Bad Guy Robert Ringhoff of PA,

[SuperMorph]

Everyone beware of Robert Ringhoff of East Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania! I just made a snake deal with him and is the WORST deal that I have been involved in so far in the few years that I have been a ball python enthusiast. Robert was supposed to sell me 16 ball pythons total for $2,000. I thought it was a good deal, but they always say that if a deal is too good to be true it usually is.

This is what I was supposed to get from him:

0.3 Normals 1800g each
0.1 Granite 1800g
1.1 Ghost 800g/1780g
1.2 Pastel 1000g/1060g/1200g
1.1 Cinny 600g/1000g
1.0 Spider 700g
1.1 Mojave 210g/260g
1.1 Lesser 800g/1000g

Looks like a great deal, right? Here is what I am missing:

2 female normals 1800g
1 female Granite 1800g
1 male Ghost 800g
1 female Ghost 1780
2 female pastels 1060g, 1200g
1 male mojave 210g
1 female mojave 160-260g
1 male lesser 800g
1 female lesser 1000g

I did receive two other pastels that are both males, two supposedly het ghosts that are both males, and a normal male less than 600g. I paid with paypal and thought it would be a great way to get my money back if such a problem occurred. I called paypal before making a payment and they said that I am protected as long as I don't send the money to him as a "gift". Now that I have a problem, paypal closed the case in his favor saying I didn't send the money correctly even though I did it under their advisement. Now there is an appeal to the bs decision and paypal also gave me some links for the internet crimes unit and so forth. Now I will start sending info through that route to hopefully get some better outcome if paypal screws me over, too.

I originally came in contact with Robert when he purchased a spider ball from me a few months ago. He seems like a nice guy, but will annoy the hell out of you with many long phone conversations and short emails with no punctuation. He also blames most or all of his problems or misfortunes on his wife.

All in all, STAY AWAY FROM ROBERT RINGHOFF!!! I will be posting emails that I have with Robert shortly. Oh, the snake list of what I was supposed to receive doesn't match the one that he fabricated to paypal this morning. He also won't take any of my phone calls and won't even set up his voicemail on his phone.

 

[Utta]

post all the proof you can please, the list of snakes he told paypal, what you were supposed to receive, everything.

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

$2K on the original list is a straight up scam.. Bet you won't do that again?? Sorry to be mean.. Gettin' tired of all the stuff I see on here.... Four of the snake's on that list are worth the $2K.. 12-13 for free?? C'mon now.. No sympathy outta Az.. Sorry my friend..

 

[SuperMorph]

Here is Robert's original list of ball pythons. Everything looks clear to me, no hets, no male normals. Then he added a pair of lessers over the phone.

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 17:13:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Robert Ringhoff
To: [email protected]

Ok this is what i have spider m 700g $150 cinnine m 600g $100 cinnie f 1000g
$100 mojave m 210g $100 mojave f 260g $150 pastel m 1000g $100 pastel f 1060g
$200 norm f 1800g $100each there 3 granite f 1800g $100 ghost m 800g $100 ghost
f 1780g $150

Another email

Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 19:27:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Robert Ringhoff
Subject: Re: Snakes
To: [email protected]

the snakes you have in the list is right and the lessers as well but it would be
for $2000 not $1900 i will send some pic
________________________________
From: "[email protected]"
To: Robert Ringhoff
Sent: Mon, February 14, 2011 1:42:21 PM
Subject: Snakes

Rob-

Can you send me a few pics of some of the snakes? Mainly pics of the females is
what I am interested in when you get a chance. My other friend does want the
female mojave like I knew he would. Lucky for him that he is working overtime
right now to pay for her.

Thanks,
Jason


This is a list of everything just for our record:
0.3 Normals 1800g each
0.1 Granite 1800g
1.1 Ghost 800g/1780g
1.2 Pastel 1000g/1060g/1200g
1.1 Cinny 600g/1000g
1.0 Spider 700g
1.1 Mojave 210g/260g
All 14 bp's for $1600 shipped

Possibly add 1.1 Lesser 800g/1000g for a total of $1900 shipped for 16 bp's. I
hope everything works out. I am going to have to move fast with the males to
get some of my money back to pay some bills and get a rodent food order put in.



