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Python Hybrids

C

Cp3_Pythons

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I know some are not fond of hybrid's yet some are...

I was wondering if anyone would care to help explain or help me understand the genetics behind them... As for genetics Im speaking on crossing morphs between two species (Ball Python X Burm Python or Ball Python X Retic Python)
I was wondering if there was a way to transfer genes between two diff species. And how one would go or try to go about and be successful in doing so Say I want to take the Woma Gene found in Ball Pythons and try to place the Woma gene on a Burmese Python and the Labby Pattern or even the green pattern on a Ball python Yes I understand that it will be extremely hard to do and a very time consuming project that may or may not be successful.

As always any and all feedback is greatly appreciated

Thank You
 
Cp3_Pythons said:
I know some are not fond of hybrid's yet some are...

I was wondering if anyone would care to help explain or help me understand the genetics behind them... As for genetics Im speaking on crossing morphs between two species (Ball Python X Burm Python or Ball Python X Retic Python)
I was wondering if there was a way to transfer genes between two diff species. And how one would go or try to go about and be successful in doing so Say I want to take the Woma Gene found in Ball Pythons and try to place the Woma gene on a Burmese Python and the Labby Pattern or even the green pattern on a Ball python Yes I understand that it will be extremely hard to do and a very time consuming project that may or may not be successful.

As always any and all feedback is greatly appreciated

Thank You
Click to expand...


there are some morph hybrids, like the golden child reticxball that NERD has, or the spider carpall, but as far as i know the only way to tell is to try it. some genes arnt compatible with other species (such as the retic clark albino with a burm albino as they are different types of albino) youd get better results sticking to co-doms/doms as you can visually see if it had an effect on the babies more so then recessives (like green burms)

personally, if you were really set on doing this, im recommending you breed a male pinstripe to a female dwarf burm. its a nice starting point, you dont have to deal with the huge size difference, and itll be rather easy to see if the pinstripe dom gene passed on to babys.
 
Good point Tyler It would be sweet to see a Pinstripe Burm... and thats the morph I would use to cross over or try to anyway...
I think it would be pretty wicked to have a Burm with the pattern of a pinstripe.
So more less with the recessive traits its more of a gamble with slimmer odd's of hitting your mark??
 
Cp3_Pythons said:
Good point Tyler It would be sweet to see a Pinstripe Burm... and thats the morph I would use to cross over or try to anyway...
I think it would be pretty wicked to have a Burm with the pattern of a pinstripe.
So more less with the recessive traits its more of a gamble with slimmer odd's of hitting your mark??
Click to expand...

its not so much of slimmer odds, as having to raise the babies to even see if the recessive gene is compatible. and even then, you're still dealing with het to het breeding so it COULD be compatible, and you just got the shaft and didn't get the green burmxball (just an example) at least with a dom/co-dom you see immediate results.
 
Gotcha I guess thats more reasonable... But I want a Green Ball Python LoL
I guess while working on the co doms and doms that could be a longer time goal...

Second question... two diffrent species means two diffrent breeding needs how could one get around this and be successful in getting them to mate?
 
Cp3_Pythons said:
Gotcha I guess thats more reasonable... But I want a Green Ball Python LoL
I guess while working on the co doms and doms that could be a longer time goal...

Second question... two diffrent species means two diffrent breeding needs how could one get around this and be successful in getting them to mate?
Click to expand...

different doesn't always mean radically different. a male burm will breed just about anything. :rofl: you might have better luck with a male dwarf burm and a female pinstripe (again, just an example). while i dont have much knowledge on hybrids, only thing i can tell you is try it. some females might be receptive, some might not. its a game of luck (as with any breeding) as far as i can tell.
 
Utta said:
different doesn't always mean radically different. a male burm will breed just about anything. :rofl: you might have better luck with a male dwarf burm and a female pinstripe (again, just an example). while i dont have much knowledge on hybrids, only thing i can tell you is try it. some females might be receptive, some might not. its a game of luck (as with any breeding) as far as i can tell.
Click to expand...


I know that on the male burms having two of them now that are in breeding mode and its actually pretty funny to watch them roam around the cage when there in breed mode
Hmmm more choice's.... A pinstripe Burm would be sweet... What do you think??
 
Sounds pretty juvenile to make a female ball python endure breeding from a male Retic or Burm. If they don't end up killing her she will very likely sustain injuries from no other reason than their sexual organs not being complete compatible.
 
boaterr said:
Sounds pretty juvenile to make a female ball python endure breeding from a male Retic or Burm. If they don't end up killing her she will very likely sustain injuries from no other reason than their sexual organs not being complete compatible.
Click to expand...

perhaps you missed the "dwarf" repeated MANY times there Terrance?
 
Utta said:
perhaps you missed the "dwarf" repeated MANY times there Terrance?
Click to expand...

Yup its there If I know Tyler and we've spoken several time's his passion for his animals is true and there health is top concern... And if a Dwarf wsnt available Id place a Male Ball In with a Female Burm
 
Cp3_Pythons said:
Yup its there If I know Tyler and we've spoken several time's his passion for his animals is true and there health is top concern... And if a Dwarf wsnt available Id place a Male Ball In with a Female Burm
Click to expand...

thanks Clarence.

it'd have to be a female dwarf burm, mostly because the male ball would look like a tack next to a female burm :rofl: (but if i remember right, your pin is a male anyway, so that would have been the plan all along?)
 
