me, and who needs that? Besides which it is just wrong to lie that way to make a sale.
 
Here's a scenario. Guy has red bearded dragons at a show. Sells them as red baby dragons. If they were originally purchased from let's say breeder joe shmoe, should this guy sell them as baby red dragons produced by joe shmoe, or no? Is it up to the buyer to ask that question....who produced the red beardeds? The post was started because it was a bit strange how many people asked me that very question.
 
Your scenario is more complicated than it seems. Some customers do not care who produced their animal, they go to shows to find a pet reptile. All they want is an attractive well priced animal.
On the other hand, some customers care, and if someone who, let's say, like yourself, produces outstanding dragons, a red dragon on the table might be assumed to be your production.

This almost seems like a semi-BOI question, except there are no specific facts or claims of damage.

Clearly, lying about who produced a critter is wrong.
Saying nothing and letting a customer assume it is your production may be wrong as well but a lot depends on individual circumstance.

Is there an individual circumstance that bugged you?
 
Lol, no not at all. Honestly i try to just worry about myself, but a few things got me thinking and thought i would ask for others opinions. Also the fact that i have been thinking about buying some animals....keeping some...and selling the others myself i was curious what people really thought.
 
I definitely feel there's a big difference between a lot of so-called "flippers."

It is one thing to acquire an animal(s) and then later, for whatever reason (focus on other projects, really need the money, etc.), you decide to sell it. As long as you are upfront with the animal's origins, and generally represent it accurately, I see nothing wrong with this practice (have done it myself a few times, and I'm not ashamed).

Then there's resellers who will pretty much buy a number of animals at a relatively low cost for the intended purposes of re-selling for profit. Again, as long as the animals are healthy, and represented accurately, why not? Simply business in my book. I do feel that a little quarantine period is a good idea, at least to see which animal eats, who doesn't, etc.

IMHO, a TRUE flipper is someone who combs the internet and expos for the absolute lowest deals he can get, haggles and low-balls every chance he gets, and then turns around and sells those animals to make a quick buck. No quarantine, no feeding to see if it even eats or not, doesn't care about parasites, etc...nada.

There's definitely a lot of folks out there who think if you're selling it, and you didn't produce it, you're a flipper. Period. It's either black or white with them. People don't realize how many guys out there flip. IMHO, everyone 'flips" at some point, even though many may not want to admit it. Sometimes you lose interest in a project, and something unexpected in your life happens, and you need some extra $$. In many cases, that means you gotta move some animals fast.

Anyway, that's my $.02. By some's definition, I suppose I'm a flipper. But every animal I've sold was an animal I've had in my collection for at least 2 months, and I don't sell animals that don't eat, or are unhealthy, and I always am truthful on when and who I got an animal from. A true "flipper" completely disregards those factors. They only care about the quick buck they're trying to make.
 
Choice one is poorly worded. I voted for it, but wanted to clarify. I have zero problems with people buying for the sole purpose as to resell. You don't have to produce the animal directly in order to sell it. I do have a problem with mis-representation by someone who resells, claiming they produced or stating false information as to origin. If you don't know the origin, then simply state as such.
 
Flipping

Me personally, i love to flip, but i follow a code. I produce my own animals however i am a growing business and unfortunately i just cant keep up. I buy wholesale, quarantine all animals, feed at least three times and almost always one shed. On top of this just as a standard operation all animals are treated for mites and tics regularly and before introduction to population so i can guarantee all of my animals for 30 days no questions asked.
 
The BIGGEST problem with flipping IMO is how it affects the animal, more stress from shipping and a much bigger chance for getting a sick or diseased animal.
If both of these are appropriately addressed and the seller is honest I don't have a big problem with it.
 
I saw a beautiful red adult female crested gecko at Petco this week. I was sooo tempted to buy and resell her. But what if she was sick? And I'd be almost embarrassed to tell a prospective buyer where I got her...:shrug01:
 
moonrisegeckos said:
I saw a beautiful red adult female crested gecko at Petco this week. I was sooo tempted to buy and resell her. But what if she was sick? And I'd be almost embarrassed to tell a prospective buyer where I got her...:shrug01:
Click to expand...

I have a local pet store here in Hanover that I sell snakes too...and they went over to PetCo (a mile away) and purchased several of their $15 half dead geckos to resell at their own store. Got quite a kick out of it. :rofl:

They aren't willing to pay my prices for geckos and they aren't willing to buy in bulk to get better pricing. Their loss. :shrug01:
 
There is a lady that stops by the petco that I work at on her way to shows and she usually buys one of the cresteds if we have anything that looks nice. I assume she stops at all of them on her way through. She told us she was selling them at a show...
 
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