Here is another email that he sent me after he was screwing around and not sending me the snakes through Delta. He was mad when I went to Paypal to get my money back. I originally was supposed to receive the snakes on Monday, then it was Tuesday. Then I didn't receive anything and started the process to get my money back.

Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 19:43:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Robert Ringhoff
Subject: Re: Snakes
To: [email protected]

Ok the plane is 3872 it will come in at 1131pm i did get a e-mail from paypal
you need to stop what you did thay took money out of my paypal so you need to
stop the dispute friday march 4th you will have the snakes thanks
________________________________
From: "[email protected]"
To: Robert Ringhoff
Sent: Mon, February 14, 2011 1:42:21 PM
Subject: Snakes

Rob-

Can you send me a few pics of some of the snakes? Mainly pics of the females is
what I am interested in when you get a chance. My other friend does want the
female mojave like I knew he would. Lucky for him that he is working overtime
right now to pay for her.

Thanks,
Jason


This is a list of everything just for our record:
0.3 Normals 1800g each
0.1 Granite 1800g
1.1 Ghost 800g/1780g
1.2 Pastel 1000g/1060g/1200g
1.1 Cinny 600g/1000g
1.0 Spider 700g
1.1 Mojave 210g/260g
All 14 bp's for $1600 shipped

Possibly add 1.1 Lesser 800g/1000g for a total of $1900 shipped for 16 bp's. I
hope everything works out. I am going to have to move fast with the males to
get some of my money back to pay some bills and get a rodent food order put in.



The pics that Robert sent were some of the crappiest pics that I have received. He said the pics were of some of the snakes that he had put on the scale so I could see their actual weight. Some didn't show anything except a small part of the body. His excuse for that was that he had problems loading them on the computer. Only one pic showed the snake and the weight. How can that be screwed up? He did take a pic of one of the mojaves and I didn't even receive either of the mojaves that I should.

 

[SuperMorph]

I wouldn't say that you sound mean or unsympathetic, Tom, but you are making it sound like it's my fault that Paypal isn't giving me the refund. They had already taken the money away or froze it from Robert and I think that is what made him decide to screw me more. Plus, I don't think Robert is smart enough to tell male from female, I think he just takes people's word for it. He supposedly just bought this group of snakes when it had others with it and he was selling off the stuff his wife supposedly wouldn't let him keep because his numbers are getting too high.

Half of those snakes can't be sold for more than $100 each anyway unless you go by your over pricing method. I am sure you would sell a male ghost for $800, but I sold six this year and they all were $75 to $205 each. I just can't do the mark up that you do. Fortunately, I have not purchased any snakes from you because you sound like a jerk. I am sure you have never been cheated in this business.

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

I wouldn't say that you sound mean or unsympathetic, Tom, but you are making it sound like it's my fault that Paypal isn't giving me the refund. They had already taken the money away or froze it from Robert and I think that is what made him decide to screw me more. Plus, I don't think Robert is smart enough to tell male from female, I think he just takes people's word for it. He supposedly just bought this group of snakes when it had others with it and he was selling off the stuff his wife supposedly wouldn't let him keep because his numbers are getting too high.

Half of those snakes can't be sold for more than $100 each anyway unless you go by your over pricing method. I am sure you would sell a male ghost for $800, but I sold six this year and they all were $75 to $205 each. I just can't do the mark up that you do. Fortunately, I have not purchased any snakes from you because you sound like a jerk. I am sure you have never been cheated in this business.

Hey Jason; go for what ya know!! If you think that original list was worth $2k; I'll come right out and say it; short shelf life fer ya my man..

And..... Just for what it's worth for your future; buying snake's and reptile's is scarier than doing a used car tranny.. Think about for a bit and you'll you'll get my arrogant drift... Sorry it had to happen to ya.. But; I'll tell ya what; anybody who's done this for a minute or ten or 20 years would tell ya this; ya ain't getting that original list for $2k.. Once again; sorry..

 

[bullies&balls]

Not sure wha tur point on this is TP. The man paid for said animals, didn't get said animals and is posting the problem. Period, end of point. That is what this site is for. Did it look like a "to good to be true group" yes it did, but that is not what ths thread is about.

