sporty_live
Member
Just recently made the decision to bring Bearded Dragons and other reptiles back into my home. Had a nice breeding group up until 2007 and got rid of everything prior to my daughter being born. Felt we didnt want the added stress and attention a newborn needs to take away from the animals. Throwing this info out there as it shows I am not a novice to keeping bearded dragons.
I have over the past several months picked up a number of bearded dragons with the intention of breeding on a small scale. Thank you to everyone I have communicated with, the dragons and advice have been much appreciated.
However, I did want to bring to light what is the worst situation of bad animal health/bad customer service I have encountered. As the emails below show, I tried to resolve this directly without bringing it to the BOI. Continued lack of responsibility on the part of Mythical Dragonz, I felt this needed brought out in case someone else was put in the same situation.
Purchased a dragon from Mythical Dragonz in November. Called for Steven as the ad had him listed as point of contact and ended up speaking to Nichole, who answered, for an hour. Spoke with Nichole on another occassion during this mess, have not yet spoken directly to Steven. Take that how you will.
In my ongoing correspondence with Steven/Nichole, I kept receiving texted responses instead of emails. I continued responding via email so several of my emails run back to back. However, I did make a point to restate or respond directly to statements made in the text correspondence.
Basically, received an adult bearded dragon on 12/7/10, when the high temp was only 22 degrees. Dragon had some fluid coming from its nose, was lethargic and slow to eat. Bowel movement was beyond foul and stunk up the entire house when her cage was opened. Vet visit scheduled, time off work requested. Turns out dragon had heavy parasite infestation and respiratory infection, possible pneumonia.
The email chain below tells the whole story. I would be more than happy to answer any questions regarding this matter, either by posting or PM. At this point I have decided to post the facts here rather than to try and continue to correspond and resolve the situation amicably. Being told I was the one who chose the shipment date was the last straw. Calling me a liar when she is the one who sent without first askingme is beyond belief.
Good luck to anyone in dealing with this person(s?) in the future. You have been warned!
Michael Livengood
RE: Adult Red/Orange FemaleMonday, December 27, 2010 4:47 PM
From: "Mike Livengood" <[email protected]>View contact detailsTo: "STeven Walker" <[email protected]>Message contains attachments5 Files (12 MB) | Download All2-27-10 039.JPG2-27-10 040.JPG2-27-10 042.JPG2-27-10 043.JPG2-27-10 050.JPGNichole and Steven,
As I stated I would, I have attached the vet bills along with a pic of her cage to this email. Please note I am home sick today and took them with my camera instead of scanning them in.
Let me start my response by saying you clearly do not remember how things progressed regarding shipment of this animal. You were to originally send out 12/1/10 but contacted me as there was a snowstorm and you were unable to get her out. My response was that I was in no hurry, the health of the dragon was more important to me than receiving her quickly. DO NOT try to imply that I am the one that chose the date of shipment. I was notified of the shipment from UPS via email on 12/6/10. Mind you the temp that day was a high of 19 degrees/low of 7. On 12/7/10, the high was 22/low was 10. You are INSANE to suggest that I am the one that pushed for her to be shipped. That was 110% your call as I wasnt even aware she had been shipped until I received the UPS shipment notification that evening. As other breeders I purchased from during the same timeframe can attest, I have told them to please wait until warmer temperatures before shipping. Several STILL havent sent them and I am perfectly fine with that. Stating I chose the shipment date is an OUTRIGHT LIE!
I contacted you on the 11th when my wife called and said she had arrived. I told you at that time she was icy and the heatpack was barely warm. The description of your guarantee below is completely bogus. It seems suspiciously like it was written and geared toward this exact scenario. Might help if you had a website detailing your guarantees. Strange it seems every other reputable breeder has one. Also seems strange all your old listings are no longer available on Fauna for reference.
I also like the way you then try to wrap up this last email trying to show concern. What "supplies" could you even consider sending me that would make a difference at this point? I went to a vet for the exam and am administering meds based on her direction. Not sure why I would have ANY faith in anything from you at this point.
At this point, I'm done trying to reach a resolution with you. You have outright lied at the suggestion that it was my call to ship the animal. You have blamed faulty heat packs. You have suggested it was my setup when every other animal I have received in the past few months is 100% healthy. You have done basically everything you could to try and put this back on someone other than yourself. This has been the only negative experience I have had from any online reptile purchase but it sure was a doozy. Pathetic.
--- On Mon, 12/27/10, STeven Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
From: STeven Walker <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Adult Red/Orange Female
To: [email protected]
Date: Monday, December 27, 2010, 3:47 PM
Mike,
How is Akira doing? I am still awaiting this "Vet Bill" you told me would be sent today. I also never received any answers to my questions on your set up. I need to know how big the tank is, what substrate she is on, along with the type of lighting and temperatures. I do want you to review our Guarantees because you do need to realize when you contacted me about this problem there where no Guarantees on the dragon. I am not trying to sound like I don't care here but you did not notify me of any possible problems until December 11th. I gave you advice on your concerns for the dragon and you chose to instead go to a vet. I did not hear from you again until December 21st. You need to understand that I have no control over how you care for the dragon once it is out of my care. You complained of a possible issue with the heat packs so I took the time and contacted the company that makes the Heat Packs. But you also need to realize that you choose the date to ship her and I made you aware of the temperatures. I do not Guarantee anything under 32 Degrees and it was below that in your area.
