Info Lair of Dragons - Jodi Lease / Travis Delaney: Questionable quarantine practices...

[ozz465]

I am 100% in agreement with the last 2 major post here , seems the "police" act went overboard here.

 

[mikeyt]

I think the OP's add stated all the needed information for myself (if I was interested), to make a responsible descision ON MY OWN whether or not to purchase and or quarantine any of said animals if I had decided to purchase.

Now, I do understand the importance of quarantine procedures, as well as the post by Jen as an informational thread. However, I do agree that this thread has gone a little overboard.

The BOI is intended as an informative tool for those of us who choose to use it to further our reptile education, and to better ourselves and reptile community. Now the OP has admitted to maybe making mistakes in the past, but here you have a guy being about as honest as I think he could have gotten in his ad, and look at the position he is in. I have seen people in alot worse shape on here not taking as much as a beating as this guy is. I mean, what does it take to make people happy?

As far as Jen buying an animal from Outback, I sure hope she practices what she preaches. We all know Outback is a major player in the import business, and while they do produce many of their own animals, they also buy, trade and re-sell all day long. They currently have ads running, WANTED, all your animals, collections, big and small. Do you think they quarantine all those animals prior to sale? Dont think so. I have seen things traded to them at shows an put right on the table.

So, in conclusion, it would be nice if this WAS an informational thread only, but let up on the guy already. Travis, if I was intersted, I would buy without hesitation, use MY OWN judgement, follow my own quarantine procedures and live happily ever after. Good luck with your sales

Mikey

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

Josh had the albinos for months prior to my female being shipped here, and yes, she is in quarantine in an entirely different location from my collection. As I have said previously for those that seem to want to use this purchase against me, my decision to purchase from Outback was based solely on my previous dealings with Josh years ago that went very well with healthy animals, great customer service, etc. I have seen threads here on the BOI about them and thus far other than Ian (not Josh) avoiding contact with someone, I haven't found anything negative regarding sick animals or lack of quarantine. Also as I have already stated NUMEROUS times, my feelings on this have nothing to do with reselling or brokering animals or even imports -- it's about the proper quarantine of said animals and doing things the right way.

Damn right I'm practicing what I preach. Travis, I could care less how much money you make. Only someone that thinks they have something to prove throws out their 6-digit income as some kind of defense when asked a question about what they are willing to take responsibility for (and my question was not about the money or cost, but you taking true responsibility for it).

Your information is already on this thread, so when someone does a search on the BOI for your name or business, this thread will always come up in the results, even if another is created.

Tom, I said this in response to Travis' request for a new thread to be started, to explain why it would do no good to create a new thread as the information is already here in this one. This also goes to the purpose of this info thread, as stated MULTIPLE times now. Once these animals are sold and gone, the ads will be deleted. Future buyers should still be aware that Travis does not always practice quarantining new acquisitions, and thus they will find this thread and can make up their own minds on how they wish to proceed, and ask questions of Travis that they would like answered prior to doing so. This topic could not have been brought up anywhere else on Fauna without leaving out the business name or people involved, which defeats the purpose of discussing it. Hence why it is an INFORMATION thread on the BOI.

How many more people need to suffer devastating losses before people in this hobby will get it through their heads that quarantine is NOT something to be taken lightly or skipped altogether? How can anyone be so cavalier with the health and safety of OTHER people's collections and livelihoods?

How is this harsh? I was voicing a concern and asking a very valid, general question.

 

[KelliH]

Read the below thread, Jen, and then come back here and say there are no threads here involving then with sick animals that they don't quarantine. I'm downright shocked that after all that happened with you that you would choose to support a wholesaler and flesh peddler rather than a good breeder.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157063&highlight=outback+reptiles
while you're at it read this one too
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139157&highlight=outback+reptiles

As far as this thread goes, I would have no problem dealing with him at all. His honesty in the ad was rather refreshing.

 

[Lair of Dragons]

Jen,
I have had several breeders email me and PM me about this post...all are saying the same thing....and after revieming some of your other post I would have to agree with them...

It seems like you are one of those people who are out to get anyone who deals in reptiles.
As far as people finding this post with a bio search on my name "I could care less"..but if I was you I would be concerned about what they may think of you when your name appears in it. How many people have to get on here and tell you to stop, your not proving anything except what type of person you are...your only hurting yourself and your to blind to see it.

