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Info Ashley Caspillo-SakaraGT4/Sakara *Possible Buyer Beware!*

to kinda play devils advocate, that isnt necessarily an "odd" position for a snake to lay in. however, that being said, with history of ibd, i would definately be overly concerned seeing my animal like that. handling is where you really get a good idea of neurological induced ibd. also, has that snake eaten or been interested in food lately ??
 
temperature can also play a role in odd postioning and neuro behavior. again, this isnt just a random animal, this is from an environment where ibd has been diagnosed. so its definately high up on the differential and probable diagnosis scale
 
reticguy76 said:
temperature can also play a role in odd postioning and neuro behavior. again, this isnt just a random animal, this is from an environment where ibd has been diagnosed. so its definately high up on the differential and probable diagnosis scale
Click to expand...

And it was also treated for mites with chemicals... like I said before.
 
I do not have fedex certification... How can I get him to Dr. Jacobson? I can drive to Kansas City, or another state to have biopsies done and those sent to him?
Also I still have received no further word from Ashley about the refund. I was asking her to arrange having these snakes shipped back to her - but can I trust her to have them tested properly and report the results honestly? I should probably just stick with the refund and have the snakes tested myself.

Reticguy - that one and his sister have stayed in the same Q-tine room they were in since they arrived. I didn't want to contaminate another house, and so I bunkered down and novalsaaned until my hands got eczma. They are in the same room as other snakes in Qtine, and every snake in Qtine when they arrived is still there too.... By the time I learned about Ashley's IBD her snakes had been housed in my Q-tine room for about a week. I have been using different utensils between rooms, novalsaaning between each feeder, everything, but I didn't know he had mites until they showed up in my main room so that seems to have been pointless.
 
Oh and I agree about chemicals Ray. I just... was thinking, "if this is a reaction to mite treatment, where are the twitches or convulsions..." I saw what looked to me like a classic IBD pose and was very very scared. But hey, if it was a basically mild reaction to chemicals then I will hydrate him, bathe him, and be all the happier for it NOT to be IBD!!!
 
Does he do this on a consistent or semi-consistent basis? Is he "weird" or "not right" in any other way? Getting him to a vet if you are suspicious is the first course of action, even if they aren't testing for the IBD, yet. They can at least evaluate everything done so far as husbandry (like temperatures) or mite treatment (chemical exposure) to make sure that isn't what's causing the problem and then move on to the next possibility, which would be IBD.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think you have to be certified to ship through Fed Ex?

One of the vet's locally can do exams/blood work..There's a lab in Little Rock they send the samples to test for OPMV, I know. I don't know if they test for IBD, but I would imagine so.

You can call the local vets and tell them what's going on (mites, treatments, reactions & odd behavior as well as possible exposure) and see if they will see your little guy today, and ask if they have a way to test for IBD.


..the tissues CAN also be sent to Dr. J after you contact him if needed.

The issue right now is going to be the holidays/weekend approaching. I don't know if the vet will be open Friday.
 
i am not a herp vet, but ive been in veterinary medicine now for close to 15 years and have owned reptiles a long time now, i have never seen or heard of a true diagnosis of mites causing neurological issue. i have seen mites as one of the rule-out or differential diagnosis in a neurological snake. now, that being said, chemicals that are being used to treat a mite infestation, i have seen cause neurological issues, but usually resolve with time (assuming the keeper recognizes the signs and gets to a vet fairly soon). but i have never seen a legal medical record stating as a single diagnosis "mites or mite infestation"
where im going with this, is that the three things that are generally resposnible for causing continued neurological issues in snakes, temperature (usually too hot in its microenvironment, chemicals (either cleaning or treating for parasites), and ibd.

i would assume that as a keeper, your temps are probably correct. i would say, that chemicals could be a part in it or be causing it, and/or ibd. if its chemicals, it should hopefully stop acting neuro once chemicals are stopped. if it continues and/or gets worse, ibd is highly highly suspect.

all of this is, or course, based on if that snake is actually neurologic and not just laying that way for a period of time

a video, and some handling would definately be beneficial
 
Ok now I love the sound of that plan. I know it's close to Christmas but I will see when I can get an appt. with my local herp/exotics vet to take a look at him. I would really appreciate someone with REAL knowledge to rule out or diagnose the normal stuff so I'm not tearing out my hair wondering which of 10 things it could be. THANK YOU guys!