- Satisfaction Guarantee - If you are not satisfied for any reason with the dragon you received you must contact us the same day the dragon arrived. You will be required to send the dragon back at your cost for a refund or a replacement dragon of equal value. Shipping Charges are non refundable.
- Health Guarantee - All of our Dragons are sold with a 48 hour health guarantee if for some reason there is any issue within the first 48 hours immediately contact us. We will need a detailed description of what is going on and your set up including the size of the tank, substrate, lighting, temperatures, and the food you are feeding your Dragon.
- Live Arrival - If for some reason your dragon arrived deceased please contact us immediately we will require picture proof and possibly the return of the dragons body. We will offer either a refund minus shipping charges or a replacement dragon of equal value.
- Cold Weather - Winter Temperatures do effect our Guarantees. If you choose to have a dragon shipping and it is below 32 degrees the Guarantees above are void. There is a risk that in temperatures under 32 degrees heat packs will fail. We ship based on weather but many times we are asked to ship dragons regardless of temperatures.
- Shipping - We can not be held responsible for any issues with the shipping service. If a package is lost or delayed we will do our best to assist you with this and work with the shipping company to find out where it is and get it to you as quick as possible. Shipping companies do not insure live animals.
Please get back to me as soon as possible. I would be more than happy to send you some supplies to assist in her recovery. I am trying to figure out how she got sick in your care, did you soak her right after you got her? Make sure you send me the information on the set up so I can help you figure this problem out. I also need your shipping address.
Thank you,
Steven Walker
RE: Adult Red/Orange FemaleThursday, December 23, 2010 9:51 PM
From: "STeven Walker" <[email protected]>Add sender to ContactsTo: "Mike Livengood" <[email protected]>
Parasites didnt happen in my care if she has any. Maybe you should send me a description of your set up so i can review it. No reptile in our care has any parasitic issues or illness. stop pointing your finger at me i dont think that is hard to do. Dragons also can get parasite overloads when stressed and shipping is STRESSFUL all dragons i get in are wormed right away and kept away from the rest 2 weeks later i run a fecal and make sure they are healthy before they go in the main reptile room. I have one of the best microscopes available along with float smear and stain kits i dont fool around with the health of our dragons. I will be more than happy to send you some worming supplies if you resend your address. And i am not offering that in an insulting way. I tried calling several times i hate emailing people.
-original message-
Subject: RE: Adult Red/Orange Female
From: Mike Livengood <[email protected]>
Date: 12/23/2010 9:11 PM
Steven,
I politely request that any future correspondence you have with me is done via email. You continue sending large texts that are broken up into multiple groups because of the size of the text. I am not on a payment plan for texts so you are costing me additional money by not simply replying via email. I am not sure why you are reading my emails but responding only by text anyway?
I will send you scans of what I was given from the vet when I go back to work on Monday as I do not have a scanner available at home.
Your last text stated I should have approached you in a professional manner. I believe every bit of my correspondence has been professional. If you read my first email it details the condition of the dragon at the time it was received. If my correspondence with you grows more pointed over the course of several emails it is simply in response to the negative comments I am receiving from you.
You continue to state the failure of the heat pack isnt your fault. I understand that once the dragon leaves your possession it is out of your control how the animal is handled. However, you yourself have stated you have contacted the company you purchased the heat packs from as they were faulty. YOU as a business have a responsibility to ME as a customer. If you received faulty packaging that subsequently failed and caused issues with an animal, that is for YOU to take up with that company. Whatever resolution you come to on that matter is YOUR business. MY concern is the health of this animal. Let me also add that while I can see the failure of the heat pack having something to do with a possible respiratory issue, I in no way see how that could give a dragon parasites.
I am not sure what else can be resolved at this point. I will send you the vet records on Monday. Not sure what that is going to do since you are throwing every reason at me as to why this isnt your issue. If you would like to respond via email or give me a call to discuss, please do. You have my number. PLEASE do not continue firing up my cell with your lengthy texts.
--- On Thu, 12/23/10, Mike Livengood <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Mike Livengood <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Adult Red/Orange Female
To: [email protected]
Date: Thursday, December 23, 2010, 3:02 PM
Steven and Nichole,
I have been cordial up to this point but find I am getting very frustrated with this situation. Not sure why you are choosing to text me rather than to respond directly to my emails. Your offer for me to text or call as you dont want to get into an email battle with me makes no sense. It is much easier for me (as your customer) to type out an email on a keyboard rather than cycling through letters on a number pad.
I have not turned anything around on you. Everything I have stated is fact. If anything has been turned around on you it has simply been a response to your statement. If you feel I am twisting anything around, please spell out what it is you are referring to. I do have a hard time following a text that comes over in 20 sections due to its length so maybe you are confused as to what I am responding to. Again, not sure why you are reading my emails but responding via text?