I don't mind BIO's, most of the time they can relay good information that some people need but you seem to have forgoten that. Your thread here started off with some type of purpose and you kept directing it right back at me, you just don't know when to quit, but hey I don't mind because if anything you have helped me more than hurt...sorry you didn't get the results you were looking for.
Travis
Lair of Dragons

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

It seems like you are one of those people who are out to get anyone who deals in reptiles.

I don't perceive that at all. If she were, she a) wouldn't have any reptiles and b) wouldn't be purchasing reptiles from anyone.

I think quarantine and the spread of disease is a sensitive spot for Jen. I'm sure it would be for any of us if we had gone through what she had. Through her eyes, it's probably horrifying to see someone introducing a new male within days of receipt to a collection and openly admitting no quarantine was practiced on a number of animals.

Would I ever post a thread like this? No. But I appreciate that it's here on the BOI because I would have had no idea about your quarantine practices if it hadn't.

 

[SPJ]

I think quarantine and the spread of disease is a sensitive spot for Jen.

She really should have thought twice about buying from Ian (Josh is just the salesman) since his stock is exposed to all kinds of pathogens (just look at that kinked, ulcerated caramel BP they have listed).
IMO, if you were really that concerned with QT and disease, you would never come within 5 miles of Ian's animals.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

She really should have thought twice about buying from Ian (Josh is just the salesman) since his stock is exposed to all kinds of pathogens (just look at that kinked, ulcerated caramel BP they have listed).
IMO, if you were really that concerned with QT and disease, you would never come within 5 miles of Ian's animals.

I don't disagree with that. That Caramel he posted was horrifying.

 

[Python Dreams]

Jen,
As far as Outback goes... They are importers... They dont practice good quarantine practices from what has been posted on other threads. Did I say they are importers? As far as I am concerned, that would be one of the last places I would have expected you to look for stock. For an Albino? You picked an importers business, to start rebuilding your collection, that has a worse reputation for what you are crusading against here. Amazing!!!!!!Now how ridiculous would a thread be warning people about your stock, because we dont want anybody to forget that you started with stock that had likely been near fresh, unquarantined imports.

Its one thing to make a BOI thread and mention someones quarantine practices (which I still feel is ridiculous since it is in his ad), but to place the weight of every deadly reptile virus in a thread about a particular person is straight up rude. Putting a business name that has no reputation of selling sick animals right out in the open like they are spreading disease, while you have the knowledge that it happens weekly with every level of breeders (right up to the top) at reptile shows is crazy to me. This went from an info thread about Lair of Dragons to an info thread about diseases and the wiping out of someones collection, etc... In an info thread about a breeder who has done none of that it is straight up rude.

And for picking up stock from an importer that might not practice quarantine, just because of your past business dealings (wasnt your reptile past a nightmare?), makes you so amazingly hypocritical that I cannot even believe it. Which is what eventually got me to post since you wouldnt stop posting deisease info in a business info thread.

IMHO, you should be more particular about where you get your stock than anyone. And from this ridiculous thread you started, I learned that I would rather pick up snakes from LOD than from someone that gets there stock from an importer, meaning you. Something to think about before you go crusading to save the reptile world, when your own backyard is questionable.

 

[Lair of Dragons]

Steph,
If you would have read the whole post and not just skipped through it you would have seen clearly on Page 2....5th post my quarantine practices. But because I ran an add making buyers aware about these particular animals everyone makes it sound like I drove to the shore, pulled them off a boat from Afica and ran home and stuck them in my collection.
Or that I went to a show and bought them from an importer and did the same, or from a huge breeder with a bad rep....none of the above applies.

Do you go to shows....do you work shows....do you buy from shows..do you sell snakes...do you buy from breeders with good reps and bad reps.....of course you do, we all do....

If I buy from you and you are trusted in your collection that there is nothing wrong with your snakes and you stand behind them is there any reason why my purchase should have to go through a strict quarantine or even a moderate quarantine. If so why? Because I am suppose to....according to who.
Every snake you buy from someone you have to ask yourself the question...should I or shouldn't I quarantine. Just because you have done business with someone in the past and had good luck with their reptiles in your collection should you treat your next purchase form them any different. Its a judgement call...
Now every snake that is bought and sold you really don't know the story behind it and how the seller got it. You trust in their words as a buyer and you decide from there. Then once you purchase you decide what to do with your new snake or snakes.