Utta said:
perhaps you missed the "dwarf" repeated MANY times there Terrance?
Click to expand...
No I did not, if you understand breeding than you know that it does not matter if it is a dwarf or not there reproductive organs are different which is why every so often someone from hybrid haven comes on a site and ask why his Female Ball Python received massive vaginal tearing from his hybrid pairing.


Cp3_Pythons said:
Yup its there If I know Tyler and we've spoken several time's his passion for his animals is true and there health is top concern... And if a Dwarf wsnt available Id place a Male Ball In with a Female Burm
Click to expand...
So your back up plan is to put a male ball in the same cage with a female burm that is sexual mature enough to breed? How long have you been keeping snakes because a sexual mature female burm is a massive animal? Your ball python would probably be crushed in minutes. Also most of female giants are not very fond of being forced to breed with other snake species, they will often kill the small annoyance.

Here is one of my Sexual mature Retics and she will definetly kill anything that tried to breed with her other than a male retic.

P1000731.jpg
 
boaterr said:
No I did not, if you understand breeding than you know that it does not matter if it is a dwarf or not there reproductive organs are different which is why every so often someone from hybrid haven comes on a site and ask why his Female Ball Python received massive vaginal tearing from his hybrid pairing.



So your back up plan is to put a male ball in the same cage with a female burm that is sexual mature enough to breed? How long have you been keeping snakes because a sexual mature female burm is a massive animal? Your ball python would probably be crushed in minutes. Also most of female giants are not very fond of being forced to breed with other snake species, they will often kill the small annoyance.

Here is one of my Sexual mature Retics and she will definetly kill anything that tried to breed with her other than a male retic.

P1000731.jpg
Click to expand...

care to explain this then?

8629175_orig.jpg
 
So... Are you looking at the end product or what it takes to achieve it? Who knows what exactly was done to produce that snake, I assume it was a small male retic*female ball. I never said it was not possible but a lot of people have injured or killed their snakes trying.

I probably would not use nerd a source of ethical breeding practices, the whole lie they said about Spider Ball Pythons and why they wobble is still pretty fresh along with other ethical and business issues...
 
boaterr said:
So... Are you looking at the end product or what it takes to achieve it? Who knows what exactly was done to produce that snake, I assume it was a small male retic*female ball. I never said it was not possible but a lot of people have injured or killed their snakes trying.

I probably would not use nerd a source of ethical breeding practices, the whole lie they said about Spider Ball Pythons and why they wobble is still pretty fresh along with other ethical and business issues...
Click to expand...

im looking at both. it can be done, and has before. in fact the only way WAS to try. it still is. there are hybrids out there that havent been made yet, but im willing to bet that people are trying as we sit here.

even a small male retic (absolute youngest male that would be able to breed) is still going to be a danger to the female. there is risk in any breeding for the female AND male. (look at Diem (ShadowAceD)'s post in the boa discussion forum. but its a risk a lot of us make every year by doing pairings.
 
And secondly yes there's a chance in any breeding even same species breeding that may or can lead to one or the other being hurt
The thing is knowing your animals and knowing when its time to pull them out and say enough is enough
Always put the animals first and the rest will come
 
Utta said:
im looking at both. it can be done, and has before. in fact the only way WAS to try. it still is. there are hybrids out there that havent been made yet, but im willing to bet that people are trying as we sit here.

even a small male retic (absolute youngest male that would be able to breed) is still going to be a danger to the female. there is risk in any breeding for the female AND male. (look at Diem (ShadowAceD)'s post in the boa discussion forum. but its a risk a lot of us make every year by doing pairings.
Click to expand...

What are you actually trying to gain from your pairings? It is pretty obvious that no amount of reason will change your mind because you are dead set on your pairings. Just think, many snake owners with a few snakes have tried to engage in the hybridization you desire. I am talking about expert breeders that have produced thousands of animals and novices alike, and still we only have a VERY small amount of viable offspring. Even if you are successful serious Reticulated Python and Burmese Python owners will look at the offspring at just a bunch of useless mutts. The hybrid Retic that NERD produced is rarely mentioned on respected forums, and when it is the overwhelming majority look at it as unethical breeding at its best.
 
Cp3_Pythons said:
And secondly yes there's a chance in any breeding even same species breeding that may or can lead to one or the other being hurt
The thing is knowing your animals and knowing when its time to pull them out and say enough is enough
Always put the animals first and the rest will come
Click to expand...

That argument does not hold water because you are trying to compare to extremely different situations. Based on what you guys are saying I doubt if either of you have actually bred ANY big snakes. A normal breeding is actually very safe as long as the owners abide by normal breeding practices. I honestly do not care that much what you guys do with your snakes, it does not change the fact that my adult Anacondas and Retics are healthy. I was just putting you guys on notice that your breeding ideas are flawed and dangerous to your animals. Take Care.
 
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