Not sure why you are continuing to bash the BOI as "bull", then go on to state you request Good Guy threads so you can refer potential customers to them. Do you not understand the contradiction of use you trying to justify? Bad threads dont mean anything but Good Guy threads are suitable for potential business? You cant have it both ways.
You also go on to state "most BOI threads are started to ruin peoples lives and business and that you think its wrong". Maybe you should realize that negative actions lead to negative comments. There are a lot of positive things being said on that board about numerous people. Basically, provide a good product and service, receive postiive feedback. In the situation I have been put in I would be completely justified in posting negative comments regarding your business pracitices and complete failure of any semblance of customer service.
You also mentioned because you purchased faulty heat packs that makes absolves you of any responsibility in this. YOUR issue is with YOUR supplier. MY issue is with YOU and only YOU. I do not care about the hows and the whys, that is for you to deal with. Your are the business, you should stand behind your product and handle other matters outside of this transaction.
Not even sure why I am discussing all these other matters. It appears your concern is more about the BOI than it is about the dragon. I guess it shows where your priorities lie.
Count me an unsatisfied customer.
--- On Wed, 12/22/10, Mike Livengood <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Mike Livengood <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Adult Red/Orange Female
To: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, December 22, 2010, 3:52 PM
Nichole,
I have received your text messages.
Let me begin by stating that your statement of "its real nice to attack someone before Christmas" has no bearing. First of all, I do not see in any of my correspondence where I have attacked you in any way. In fact, I feel I have been cordial in my dealings with you. To try and spin it that it is also "Christmas" is ludicrous. The time of year has no bearing on bad business practices.
Please do not bring Nichole's health into this matter. I understand she is ill and hope she gets better. However, understand as a customer my concern is to ensure I have not been cheated. Would you expect for the bank to lose a deposit of yours and for their explanation to be that the employee was ill so just deal with it? You are running a business, please keep matters on a business, not personal, level.
Your statement that I "expect you to pull money out of thin air" also carries no weight. I paid your asking price for an animal that I received in poor health. Why would you expect me to receive an animal at your price to then also be responsible for paying for its health care? Your expectation must be that since you are no longer the owner of the animal, the next person in line can "pull money out of thin air". Your claims of running a sound business fall flat when you sell an unhealthy animal and your defense is based on your lack of available funds or health of your partner.
You also mentioned that I did not pay premium pricing as this dragon is worth more than I paid. The market doesnt seem too good at the moment for an animal that carries no additional genetics. Not sure how much color gets these days but I would think I paid a fair, if not high, price for her. If you think she was worth more, you should have asked more. I actually wish you had asked for more as it might have been enough to keep me away.
My intention of reaching out to you is not so that it ends up on the Fauna BOI as you suggested. If that was my intent it would have already happened. I am only asking for compensation for money that I am out of pocket for an unhealthy animal you sold to me. Offering another dragon two months from now solves nothing for me but adding another animal to care for.
Any accusations I have brought can be supported by email and text documentation, as well as by vet bills. Your suggestion that posting on the BOI will get me nowhere as you don't have any money and that I am out to ruin your business doesn't make any sense. Again, I am only asking for compensation for what I feel I am owed. If posting on the BOI would prevent someone else from receiving a dragon from you and having to deal with this mess than so be it. For someone not concerned with the stuff being said on the BOI you were certainly pushing me hard to add a Good Guy thread for you the day she arrived. With all the bashing you have taken, I would have expected this to be resolved in a more professional manner.
Lastly, I received another round of texts from you seeming to offer some sort of compensation. Please let me know what you are offering and I will decide how I will proceed with things. Would like to know the amount and the timeframe to which I could expect to receive any money from you. The vet bills alone were over $150, not to mention the price I paid for the dragon.
-Mike
--- On Wed, 12/22/10, Mike Livengood <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Mike Livengood <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Adult Red/Orange Female
To: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, December 22, 2010, 7:01 AM
Will have to say I am disappointed in your response. Receiving another dragon to compensate does nothing for my wallet and only adds another dragon to the stable that I may not need. I do not think a refund of the portion of the cost of the dragon or reimbursement for vet expenses is beyond reason.
All communication from me from the time I received the animal made you aware of its condition which proves that the issues it has are not on my end. Not sure how respiratory or heavy parasite could turn up so quickly if there were not issues present prior to sending. The smell of the feces alone is enough to clear a room and that was the very first bowel movement it had.
This is the exact reason why I did not immediately post under the Good Guy forum when I received the dragon. The excitement of purchasing a beautiful animal can cloud health issues initially. Why would I post favorably for a dragon that has the issues this one does?
Your offer of an additional dragon down the line may be adequate in your eyes but falls short from a business perspective. I paid a premium price for this dragon and expect it to be in good health. In addition to my upfront cost for the dragon, I am now into it for vet bills along with the time it has taken me away from work.