Jen acts like I am the first person in the whole industry that didn't quarantine a purchase. Its done every day all over the world. Yes some pay the price for their decissions when it comes to quarantine but it is their decission to make.
I wanted the potential buyer to know what he is getting with this purchase or purchases because I didn't want them to assume anything different.....looking back at all this now I would have been better to run my ad not stating anything about the quarantine of the snakes except the price, weight and morph then I wouldn't be where I am now. I have bought and sold a lot of Dragons and Snakes over the last 5 years and a lot of people know of me and my practices and I just wanted to make a potential new customer aware of these particual snakes and that my quarantine practice decission was different on these than normal....
Travis
Lair of Dragons

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

If you would have read the whole post and not just skipped through it you would have seen clearly on Page 2....5th post my quarantine practices. But because I ran an add making buyers aware about these particular animals everyone makes it sound like I drove to the shore, pulled them off a boat from Afica and ran home and stuck them in my collection. Or that I went to a show and bought them from an importer and did the same, or from a huge breeder with a bad rep....none of the above applies.

Getting snarky with me isn't help your cause here. For your information, I did read the whole thread. That doesn't change the fact that you put a male into your collection for breeding within days of receipt and are selling parts of this group purchased without any quarantine measures in place. Who did the animals come from that you trust so much (or did I miss that somewhere here)?

If I buy from you and you are trusted in your collection that there is nothing wrong with your snakes and you stand behind them is there any reason why my purchase should have to go through a strict quarantine or even a moderate quarantine. If so why? Because I am suppose to....according to who.

Actually, I believe every animal brought into a collection should be quarantined no matter who it comes from and it clearly states that on my website. Not only have I watched Jen's collection downfall, I have a friend who lost her entire Cornsnake collection to crypto because she trusted a fellow breeder to take her adults on breeding loan while she was away.

 

[Lair of Dragons]

Steph,
I am not getting snarky with you as you put it....I am not fighting for any cause..just confussed I thought this was a BIO and not a bad guy thread......what I do with the snakes I purchase is up to me....how I advertise them is up to me...and who I buy from is none of your business so you didn't miss anything. Not trying to start a war with you I am just over this thread and have better things to do with my time then mess with this.

As I stated before I am sorry for problems Jen had with her collection...not only sucks for her but the collection as well. But if you want to talk about QUARANTINE then lets do it...If you want to talk about me then this is in the wrong area. If I was new to Fauna and I ran across this BIO looking for info...and reviewed all these pages I would probably give up on ever wanting a snake or for that fact even advertising or asking a question on this site if I had snakes and wasnt sure what to do.
So either arrest, me charge me or let me go..........
Travis
Lair of Dragons

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

...what I do with the snakes I purchase is up to me....how I advertise them is up to me...and who I buy from is none of your business so you didn't miss anything.

Do you see why that doesn't work here? You're insisting that whomever these snakes were purchased from by you is guaranteed to be disease free and you didn't feel the need to quarantine...Yet you won't disclose who this person is? We are supposed to trust your word as opposed to verifying ourselves their origin? Not trying to start an argument in the least, just pointing out the flaws.

Also you did disclose who your purchased them from in your ad. Victor Owens. So that answers that question.

But if you want to talk about QUARANTINE then lets do it...If you want to talk about me then this is in the wrong area.

You are incorrect. This is a BOI Info thread about you, so yes, you are a subject in the thread.

Honestly, if you're done with the thread and have said your peace, just stop responding. If you're not worried about it, just let it go at this point. I'm sure you'll have little trouble reselling that group regardless, your prices are more then fair (I had been eying up the Albino pair myself).

 

[Dennis Hultman]

If you want to talk about me then this is in the wrong area.

Actually, this is the only place to discuss you. Regardless if you like it or not you were using your wife's handle for business presently and in the past so you have only yourself to blame for any connection in the title.