 

[SuperMorph]

I have said it before and I will say it again, if it is too good to be true it usually is. I know that was supposed to be a great deal that doesn't come hardly at all. I have purchased many animals many times and there has been a problem or two. The difference is that I was able to work with the person to resolve. This person right away would not take my calls, not even for me to let him know that the snakes arrived alive. He already knew how he was going to screw me over. The over all main issue is that I paid with Paypal and they are not backing me up like they should. I don't know what Robert allegedly said to them, but they have not released that info to me in writing, only on the phone and limited. Paypal told me I am covered as long as I don't send him the money as a gift. I did not send the money as a gift and they are not backing me up like they should.

Tom, I don't expect you to reveal how many people you have made a killing on selling animals under any circumstances or how many great package deals you have purchased to flip. This wasn't my first snake deal by any means and I don't necessarily consider myself to be that much of an amateur. I have purchased $2000 worth of snakes for less than $700 with absolutely no problems; there are more 'deals' that I can pointlessly list as well. I am in this not just for a hobby, but hoping to have a nice, small at home business. I would imagine that you and I would have similar goals in respect to the industry, but trying to bash on me because I am essentially trying to warn people of a scam artist is ridiculous to say the least.

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

$2K on the original list is a straight up scam.. Bet you won't do that again?? Sorry to be mean.. Gettin' tired of all the stuff I see on here.... Four of the snake's on that list are worth the $2K.. 12-13 for free?? C'mon now.. No sympathy outta Az.. Sorry my friend..

Pretty cut n dry?? Did you wanna question me and my reputation now or what??

 

[Paige n' James]

Jason,
I saw where he sent you a few of the snakes. Do you have any kind of response from him to why he didn't send the rest?

I saw he bought a spider from you was that from this site?
Is he active here? Have you told him about this thread?

V/R Paige

 

[SuperMorph]

He originally bought a spider from me a few months ago from kingsnake, that's how he came to know of me. He won't answer any calls from me at all and won't set up his voicemail to get any messages. I can't tell him about the thread since he won't talk to me. Emails to him will get the same chicken shit response. Before, he would call me up to five times a day, maybe more. Now since Tuesday, I have briefly talked to him only two times and he wasn't happy because the funds were taken from his account. He is like Tom and has an excuse for everything.

 

[scaledverts]

Pretty cut n dry?? Did you wanna question me and my reputation now or what??

So your response to someone that got scammed and is informing the community about it is: "Sucks to be you. It's your own fault and you shouldn't have been so gullible. Oh yeah, and I told you so."?????? Way to try to actually help with something constructive!? We get it, you wouldn't have made the purchase, you are better than the OP at purchasing snakes. How about contributing something that ACTUALLY is constructive instead of destructive!




To the OP, send the person a link to this thread. Also, please post any email communication between the two of you as ask for earlier.

 

[Paige n' James]

Jason,
Please ignore any negativity about your purchase because it is one many of us would have made if we had the cash that is.... : )

Thank you so much for coming forward to let us know what a bad guy Robert is! I really hope he fixes his mistakes. I hope you all can come to some kind of agreement on the males
that were supposed to be females and the missing snakes.

 

[SuperMorph]

He purposely kept several of the snakes. As far as the male/female part of it, I am not sure. Either way he won't accept any of my phone calls. He planned this. That is why I was glad to use paypal, but they are not doing their job to let me send back this junk so I can get my money back. I should know the outcome soon and I don't have a good feeling about it. I know crooks have gotten away with worse.

Thanks for the back up. I am not going to let ignorant, snobby people get to me. The guy doesn't even know who I am and tries to talk trash and put me down because I am warning people about a bad person. He has already lost at least a few possible future customers for acting that way.

 

[PAVLOVK1025]

Thanks for alerting us of the potential threat. Hopefully he doesn't scam anybody else. Typically PayPal won't do anything because he can provide a tracking number/shipment record. Thats the "secret statement" that he gave them which is going to make getting your money back difficult.

BUT

Come on. Did you really think you were gonna get those 16 snakes for $2000 bucks? Seriously?

Red flag!

Some didn't show anything except a small part of the body. His excuse for that was that he had problems loading them on the computer. Only one pic showed the snake and the weight. How can that be screwed up? He did take a pic of one of the mojaves and I didn't even receive either of the mojaves that I should.

DO NOT PASS GO!

Robert was supposed to sell me 16 ball pythons total for $2,000. I thought it was a good deal, but they always say that if a deal is too good to be true it usually is.