You seem to want everyone to know the quality of your animals and the care you put into them yet fail to stand behind your product. I didn't cause the health issues of this dragon yet I am left footing the bill to bring it to back to health. Beyond frustrated.
-Mike
--- On Wed, 12/22/10, STeven Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
From: STeven Walker <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Adult Red/Orange Female
To: "Mike Livengood" <[email protected]>
Date: Wednesday, December 22, 2010, 12:27 AM
Sorry we do not take any reptiles back. All i can tell you is she was in perfect health here shes never been sick nor had a parasite issue all of our dragons are clean and healthy. Id never sell a sick dragon, i will give you the benefit of the doubt once we have more babies here I will send you a nice one to make up for any trouble i am expecting a clutch within the week. I do not ship before they are 6 weeks though, there will be some nice double hets that are not leather back trans or silk back. I will let you know when they hatch i was hoping it would be before christmas not sure it will happen though.
-original message-
Subject: RE: Adult Red/Orange Female
From: Mike Livengood <[email protected]>
Date: 12/21/2010 11:08 PM
Steven and Nichole,
Have been to the vet the past two days. Dragon was diagnosed with a respiratory infection as well as a heavy parasite infestation. Have to say not really happy about purchasing an adult dragon with this many issues, let alone spending an additional $150 on top of it. For the price I paid I would have expected to receive an animal in exceptional health.
At this point I almost feel like returning the animal for a refund. I dont mind taking the time and spending the money to nurse animals back to health but not when it was an animal purchased at a premium that turns out was already sick.
Can you please let me know what your policy is on refunds/returns?
-Mike
--- On Mon, 12/13/10, STeven Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
From: STeven Walker <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Adult Red/Orange Female
To: "Mike Livengood" <[email protected]>
Date: Monday, December 13, 2010, 2:22 AM
Mike i have been talking to lll reptile they are contacting the company that makes the heat packs with my complaint i also asked them to replace my whole order as i dont trust the heat packs i have now. I will keep you in the loop on what else i find out, hows akira doing? Her favorite food is super worms have you tried those? I started the female we got in sick on baytril using a nebulizer it is the best way to treat any kind of respiratory problem. Did you turn her heat up a bit? You can keep a red light on in her tank at night that helps alot. Pardon my typing i am on my phone as we are having issues with our internet thanks to another storm.
-original message-
Subject: RE: Adult Red/Orange Female
From: Mike Livengood <[email protected]>
Date: 12/11/2010 10:25 PM
Steven and Nicole,
Sorry for the delay in responding. Been a hectic week with work and Christmas coming up.
A bit slow to eat so far. Seems like she may still be stressed from the trip. She arrived cold with the heat pack barely warm. My wife held her against her arms and still took quite a while to warm up. Have had her quarantined as is my normal practice when bringing in new animals. Have noticed some fluid coming from her nose, not much but enough to notice. Also, has she been checked for parasites recently? She had her first bm today and it was very foul, stinking up the room. Ive got her scheduled for a vet visit next week to check her out and do a fecal.
I've browsed through the BOI postings on Fauna. Looks like you have been taking a beating there. I have no desire to enter into any of that drama as I have no problem with anyone as long as they treat me fairly. At this point, I have no reason to post anything negative as I feel the transaction went smoothly. However, I do want to wait and make sure this animal is cleared by the vet before committing to any positive Good Guy posts as well. As mentioned above, there is a bit of concern with condition of the stool as it is pretty rough. I just had another dragon go through several weeks of Albon to get cleared up and can only imagine I am going to go through it again with this dragon. Will let you know what I hear back from the vet.
With that being said, I must say she is a very pretty dragon that was represented well in the ads. Ive had a couple others purchased online that seemed a bit drab compared to their posted pics but Akira matches up color for color.
Thanks,
Mike
--- On Thu, 12/9/10, STeven Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
From: STeven Walker <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Adult Red/Orange Female
To: "Mike Livengood" <[email protected]>
Date: Thursday, December 9, 2010, 11:16 AM
Hows akira? Any chance you can post a good guy thread, positive karma, or a good trader rating?
-original message-
Subject: RE: Adult Red/Orange Female
From: Mike Livengood <[email protected]>
Date: 11/25/2010 10:14 PM
Nichole,
Thanks for sending the pics. After looking through them all and the male posted on Fauna, I might be leaning toward the posted male. Will need to see if I can work him into my budget and will let you know.
On the Leucistics... if you were to breed a Leucistic against a vibrant color, what would/should the common result be? Just not familiar enough with the morph to know if it would work in my future breeding plans.
Thanks,
Mike
--- On Thu, 11/25/10, STeven Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
From: STeven Walker <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Adult Red/Orange Female
To: [email protected]
Date: Thursday, November 25, 2010, 9:18 PM
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 15:37:44 -0800
From: [email protected]
Subject: Adult Red/Orange Female
To: [email protected]
Can you give me some additional info on this dragon? I'm assuming she is not het hypo or trans since it isnt mentioned. Been looking for a "normal" female breeder with intense colors and she seems to fit the bill nicely. Can you send me pics of the parents? Would you accept $300 shipped to 46112 in Indiana?