When someone starts a BOI thread it's about the individuals involved and not just one particular instance. So, If down the road a buyer would like to post something positive about a transaction with you, they are more than welcome to use this thread. Anything negative as well. So while we or some of us can disagree that the reasons why any particular thread was started, future responses to this thread aren't off topic as long as they deal with you.

With that, I'm going to briefly touch on the other subject in this thread about you that Nick brought up.




Travis

Polasian,
As I stated a few post back I have made mistakes along the way but the info you are bringing up is close to 4 years old. I took some bad advice back then and was just starting out in the dragon business. I learned from it in more than one way. People make mistakes its how we learn. If you want to judge me from what I did four years ago then that is your choice and anyone who reads this post.
I bet it you dug up the past on almost everyone in here as you spent so much time on me you would find I am not the only one.
I will not deny any of the info posted above.
Travis Delaney
Lair of Dragons

While I commend you on your honesty here and I really do. You could have just denied it but you were straightforward and I think that shows some good character now. The fact remands that Nick showed some discretion because of the time between moderators discovering your shill accounts and your posts under multiple user names giving your wife and your company false positive reviews. So again your responsible for dragging your wife into this and she is responsible because she knew those glowing recommendations under her name were lies that you guys were posting.

Again, I might just let that go at this point and time but you continued with this

This is the exact reason I faded away from this site for so long....the BS witch hunts...thanks Craig I couldn't have put it any better.

JUST SO EVERYONE KNOWS...I have have been communicating with Rich(webslave) about setting up a account with my name and keeping my business name the same. You can go to his page and read my post for the reasons if you so desire. Not doing it to try to cover anything up, as I stated to him in responses to my questions.

If you want to know why I post under Jodi name...its all there. Husbands and wifes run businesses together do they all need separate account to preform the same business. She has not been involved in this business for a long, long time.
I have sold 100's of dragons over the past few years....dig up dirt on those transactions if you want, chances are you won't find much if anything at all. I have had dealing were I went way out of my guarantee guidelines to make customers happy. I started out on the wrong foot and changed my business model and the way I treat my customers along the way. LIKE I SAID BEFORE..."If you are not getting better you are getting worse"
Now I will try to get the new account set up tonight if not tomorrow...just walked through the door after a look week at work.
Travis Delaney
Lair of Dragons

You then to proceed to tell the members of this board that you left this site a few years ago because of the witch hunts here? A few years ago you were running around here posting under different names posting these recommendations for yourself

I justt wanted to let every one know I purchase 2 bearded dragons form lair of dragons. Everything was great. Jodi answered all my emails super fast and even called me to explain some questions I had. The babies arrived in excellent condition and she gave me a terrific discount on the two. Since i am new to dragons she has kept in contact with me daily to make sure everything is okay, and has even told me I can call anytime day or night if I have questions or concerns. I was referred to her by a friend who also purchase from them and she just loves her new dragon. Thank you Jodi and Lair Of Dragons for making this experience very easy and thank you for the pretty dragons.

Chyenne

I don't usually post on any kind of forum but since this is for feedback I thought I would. I also have to agree with Ms. Chyenne. I gotten a rescued python from Jodi at Lair Of Dragons, not to long ago. She invited me to her house to pick it up and I have to say she takes pride in the care of her reptiles. She goes the extra mile to make sure all rescues are in perfect condition before they leave her. She had them in beautiful, clean setups and all her reptiles were very healthy. I have to give her credit for quitting her Job to take care of these full-time. Keep up the good work.

Stevie Mast

Yes, I have heard of them...I have purchased two dragons from them within the last year. I was able to drive to their house and pick out the ones I wanted both times. You can tell they take great care of their dragons and every tank was very clean...I have future plans to buy from them because they always respond to my emails and phone calls a.s.a.p. I know they ship all over the US and they are trying to do everything right and not become just another breeder.
Jay

Those witch hunts happen because of people like you and what you "were" doing. You were the problem here not those who were exposing people like you. Wouldn't you agree, Chyenne? So don't sit there and knock this site for hounding people like you that were deceiving this community. If it wasn't for the behavior from people like you that were dishonest on this board there would be no need for the "witch hunts" you are describing.

