Bad Guy Jeff Barringer --Kingsnake.com hypocrisy

[cobraman1]

No, I understand the word hybrid. I just don't agree with YOUR interpretation where subspecies designations mean it is ok to breed them together to make subspecific HYBRIDS or what you call intergrades. It's been shown already the problems inherent to this logic see post #76 by RidgeTop Reptiles.

It's a moot point in terms of this thread. I agree with Jeff B.'s decision to move your adds and after seeing the way your responded to him and in this thread I agree with him canceling your account.

I am quite sure that if you would like to debate hybrid vs intergrade there would be many that would respond (from both sides) if you started a thread in the forums (or found an already started thread there to revisit).

I think biggest problem with Jeff B moving his ads is the fact that he has only made a section for hybrid kings. Im not sure what sense that makes at all if he isnt going to do the same with ALL reptile/amphibian sections on KS. With that being said, it is hypocritical of Jeff B for doing this. Now, I know its his business and he has a right to do with it as he pleases, but He needs to consider that the only reason he has his business is because of the people that pay him to display ads. He should treat them all the same. its not about what is hybrid or intergrade, its about respecting all of your customers as equal partners. Once again, Im not saying Jeff S wasnt a little pushy, but he has a point.

 

[Jeff Schofield]

No, I understand the word hybrid. I just don't agree with YOUR interpretation where subspecies designations mean it is ok to breed them together to make subspecific HYBRIDS or what you call intergrades. It's been shown already the problems inherent to this logic see post #76 by RidgeTop Reptiles.

It's a moot point in terms of this thread. I agree with Jeff B.'s decision to move your adds and after seeing the way your responded to him and in this thread I agree with him canceling your account.

I am quite sure that if you would like to debate hybrid vs intergrade there would be many that would respond (from both sides) if you started a thread in the forums (or found an already started thread there to revisit).

Well if anyone wants to read post #76 you will realize he doesnt understand the difference between species and subspecies never mind intergrades or hybrids. It is not a moot point that the title of the thread is the hypocrisy of ks.com. I wont debate hybrids/intergrades with you because dont understand what is wrong with thread #76.

 

[Jeff Schofield]

I think biggest problem with Jeff B moving his ads is the fact that he has only made a section for hybrid kings. Im not sure what sense that makes at all if he isnt going to do the same with ALL reptile/amphibian sections on KS. With that being said, it is hypocritical of Jeff B for doing this. Now, I know its his business and he has a right to do with it as he pleases, but He needs to consider that the only reason he has his business is because of the people that pay him to display ads. He should treat them all the same. its not about what is hybrid or intergrade, its about respecting all of your customers as equal partners. Once again, Im not saying Jeff S wasnt a little pushy, but he has a point.

Thank you, back on topic!

 

[The BoidSmith]

The more anyone reads this thread the more is evident that Jeff B.'s decision was not based on hybridization semantics, and that it is more than likely irreversible.

 

[Lucille]

The more anyone reads this thread the more is evident that Jeff B.'s decision was not based on hybridization semantics, and that it is more than likely irreversible.

I agree. And the thread makes a reverse less likely wherever the OP may again take issue in a like manner.

 

[CalebHarris]

I dont know what you meant by suggestions, but I guess it depends on what you would want from the situation now. Legally, if he has hurt your business, and you can prove it, you pretty much have a case in court. Especially if there are other people whose adds for hybrids have not been treated the same way. Whether he put your adds in the right place or not, is irrelevant from a legal perspective. The only way you would have any recourse, is on the grounds that his actions knowingly caused damage to your business. But I dont know that it would be worth your time to pursue anything like that. It would be a long process, and who knows, he may have access to much better legal representation than you. I would just wait some time, and send an apologetic email and try to work it out that way. Or, you could just not do business through kingsnake anymore.

 

[scaledverts]

Well if anyone wants to read post #76 you will realize he doesnt understand the difference between species and subspecies never mind intergrades or hybrids. It is not a moot point that the title of the thread is the hypocrisy of ks.com. I wont debate hybrids/intergrades with you because dont understand what is wrong with thread #76.

AHAHAHA I don't understand what is WRONG with this post. Wow just wow. I guess the only correct answer for you IS "You are right and none else has a clue what they are talking about. Oh great and all knowing one, ." Yeah, that's not going to happen, so good luck selling your hybrid snakes on a website other than KS because there is NO WAY you are actually going to get back on there with your attitude. I am sure he has seen this thread by now.

 

[EdwardK]

Again, you dont understand the word HYBRID. It is defined as breeding Species A x Species B......all the animals I work with are in the same SPECIES, and their subspecific ranges overlap. They are called INTERGRADES.

Actually this definition is not accepted in the literature... intergrades are considered to be animals found in "hybridization zones" and these zones can be the result of species crossed with species, subspecies crossed with subspecies or races crossed with races.. For a hybridization zone to occur it has contain hybrids..