Thanks,
Mike
I have over the past several months picked up a number of bearded dragons with the intention of breeding on a small scale. Thank you to everyone I have communicated with, the dragons and advice have been much appreciated.
However, I did want to bring to light what is the worst situation of bad animal health/bad customer service I have encountered. As the emails below show, I tried to resolve this directly without bringing it to the BOI. Continued lack of responsibility on the part of Mythical Dragonz, I felt this needed brought out in case someone else was put in the same situation.
Purchased a dragon from Mythical Dragonz in November. Called for Steven as the ad had him listed as point of contact and ended up speaking to Nichole, who answered, for an hour. Spoke with Nichole on another occassion during this mess, have not yet spoken directly to Steven. Take that how you will.
In my ongoing correspondence with Steven/Nichole, I kept receiving texted responses instead of emails. I continued responding via email so several of my emails run back to back. However, I did make a point to restate or respond directly to statements made in the text correspondence.
Basically, received an adult bearded dragon on 12/7/10, when the high temp was only 22 degrees. Dragon had some fluid coming from its nose, was lethargic and slow to eat. Bowel movement was beyond foul and stunk up the entire house when her cage was opened. Vet visit scheduled, time off work requested. Turns out dragon had heavy parasite infestation and respiratory infection, possible pneumonia.
The email chain below tells the whole story. I would be more than happy to answer any questions regarding this matter, either by posting or PM. At this point I have decided to post the facts here rather than to try and continue to correspond and resolve the situation amicably. Being told I was the one who chose the shipment date was the last straw. Calling me a liar when she is the one who sent without first askingme is beyond belief.
Good luck to anyone in dealing with this person(s?) in the future. You have been warned!
Michael Livengood
RE: Adult Red/Orange FemaleMonday, December 27, 2010 4:47 PM
From: "Mike Livengood" <[email protected]>View contact detailsTo: "STeven Walker" <[email protected]>Message contains attachments5 Files (12 MB) | Download All2-27-10 039.JPG2-27-10 040.JPG2-27-10 042.JPG2-27-10 043.JPG2-27-10 050.JPGNichole and Steven,
As I stated I would, I have attached the vet bills along with a pic of her cage to this email. Please note I am home sick today and took them with my camera instead of scanning them in.
Let me start my response by saying you clearly do not remember how things progressed regarding shipment of this animal. You were to originally send out 12/1/10 but contacted me as there was a snowstorm and you were unable to get her out. My response was that I was in no hurry, the health of the dragon was more important to me than receiving her quickly. DO NOT try to imply that I am the one that chose the date of shipment. I was notified of the shipment from UPS via email on 12/6/10. Mind you the temp that day was a high of 19 degrees/low of 7. On 12/7/10, the high was 22/low was 10. You are INSANE to suggest that I am the one that pushed for her to be shipped. That was 110% your call as I wasnt even aware she had been shipped until I received the UPS shipment notification that evening. As other breeders I purchased from during the same timeframe can attest, I have told them to please wait until warmer temperatures before shipping. Several STILL havent sent them and I am perfectly fine with that. Stating I chose the shipment date is an OUTRIGHT LIE!
I contacted you on the 11th when my wife called and said she had arrived. I told you at that time she was icy and the heatpack was barely warm. The description of your guarantee below is completely bogus. It seems suspiciously like it was written and geared toward this exact scenario. Might help if you had a website detailing your guarantees. Strange it seems every other reputable breeder has one. Also seems strange all your old listings are no longer available on Fauna for reference.
I also like the way you then try to wrap up this last email trying to show concern. What "supplies" could you even consider sending me that would make a difference at this point? I went to a vet for the exam and am administering meds based on her direction. Not sure why I would have ANY faith in anything from you at this point.
At this point, I'm done trying to reach a resolution with you. You have outright lied at the suggestion that it was my call to ship the animal. You have blamed faulty heat packs. You have suggested it was my setup when every other animal I have received in the past few months is 100% healthy. You have done basically everything you could to try and put this back on someone other than yourself. This has been the only negative experience I have had from any online reptile purchase but it sure was a doozy. Pathetic.
--- On Mon, 12/27/10, STeven Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
From: STeven Walker <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Adult Red/Orange Female
To: [email protected]
Date: Monday, December 27, 2010, 3:47 PM
Mike,
How is Akira doing? I am still awaiting this "Vet Bill" you told me would be sent today. I also never received any answers to my questions on your set up. I need to know how big the tank is, what substrate she is on, along with the type of lighting and temperatures. I do want you to review our Guarantees because you do need to realize when you contacted me about this problem there where no Guarantees on the dragon. I am not trying to sound like I don't care here but you did not notify me of any possible problems until December 11th. I gave you advice on your concerns for the dragon and you chose to instead go to a vet. I did not hear from you again until December 21st. You need to understand that I have no control over how you care for the dragon once it is out of my care. You complained of a possible issue with the heat packs so I took the time and contacted the company that makes the Heat Packs. But you also need to realize that you choose the date to ship her and I made you aware of the temperatures. I do not Guarantee anything under 32 Degrees and it was below that in your area.