This is what I was supposed to get from him:

0.3 Normals 1800g each
0.1 Granite 1800g
1.1 Ghost 800g/1780g
1.2 Pastel 1000g/1060g/1200g
1.1 Cinny 600g/1000g
1.0 Spider 700g
1.1 Mojave 210g/260g
1.1 Lesser 800g/1000g

Paige if you would've made that same deal if you had the cash, it only goes to show just how much the purpose of the BOI goes over your head. This forum is a play by play journal of scammers, their motives, intentions, excuses, plots, wins and losses. If you use it to learn instead of just as a spot to play judge and jury, then you know to pass "deals" like that by the wayside.

In life, if a deal is too good to be true, it is. In the reptile world...if the deal is too good to be true, you're probably being had.

Robert wins. Only because you guys see cheap and jump all over it.

 

[Matt2979]

While I AM glad that you're willing to bring this to our attention, I'm going to have to agree with Tom and Konstantin that there should have been enough red flags to tell you to not walk away, but to run. I'm not about to bash you for losing your money on this one, but instead I'm hoping to point out to others to be careful.

Personally, if I run a search on someone and NO info comes up, I'm not about to send them $2K without great references that I can verify to be legit.

As far as Paypal, they are doing their job. They have no way of knowing that you didn't receive exactly what you expected. If they refunded based on the info that you've given, the good guys would be the ones getting ripped off because all the bad guys would get their animals, make a protest and then get their money back. From what I understand, they only refund your money if you never received anything.

I know you posted a few e-mails in the beginning of this thread. Can you please post ALL of the e-mails?? And I'd really like to hear from the accused, to get his side of the story. Maybe he won't come here at all, but he should at least be sent notification of this thread. Whether or not he will answer your e-mails, you can still send him the notification.

Again, none of what I said is to bash the OP, as I don't like seeing anyone be taken. I'm just hoping that this can serve as a warning to others.

 

[SuperMorph]

Here is some more clarity and info about what is going on and some info that I did NOT know about paypal. Also, I have posted all of the emails that I have saved from the scammer. I wasn't as concerned about this transaction taking place with Robert because I have dealt with him before. I didn't know that he was going to start scamming. He is very annoying with the amount of phone calls he makes (not just this transaction) and blames most or all problems on wife.

Not all "deals" are too good to be true. I have made "deals" that are better than what this one was supposed to be. I also wasn't as concerned because I have paypal to back me up to work the reverse if a problem should arise. Well, even though I called paypal and was told that I was protected, they backed out. First they said I sent the money wrong, but paypal told me BEFORE I sent the money that I was protected as long as I did not send the money as a gift. Then they said that I have to send the money as a 'purchase of goods' to be protected.

A fun fact that paypal also told me is that even sending the money as a 'purchase of goods' doesn't give you buyer protection. What, buyer protection with out protection??? If you are buying stuff like intangible goods, cars, stuff picked up in person, and other stuff (see paypal's user agreement) you are not protected. The person that I talked to today at paypal was informative as well as a couple of others since this problem came about. The person also said that you ARE NOT PROTECTED UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES USING PAYPAL FOR THE PURCHASE OF ANIMALS AND/OR LIVE STOCK. I have not seen that in the user agreement yet. I should have an email of that user agreement soon. Wonder if it will differ than that of what is on paypals site.

Another fact that I was told about today from paypal about my claim is that Robert told paypal that I am paying him $2000 for the snakes, he would ship them to me, and then I would pay him $1500 more! That's the first of that crap that I have heard. I would have to sell this stuff that he sent me on the high end to even get $2000. Where does an additional $1500 come in to play? I even posted the unedited emails that say $2000 was the 'deal'.

So anyway, paypal helped him with 'fraud' as they say and said that everyone else can do the same since there is no protection on animals. Call paypal and they will agree. The next step for me is to file this problem with the Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3.Gov). The other person that was in on this deal with me happens to be in law enforcement and hopefully that will help streamline some of our efforts. Oh, paypal also said that for the next month or so that they are going to send 'courtesy' emails to Robert to resolve the issue with me. I don't expect him to call me anymore. They are also investigating his account to see what other things he is doing and this incident is now on his record. Maybe I didn't get what I was supposed to get because he thought of part of the money as a payment for him not to bother me anymore?

Now I need to focus and continue getting these snakes to top health. Looks like Robert doesn't know how to feed his animals or give them water. I am glad they don't have saliva dripping from their mouth, but I still have them quarantined to be safe. Looks like the males have weight to them, but not so much on the few females.