P.S. At the same apt I will discuss further testing in fututre, like sending blood tests to Dr. Jacobson in January, no matter the outcome of her exam.

Anyway thank you again so much.
 
any yes, a vet will definately put down that chemical exposure or temps could be potentials. however, as soon as ibd is mentioned as being confirmed in the environment this snake orginated from, that will (or should) IMMEDIATELY jump to the top of the diagnosis list
 
by the way, dont know how aggressive you wanna get at this time, but blood samples can be obtained and sent out. also, if your herp vet is comfortable doing a liver biopsy, it will just be some light sedation and probably and ultrasound (most vets now days have at least a little cheapy one to see vital organs and for quick diagnosis of fluid in chest, bladder stones, etc)
 
Make sure when making the vet. appointment you tell them that there is a chance the animal has IBD. Just like when a dog is suspected of Parvo, they take special precautions to bring those types of animals into the building.
 
Ok and if this behavior happens again I will remember: video, not pics. Does it help if I just tell you he was REALLY still while his head was upside down, and then when he moved he moved really slow, almost with half-movements? Does that mean anything at all as far as chemical vs IBD?
 
reticguy76 said:
i am not a herp vet, but ive been in veterinary medicine now for close to 15 years and have owned reptiles a long time now, i have never seen or heard of a true diagnosis of mites causing neurological issue. i have seen mites as one of the rule-out or differential diagnosis in a neurological snake. now, that being said, chemicals that are being used to treat a mite infestation, i have seen cause neurological issues, but usually resolve with time (assuming the keeper recognizes the signs and gets to a vet fairly soon). but i have never seen a legal medical record stating as a single diagnosis "mites or mite infestation"
where im going with this, is that the three things that are generally resposnible for causing continued neurological issues in snakes, temperature (usually too hot in its microenvironment, chemicals (either cleaning or treating for parasites), and ibd.

i would assume that as a keeper, your temps are probably correct. i would say, that chemicals could be a part in it or be causing it, and/or ibd. if its chemicals, it should hopefully stop acting neuro once chemicals are stopped. if it continues and/or gets worse, ibd is highly highly suspect.

all of this is, or course, based on if that snake is actually neurologic and not just laying that way for a period of time

a video, and some handling would definately be beneficial
Click to expand...


Not to undermine your 15 years of vet experience, but NO ONE said anything about Mites causing the symptoms. It was mentioned that Elizabeth has already had a Corn snake show neuro symptoms from treating for the mites using CHEMICALS.

However, if that was the case, it would have popped up shortly after treatment, not several days. Not ruling it out as a possibility, however.

A soak isn't going to hurt, however I would definitely advise a vet and close monitoring and I would remove that snake from the room if it is anywhere near any others, even if I had to stick it in a bathroom.
 
go to youtube and type in boa with ibd. there is a video of someone handling a boa with ibd (or at least what ibd looks like) i dont know how they diagnosed it with ibd or anything, but basically, ibd looks like that and gets worse, not better, unlike similar type symptoms with chemicals and temperature, that can be corrected.

i had a snake acting neuro like that a few years back, i didnt know what the hell was wrong, i realized i was using too concentrated cleaning agents. once i diluted it more and left him out of his cage longer while the fumes evaporated, never had anymore problems.
 
no no, courtney, i was saying that in general, i have heard and seen many people in general (not necessarily particular to this thread), that their snakes had mites and thats why it became neuro and died. just stating generally
 
i know there is thought that mites can potentially cause neuro type sysmptoms due to the potential of anemia and other potential toxemia issues, but that has yet to be proven also.
my apologies if i made it seem like this thread was the source of my saying that
 
;) Gotcha..
The IBD video helps somewhat, but as you know, every death involving IBD is different, so someone's snake that dies of IBD may or may not show CNS or even if it does, it may not be severe. May just be little subtle signs, or full blown, or nothing at all.
 
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