- Satisfaction Guarantee - If you are not satisfied for any reason with the dragon you received you must contact us the same day the dragon arrived. You will be required to send the dragon back at your cost for a refund or a replacement dragon of equal value. Shipping Charges are non refundable.
- Health Guarantee - All of our Dragons are sold with a 48 hour health guarantee if for some reason there is any issue within the first 48 hours immediately contact us. We will need a detailed description of what is going on and your set up including the size of the tank, substrate, lighting, temperatures, and the food you are feeding your Dragon.
- Live Arrival - If for some reason your dragon arrived deceased please contact us immediately we will require picture proof and possibly the return of the dragons body. We will offer either a refund minus shipping charges or a replacement dragon of equal value.
- Cold Weather - Winter Temperatures do effect our Guarantees. If you choose to have a dragon shipping and it is below 32 degrees the Guarantees above are void. There is a risk that in temperatures under 32 degrees heat packs will fail. We ship based on weather but many times we are asked to ship dragons regardless of temperatures.
- Shipping - We can not be held responsible for any issues with the shipping service. If a package is lost or delayed we will do our best to assist you with this and work with the shipping company to find out where it is and get it to you as quick as possible. Shipping companies do not insure live animals.
Please get back to me as soon as possible. I would be more than happy to send you some supplies to assist in her recovery. I am trying to figure out how she got sick in your care, did you soak her right after you got her? Make sure you send me the information on the set up so I can help you figure this problem out. I also need your shipping address.
Thank you,
Steven Walker
RE: Adult Red/Orange FemaleThursday, December 23, 2010 9:51 PM
From: "STeven Walker" <[email protected]>Add sender to ContactsTo: "Mike Livengood" <[email protected]>
Parasites didnt happen in my care if she has any. Maybe you should send me a description of your set up so i can review it. No reptile in our care has any parasitic issues or illness. stop pointing your finger at me i dont think that is hard to do. Dragons also can get parasite overloads when stressed and shipping is STRESSFUL all dragons i get in are wormed right away and kept away from the rest 2 weeks later i run a fecal and make sure they are healthy before they go in the main reptile room. I have one of the best microscopes available along with float smear and stain kits i dont fool around with the health of our dragons. I will be more than happy to send you some worming supplies if you resend your address. And i am not offering that in an insulting way. I tried calling several times i hate emailing people.
-original message-
Subject: RE: Adult Red/Orange Female
From: Mike Livengood <[email protected]>
Date: 12/23/2010 9:11 PM
Steven,
I politely request that any future correspondence you have with me is done via email. You continue sending large texts that are broken up into multiple groups because of the size of the text. I am not on a payment plan for texts so you are costing me additional money by not simply replying via email. I am not sure why you are reading my emails but responding only by text anyway?
I will send you scans of what I was given from the vet when I go back to work on Monday as I do not have a scanner available at home.
Your last text stated I should have approached you in a professional manner. I believe every bit of my correspondence has been professional. If you read my first email it details the condition of the dragon at the time it was received. If my correspondence with you grows more pointed over the course of several emails it is simply in response to the negative comments I am receiving from you.
You continue to state the failure of the heat pack isnt your fault. I understand that once the dragon leaves your possession it is out of your control how the animal is handled. However, you yourself have stated you have contacted the company you purchased the heat packs from as they were faulty. YOU as a business have a responsibility to ME as a customer. If you received faulty packaging that subsequently failed and caused issues with an animal, that is for YOU to take up with that company. Whatever resolution you come to on that matter is YOUR business. MY concern is the health of this animal. Let me also add that while I can see the failure of the heat pack having something to do with a possible respiratory issue, I in no way see how that could give a dragon parasites.
I am not sure what else can be resolved at this point. I will send you the vet records on Monday. Not sure what that is going to do since you are throwing every reason at me as to why this isnt your issue. If you would like to respond via email or give me a call to discuss, please do. You have my number. PLEASE do not continue firing up my cell with your lengthy texts.
--- On Thu, 12/23/10, Mike Livengood <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Mike Livengood <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Adult Red/Orange Female
To: [email protected]
Date: Thursday, December 23, 2010, 3:02 PM
Steven and Nichole,
I have been cordial up to this point but find I am getting very frustrated with this situation. Not sure why you are choosing to text me rather than to respond directly to my emails. Your offer for me to text or call as you dont want to get into an email battle with me makes no sense. It is much easier for me (as your customer) to type out an email on a keyboard rather than cycling through letters on a number pad.
I have not turned anything around on you. Everything I have stated is fact. If anything has been turned around on you it has simply been a response to your statement. If you feel I am twisting anything around, please spell out what it is you are referring to. I do have a hard time following a text that comes over in 20 sections due to its length so maybe you are confused as to what I am responding to. Again, not sure why you are reading my emails but responding via text?