For a short list of examples see the following (note the two herp references....)

"Analysis of Hybridization between two subspecies of the Desert Whiptail Lizard, Cnemidophorus tigris" see http://www.jstor.org/pss/1440676

"A hybrid zone between two subspecies of the grasshopper Chorthippus parallelus along the Pyrenees: the west end" found at http://www.nature.com/hdy/journal/v73/n6/abs/hdy1994170a.html

"Narrow hybrid zone between two subspecies of big sagebrush (ARTEMISIA TRIDENTATA: Asteraceae). IX. Elemental uptake and niche separation" found at http://www.amjbot.org/cgi/content/full/86/8/1099

"Analysis of a hybrid zone between subspecies of the tiger
salamander (Ambystoma tigrinum) in central New Mexico, USA" found at http://www.collinslab.asu.edu/publications/21Jones_hybrid.pdf

Some comments,

Ed

 

[The BoidSmith]

Legally, if he has hurt your business, and you can prove it, you pretty much have a case in court. Especially if there are other people whose adds for hybrids have not been treated the same way. Whether he put your adds in the right place or not, is irrelevant from a legal perspective. The only way you would have any recourse, is on the grounds that his actions knowingly caused damage to your business. But I dont know that it would be worth your time to pursue anything like that. It would be a long process, and who knows, he may have access to much better legal representation than you.

Without having any expertise in law it seems to me his chances are from 0 to -50. We assume Jeff B. has the obligation to offer service to everyone. It is his site and he has the right to give an account to whoever he wants and kick-out whoever he pleases, particularly if it's an individual that disrupts his site. Which brings me to the next point, if there was a lawyer desperate enough for money to take the case, rest assured there would be a countersuit...and Jeff B. stands a great chance to win it. Had Jeff B. kept the money there would have been a slim chance but let's give credit to his intelligence, he returned it...

 

[KelliH]

Without having any expertise in law it seems to me his chances are from 0 to -50. We assume Jeff B. has the obligation to offer service to everyone. It is his site and he has the right to give an account to whoever he wants and kick-out whoever he pleases, particularly if it's an individual that disrupts his site. Which brings me to the next point, if there was a lawyer desperate enough for money to take the case, rest assured there would be a countersuit...and Jeff B. stands a great chance to win it. Had Jeff B. kept the money there would have been a slim chance but let's give credit to his intelligence, he returned it...

Exactly. It's a privately owned website, and he can ban anyone he wants to, for any reason he wants to.

 

[Jeff Schofield]

Without having any expertise in law it seems to me his chances are from 0 to -50. We assume Jeff B. has the obligation to offer service to everyone. It is his site and he has the right to give an account to whoever he wants and kick-out whoever he pleases, particularly if it's an individual that disrupts his site. Which brings me to the next point, if there was a lawyer desperate enough for money to take the case, rest assured there would be a countersuit...and Jeff B. stands a great chance to win it. Had Jeff B. kept the money there would have been a slim chance but let's give credit to his intelligence, he returned it...

Lets NOT give him credit because he has NOT returned it.....

 

[KelliH]

From the kingsnake.com Classified Account Terms

 

[Southern Wolf]

Well if anyone wants to read post #76 you will realize he doesnt understand the difference between species and subspecies never mind intergrades or hybrids. It is not a moot point that the title of the thread is the hypocrisy of ks.com. I wont debate hybrids/intergrades with you because dont understand what is wrong with thread #76.

Then educate me smart

Florida Kingsnake, Lampropeltis getula floridana (Blanchard, 1919)
Lampropeltis = Genus
getula = Species
floridana = sub species.

What do I not understand. You're just pissed because we are not subscribing to YOUR theories on intergrade vs hybrid. By your theories... a cross between a cal king and a FL king should be an intergrade... but there is no way they are gonna intergrade in the wild.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Thanks for posting that information Kelli, no need for Jeff B. to even return the money.

 

[Wraith]

Thanks for posting that information Kelli, no need for Jeff B. to even return the money.

Jeff B is not obligated to return the money per the terms of Service that Jeff S agreed to follow when he purchased his account. Jeff B. is being generous in saying he would refund a pro-rated amount. I expect it takes time to have an accountant cut a check and mail it through the post office so for Jeff S. to expect money quickly is wishful thinking on his part.

 

[EdwardK]

Then educate me smart

Florida Kingsnake, Lampropeltis getula floridana (Blanchard, 1919)
Lampropeltis = Genus
getula = Species
floridana = sub species.

What do I not understand. You're just pissed because we are not subscribing to YOUR theories on intergrade vs hybrid. By your theories... a cross between a cal king and a FL king should be an intergrade... but there is no way they are gonna intergrade in the wild.