And another thing, You stated you changed your business model. Well that's great but you are over forty years old. You might be somewhat understanding of a young person starting out doing junk like this but you were in your mid to late thirties and thought nothing of it. I'm glad you changed your business model from going around pretending to be a woman and others giving yourself a pat on the back but don't go blaming this board for unwarranted with hunts when you were part of the environment that created the need.

That's all I have to say about that. Good luck to you.

 

[deborahbroadus]

The bolded section is stated so eloquently.

Actually, this is the only place to discuss you. Regardless if you like it or not you were using your wife's handle for business presently and in the past so you have only yourself to blame for any connection in the title.

When someone starts a BOI thread it's about the individuals involved and not just one particular instance. So, If down the road a buyer would like to post something positive about a transaction with you, they are more than welcome to use this thread. Anything negative as well. So while we or some of us can disagree that the reasons why any particular thread was started, future responses to this thread aren't off topic as long as they deal with you.

With that, I'm going to briefly touch on the other subject in this thread about you that Nick brought up.




Travis

While I commend you on your honesty here and I really do. You could have just denied it but you were straightforward and I think that shows some good character now. The fact remands that Nick showed some discretion because of the time between moderators discovering your shill accounts and your posts under multiple user names giving your wife and your company false positive reviews. So again your responsible for dragging your wife into this and she is responsible because she knew those glowing recommendations under her name were lies that you guys were posting.

Again, I might just let that go at this point and time but you continued with this


You then to proceed to tell the members of this board that you left this site a few years ago because of the witch hunts here? A few years ago you were running around here posting under different names posting these recommendations for yourself







Those witch hunts happen because of people like you and what you "were" doing. You were the problem here not those who were exposing people like you. Wouldn't you agree, Chyenne? So don't sit there and knock this site for hounding people like you that were deceiving this community. If it wasn't for the behavior from people like you that were dishonest on this board there would be no need for the "witch hunts" you are describing.

And another thing, You stated you changed your business model. Well that's great but you are over forty years old. You might be somewhat understanding of a young person starting out doing junk like this but you were in your mid to late thirties and thought nothing of it. I'm glad you changed your business model from going around pretending to be a woman and others giving yourself a pat on the back but don't go blaming this board for unwarranted with hunts when you were part of the environment that created the need.

That's all I have to say about that. Good luck to you.

 

[David Reid]

I agree with Tom. This thread is like a person who went on a diet and lost 40 lbs. telling every fat person why they should not be eating that hamburger. Give it a rest, and I know who is on my do not buy from list based on who THEY bought from.

Dave

 

[gsrept]

I honestly do not see the issue. How many people here have a seperate building at there house to put animals into quarintine? this is the only true way to due it and i would be willing to bet with all the people on this site it would be maybe 1%. instead of using your energy to persecute someone that may or may not be in the wrong. focus it towards the people who flip animals or buy stolen animals. what about all the individuals who have illegally kept species of reptiles. IMO this thread has been drawn out a lot longer than it needed to be. if you are all really worried about quarintining why in the world would you ever buy from outback or from any of the shows out there they are a breeding ground for viruses and parasites. But we all still go to them and buy from them so we are all guilty of this for god sake a moderator of this site did the same thing put a newly bought snake in with a female where is the post on him.

 

[Cp3_Pythons]

In the end its HIS choice their HIS animals. Okay I understand that you want to warn people of the dangers of not quarantining animals Via what happened to your collection...
In the end yes some people would like to know things like this But its clear that Travis is being honest about what he has for sale and that alone speaks LOUDLY. Yes everyone can make there own desicion on new additions to there collection and Craig is correct a MOD recently also admitted to the same thing your complaining about Travis.... So why don't the Op start a Info/Bad Guy thread on the Mod as well If I rember correctly it was HHMoore POST AWAY.... These whole thread has gone farther than I personally belive it should have gone and Outbacks quarantine practice's more than likely AINT THE BEST I mean they Buy entire clutchs Import and re-sell Imports as soon as they come in... And I've PERSONALLY witnessed them Pick things up at Show's and Place it on the table for sale right then...
Your Albino you just picked up was probally at one of the shows right next to Someones collection they bought and on the other side the Bush Babies they have...
Now if you practiced what you preach so much today you wouldn't have lost your collection Now would you have? In all honesty I belive that if that wouldn't have happened you wouldn't have started this thread On Travis