Not sure why you are continuing to bash the BOI as "bull", then go on to state you request Good Guy threads so you can refer potential customers to them. Do you not understand the contradiction of use you trying to justify? Bad threads dont mean anything but Good Guy threads are suitable for potential business? You cant have it both ways.
You also go on to state "most BOI threads are started to ruin peoples lives and business and that you think its wrong". Maybe you should realize that negative actions lead to negative comments. There are a lot of positive things being said on that board about numerous people. Basically, provide a good product and service, receive postiive feedback. In the situation I have been put in I would be completely justified in posting negative comments regarding your business pracitices and complete failure of any semblance of customer service.
You also mentioned because you purchased faulty heat packs that makes absolves you of any responsibility in this. YOUR issue is with YOUR supplier. MY issue is with YOU and only YOU. I do not care about the hows and the whys, that is for you to deal with. Your are the business, you should stand behind your product and handle other matters outside of this transaction.
Not even sure why I am discussing all these other matters. It appears your concern is more about the BOI than it is about the dragon. I guess it shows where your priorities lie.
Count me an unsatisfied customer.
--- On Wed, 12/22/10, Mike Livengood <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Mike Livengood <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Adult Red/Orange Female
To: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, December 22, 2010, 3:52 PM
Nichole,
I have received your text messages.
Let me begin by stating that your statement of "its real nice to attack someone before Christmas" has no bearing. First of all, I do not see in any of my correspondence where I have attacked you in any way. In fact, I feel I have been cordial in my dealings with you. To try and spin it that it is also "Christmas" is ludicrous. The time of year has no bearing on bad business practices.
Please do not bring Nichole's health into this matter. I understand she is ill and hope she gets better. However, understand as a customer my concern is to ensure I have not been cheated. Would you expect for the bank to lose a deposit of yours and for their explanation to be that the employee was ill so just deal with it? You are running a business, please keep matters on a business, not personal, level.
Your statement that I "expect you to pull money out of thin air" also carries no weight. I paid your asking price for an animal that I received in poor health. Why would you expect me to receive an animal at your price to then also be responsible for paying for its health care? Your expectation must be that since you are no longer the owner of the animal, the next person in line can "pull money out of thin air". Your claims of running a sound business fall flat when you sell an unhealthy animal and your defense is based on your lack of available funds or health of your partner.
You also mentioned that I did not pay premium pricing as this dragon is worth more than I paid. The market doesnt seem too good at the moment for an animal that carries no additional genetics. Not sure how much color gets these days but I would think I paid a fair, if not high, price for her. If you think she was worth more, you should have asked more. I actually wish you had asked for more as it might have been enough to keep me away.
My intention of reaching out to you is not so that it ends up on the Fauna BOI as you suggested. If that was my intent it would have already happened. I am only asking for compensation for money that I am out of pocket for an unhealthy animal you sold to me. Offering another dragon two months from now solves nothing for me but adding another animal to care for.
Any accusations I have brought can be supported by email and text documentation, as well as by vet bills. Your suggestion that posting on the BOI will get me nowhere as you don't have any money and that I am out to ruin your business doesn't make any sense. Again, I am only asking for compensation for what I feel I am owed. If posting on the BOI would prevent someone else from receiving a dragon from you and having to deal with this mess than so be it. For someone not concerned with the stuff being said on the BOI you were certainly pushing me hard to add a Good Guy thread for you the day she arrived. With all the bashing you have taken, I would have expected this to be resolved in a more professional manner.
Lastly, I received another round of texts from you seeming to offer some sort of compensation. Please let me know what you are offering and I will decide how I will proceed with things. Would like to know the amount and the timeframe to which I could expect to receive any money from you. The vet bills alone were over $150, not to mention the price I paid for the dragon.
-Mike
--- On Wed, 12/22/10, Mike Livengood <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Mike Livengood <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Adult Red/Orange Female
To: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, December 22, 2010, 7:01 AM
Will have to say I am disappointed in your response. Receiving another dragon to compensate does nothing for my wallet and only adds another dragon to the stable that I may not need. I do not think a refund of the portion of the cost of the dragon or reimbursement for vet expenses is beyond reason.
All communication from me from the time I received the animal made you aware of its condition which proves that the issues it has are not on my end. Not sure how respiratory or heavy parasite could turn up so quickly if there were not issues present prior to sending. The smell of the feces alone is enough to clear a room and that was the very first bowel movement it had.
This is the exact reason why I did not immediately post under the Good Guy forum when I received the dragon. The excitement of purchasing a beautiful animal can cloud health issues initially. Why would I post favorably for a dragon that has the issues this one does?
Your offer of an additional dragon down the line may be adequate in your eyes but falls short from a business perspective. I paid a premium price for this dragon and expect it to be in good health. In addition to my upfront cost for the dragon, I am now into it for vet bills along with the time it has taken me away from work.
You seem to want everyone to know the quality of your animals and the care you put into them yet fail to stand behind your product. I didn't cause the health issues of this dragon yet I am left footing the bill to bring it to back to health. Beyond frustrated.