Even if they did "intergrade"... the literature would consider that to occur in a zone of hybridization.... If you have a zone of hybridization, you have hybrids...
see the examples I posted here in post 168
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1196025&postcount=168

Ed

 

[Steve_Zissou]

trying to clear your name and instead having 18 pages where you tell members they dont know what they are talking about doesnt help your cause very much my friend. Just because somebodys personal interpretation of a word is different than yours doesnt mean you get to tell everybody they are wrong and ignore the evidence presented to you that is contradictory to your interpretation of the word. seems 9 of 10 people agree on a different definition than yours, so instead of telling 90% of people their wrong and your right, you should educate yourself on the standpoints of others. Like nick hexum said "ignorance is bliss to those uneducated" , refusing to educate yourself on the standpoints of others to make an unbiased opinon doesnt help you much. I support adult arguments, where people have a chance to exchange different opinions to reach a conclusion i have learned quite a bit by listening to view points that are very different than my own standpoint. However if you ignore what others have to say and just think your always right theres no constructive argument its just you on a soap box telling people how it is regardless if your wrong or not (and looking mighty foolish in the process)

 

[akonitony]

trying to clear your name and instead having 18 pages where you tell members they dont know what they are talking about doesnt help your cause very much my friend. Just because somebodys personal interpretation of a word is different than yours doesnt mean you get to tell everybody they are wrong and ignore the evidence presented to you that is contradictory to your interpretation of the word. seems 9 of 10 people agree on a different definition than yours, so instead of telling 90% of people their wrong and your right, you should educate yourself on the standpoints of others. Like nick hexum said "ignorance is bliss to those uneducated" , refusing to educate yourself on the standpoints of others to make an unbiased opinon doesnt help you much. I support adult arguments, where people have a chance to exchange different opinions to reach a conclusion i have learned quite a bit by listening to view points that are very different than my own standpoint. However if you ignore what others have to say and just think your always right theres no constructive argument its just you on a soap box telling people how it is regardless if your wrong or not (and looking mighty foolish in the process)

See: Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Narcissistic personality disorder symptoms may include:

Believing that you're better than others
Fantasizing about power, success and attractiveness
Exaggerating your achievements or talents
Expecting constant praise and admiration
Believing that you're special and acting accordingly
Failing to recognize other people's emotions and feelings
Expecting others to go along with your ideas and plans
Taking advantage of others
Expressing disdain for those you feel are inferior
Being jealous of others
Believing that others are jealous of you
Trouble keeping healthy relationships
Setting unrealistic goals
Being easily hurt and rejected
Having a fragile self-esteem
Appearing as tough-minded or unemotional

 

[Jeff Schofield]

trying to clear your name and instead having 18 pages where you tell members they dont know what they are talking about doesnt help your cause very much my friend. Just because somebodys personal interpretation of a word is different than yours doesnt mean you get to tell everybody they are wrong and ignore the evidence presented to you that is contradictory to your interpretation of the word. seems 9 of 10 people agree on a different definition than yours, so instead of telling 90% of people their wrong and your right, you should educate yourself on the standpoints of others. Like nick hexum said "ignorance is bliss to those uneducated" , refusing to educate yourself on the standpoints of others to make an unbiased opinon doesnt help you much. I support adult arguments, where people have a chance to exchange different opinions to reach a conclusion i have learned quite a bit by listening to view points that are very different than my own standpoint. However if you ignore what others have to say and just think your always right theres no constructive argument its just you on a soap box telling people how it is regardless if your wrong or not (and looking mighty foolish in the process)

Well I dont believe in the Easter Bunny, tooth fairy or anyone from a big book. If people went along with popular opinion you might think the world was still flat. I have educated myself and several people here in this thread, sorry I couldnt help everyone. I am not ignoring others, but I am disturbed that people would chime in not knowing the accepted differences. I know somewhere there is a museum of Creationism too, just because alot of people go there doesnt mean they are right either. Making a point, didnt intend to debate religion.

 

[Southern Wolf]

Well I dont believe in the Easter Bunny, tooth fairy or anyone from a big book. If people went along with popular opinion you might think the world was still flat. I have educated myself and several people here in this thread, sorry I couldnt help everyone. I am not ignoring others, but I am disturbed that people would chime in not knowing MY accepted differences.

Fixed your wording to what you actually meant. You have proven in this thread that if folks don't subscribe to YOUR way of thinking they must be wrong. I believe you said something along the lines of your smarter than most of the folks here.

It's been brought to my attention that I hold a stricter since of the words "hybrid" and "intergrade" than some. Maybe I do this because Im not into making hybrids... and the folks that have a more looser definition of the two aren't against making hybrids.

As to your educating folks in this thread. You're right about that. You have educated us to your 'greather than thou' attitude, and we do appreciate the skoolin'