It's unfortunate that all this happened, but I learned some good information about paypal. You can buy 16 snakes for $2000, or $20000, or even $100, it just depends on what you are trying to purchase. I thought that I was buying a group of snakes at wholesale since I was supposedly getting the group. Not everything has to be at high market. I know that not everything that even some of the big name people sell are animals that they produced. I am just going to have to do more of my snake purchases in person.

This note is for Matt Jackson. I am not trying to bash on you at all for what I am about to say. It sounds like from what you are telling me about paypal that you don't have much experience using paypal and you are trying to tell me that they are doing their job. Paypal doesn't just refund your money if you never received your items. I know from past personal experience that if you receive an item(s) that is significantly different than what was to arrive, you can dispute/claim it through paypal. Then you return it to the seller when paypal directs you to do so (return shipping is out of your pocket) with a tracking number and you will receive a refund. This experience this week re-emphasizes that it has to be a purchase of a qualifying item(s). I also want to reiterate that I don't have anymore emails to post since most of everything was through phone conversations and an email from Robert is difficult to read anyway since he doesn't know how to type well. I am also glad you agree with me in the point that this can serve as a warning to others to be cautious and to STAY AWAY FROM ROBERT AND DENISE RINGHOFF!

 

[Matt2979]

This note is for Matt Jackson. I am not trying to bash on you at all for what I am about to say. It sounds like from what you are telling me about paypal that you don't have much experience using paypal and you are trying to tell me that they are doing their job. Paypal doesn't just refund your money if you never received your items. I know from past personal experience that if you receive an item(s) that is significantly different than what was to arrive, you can dispute/claim it through paypal. Then you return it to the seller when paypal directs you to do so (return shipping is out of your pocket) with a tracking number and you will receive a refund. This experience this week re-emphasizes that it has to be a purchase of a qualifying item(s). I also want to reiterate that I don't have anymore emails to post since most of everything was through phone conversations and an email from Robert is difficult to read anyway since he doesn't know how to type well. I am also glad you agree with me in the point that this can serve as a warning to others to be cautious and to STAY AWAY FROM ROBERT AND DENISE RINGHOFF!

No worries. My skin's thick enough not to feel bashed on...or maybe it's my head that's too thick...lol

Either way, my point was that they can't just reverse a transaction based on someone's word. There has to be proof that you didn't get what you paid for. I agree that they should give you buyer protection if you can prove it. It's just that based on the few e-mails you supplied, and--by your own statement--you don't have good pics of "what you paid for" so it comes down to your word against his.

Do you have Robert's contact info that you can supply here?

 

[garweft]

This note is for Matt Jackson. I am not trying to bash on you at all for what I am about to say. It sounds like from what you are telling me about paypal that you don't have much experience using paypal and you are trying to tell me that they are doing their job. Paypal doesn't just refund your money if you never received your items. I know from past personal experience that if you receive an item(s) that is significantly different than what was to arrive, you can dispute/claim it through paypal. Then you return it to the seller when paypal directs you to do so (return shipping is out of your pocket) with a tracking number and you will receive a refund. This experience this week re-emphasizes that it has to be a purchase of a qualifying item(s). I also want to reiterate that I don't have anymore emails to post since most of everything was through phone conversations and an email from Robert is difficult to read anyway since he doesn't know how to type well. I am also glad you agree with me in the point that this can serve as a warning to others to be cautious and to STAY AWAY FROM ROBERT AND DENISE RINGHOFF!

Qualifying purchases are those made on ebay and thru ebay stores. All others are not covered under the buyer protection. He could have shipped you an empty box and as long as he gave paypal the tracking number they are not going to do anything about it.

Thank you for getting the information on this guy out. Hopefully he doesn't get a chance to pull this on anyone else.

 

[Paige n' James]

Pavy,
Shocker I know but I am going to have to totally disagree with you. I think someone selling off their collection could ask that for those snakes were they unproven. I have added up the snakes based on what I have paid locally and come to $2,100 minus the lessers though. But say he just wanted to move on then he could say $2K for everything. Also keep in mind he didn't take off with all his money. Yes, it was an awesome deal but don't fault Jason nor me for this situation.

Jason,
Did he have anything negative on the boi? If not, great on you for making others aware of his dealings. : )