-Mike
--- On Wed, 12/22/10, STeven Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
From: STeven Walker <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Adult Red/Orange Female
To: "Mike Livengood" <[email protected]>
Date: Wednesday, December 22, 2010, 12:27 AM
Sorry we do not take any reptiles back. All i can tell you is she was in perfect health here shes never been sick nor had a parasite issue all of our dragons are clean and healthy. Id never sell a sick dragon, i will give you the benefit of the doubt once we have more babies here I will send you a nice one to make up for any trouble i am expecting a clutch within the week. I do not ship before they are 6 weeks though, there will be some nice double hets that are not leather back trans or silk back. I will let you know when they hatch i was hoping it would be before christmas not sure it will happen though.
-original message-
Subject: RE: Adult Red/Orange Female
From: Mike Livengood <[email protected]>
Date: 12/21/2010 11:08 PM
Steven and Nichole,
Have been to the vet the past two days. Dragon was diagnosed with a respiratory infection as well as a heavy parasite infestation. Have to say not really happy about purchasing an adult dragon with this many issues, let alone spending an additional $150 on top of it. For the price I paid I would have expected to receive an animal in exceptional health.
At this point I almost feel like returning the animal for a refund. I dont mind taking the time and spending the money to nurse animals back to health but not when it was an animal purchased at a premium that turns out was already sick.
Can you please let me know what your policy is on refunds/returns?
-Mike
--- On Mon, 12/13/10, STeven Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
From: STeven Walker <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Adult Red/Orange Female
To: "Mike Livengood" <[email protected]>
Date: Monday, December 13, 2010, 2:22 AM
Mike i have been talking to lll reptile they are contacting the company that makes the heat packs with my complaint i also asked them to replace my whole order as i dont trust the heat packs i have now. I will keep you in the loop on what else i find out, hows akira doing? Her favorite food is super worms have you tried those? I started the female we got in sick on baytril using a nebulizer it is the best way to treat any kind of respiratory problem. Did you turn her heat up a bit? You can keep a red light on in her tank at night that helps alot. Pardon my typing i am on my phone as we are having issues with our internet thanks to another storm.
-original message-
Subject: RE: Adult Red/Orange Female
From: Mike Livengood <[email protected]>
Date: 12/11/2010 10:25 PM
Steven and Nicole,
Sorry for the delay in responding. Been a hectic week with work and Christmas coming up.
A bit slow to eat so far. Seems like she may still be stressed from the trip. She arrived cold with the heat pack barely warm. My wife held her against her arms and still took quite a while to warm up. Have had her quarantined as is my normal practice when bringing in new animals. Have noticed some fluid coming from her nose, not much but enough to notice. Also, has she been checked for parasites recently? She had her first bm today and it was very foul, stinking up the room. Ive got her scheduled for a vet visit next week to check her out and do a fecal.
I've browsed through the BOI postings on Fauna. Looks like you have been taking a beating there. I have no desire to enter into any of that drama as I have no problem with anyone as long as they treat me fairly. At this point, I have no reason to post anything negative as I feel the transaction went smoothly. However, I do want to wait and make sure this animal is cleared by the vet before committing to any positive Good Guy posts as well. As mentioned above, there is a bit of concern with condition of the stool as it is pretty rough. I just had another dragon go through several weeks of Albon to get cleared up and can only imagine I am going to go through it again with this dragon. Will let you know what I hear back from the vet.
With that being said, I must say she is a very pretty dragon that was represented well in the ads. Ive had a couple others purchased online that seemed a bit drab compared to their posted pics but Akira matches up color for color.
Thanks,
Mike
--- On Thu, 12/9/10, STeven Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
From: STeven Walker <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Adult Red/Orange Female
To: "Mike Livengood" <[email protected]>
Date: Thursday, December 9, 2010, 11:16 AM
Hows akira? Any chance you can post a good guy thread, positive karma, or a good trader rating?
-original message-
Subject: RE: Adult Red/Orange Female
From: Mike Livengood <[email protected]>
Date: 11/25/2010 10:14 PM
Nichole,
Thanks for sending the pics. After looking through them all and the male posted on Fauna, I might be leaning toward the posted male. Will need to see if I can work him into my budget and will let you know.
On the Leucistics... if you were to breed a Leucistic against a vibrant color, what would/should the common result be? Just not familiar enough with the morph to know if it would work in my future breeding plans.
Thanks,
Mike
--- On Thu, 11/25/10, STeven Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
From: STeven Walker <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Adult Red/Orange Female
To: [email protected]
Date: Thursday, November 25, 2010, 9:18 PM
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 15:37:44 -0800
From: [email protected]
Subject: Adult Red/Orange Female
To: [email protected]
Can you give me some additional info on this dragon? I'm assuming she is not het hypo or trans since it isnt mentioned. Been looking for a "normal" female breeder with intense colors and she seems to fit the bill nicely. Can you send me pics of the parents? Would you accept $300 shipped to 46112 in Indiana?
Thanks,
Mike
both said she does NOT handle the customer service part any more.
and the extreme shipping temps... An with nicole shipping dragons for how long? She still sends this dragon out with a high of what 22-23? 
