Info Floridaherps.com Copyright infringement - I found my photo their website

[Riserax]

They're actually trying to defend themselves using others pictures to depict their animals? It's nearly impossible to not have a way to take a picture nowadays so there's no excuse imo.

 

[Focal]

Haha, I like how she argues the point that it "could be" their pic because there is no watermark. Come on! Is it yours or not? Did you steal it? If you know it's not yours, why argue with anyone that claims it's theirs? Jeez. Adding them to the list.

 

[snowgyre]

I really hate to play devil's advocate here, because ignorance is no excuse for violating a law, but it is possible that these photographs were used with no bad intent. Dessirae, your email was as formal and polite as you could be. Seems to me that the company acted immaturely at first, yes, but from reading the email it seems like it was a knee-jerk defensive response because they A) couldn't remember where they got the photos from and B) got bent out of shape that they were being accused of stealing before they took a breather to acknowledge their mistake. We've all done it before, acting before we think. It's a little less excusable for a business, but it can happen.

Seems to me once they calmed down enough to look at the matter objectively that they responded positively to the criticism. I'm sure this is a mistake they won't make again after all the emails they're getting about copyright infringement. However, attacking their business ethics does seem a bit harsh. Mistakes were made, yes, but they're making good on fixing those mistakes. I'd rather give them the benefit of a doubt. This is their first strike, true, but let's see what the next pitch brings before we decide if they're a bad ball player.

 

[bmatyeah]

I really hate to play devil's advocate here, because ignorance is no excuse for violating a law, but it is possible that these photographs were used with no bad intent.

It is not a care sheet or a help website. This is a legitimate website and the picture was not cited. They are selling animals based off of the picture, making money off your work? Bad intent? No, but lazy, illegal, and untrustworthy YES!

This is a joke for business to get caught doing this anymore. Florda Herps will now become a business joke in my business law and practices class.

brianmatthias

 

[annmikeal]

I love how in the response Dessirae got (the second time), that she admits that they have been taking photos from other peoples Flickr accounts for years... really, buy a freaking camera and get your own pics...

 

[ReptileRave]

I love how in the response Dessirae got (the second time), that she admits that they have been taking photos from other peoples Flickr accounts for years... really, buy a freaking camera and get your own pics...

I absolutely agree with you on this one! I just made a Flickr account last night, for a turtle forum... but in the titles of the pictures I put "DO NOT TAKE WITH OUT CONSENT" something along those lines..

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I really hate to play devil's advocate here, because ignorance is no excuse for violating a law, but it is possible that these photographs were used with no bad intent. Dessirae, your email was as formal and polite as you could be. Seems to me that the company acted immaturely at first, yes, but from reading the email it seems like it was a knee-jerk defensive response because they A) couldn't remember where they got the photos from and B) got bent out of shape that they were being accused of stealing before they took a breather to acknowledge their mistake. We've all done it before, acting before we think. It's a little less excusable for a business, but it can happen.

Seems to me once they calmed down enough to look at the matter objectively that they responded positively to the criticism. I'm sure this is a mistake they won't make again after all the emails they're getting about copyright infringement. However, attacking their business ethics does seem a bit harsh. Mistakes were made, yes, but they're making good on fixing those mistakes. I'd rather give them the benefit of a doubt. This is their first strike, true, but let's see what the next pitch brings before we decide if they're a bad ball player.

Would agree if it were not for this paragraph in the second "polite" email.

You cannot even prove that photo is yours. I'm not arguing with you, just
pointing out a fact. I could upload to my camera and date stamp it 2 years
ago, watermark it and put my name on. How would you ever prove it wasn't
mine? We've been doing this along time, we have used photos taken from
Flickr for some items we don't stock often or in your case

That mentality would be yet another strike.

 

[figg2112]

I really hate to play devil's advocate here, because ignorance is no excuse for violating a law, but it is possible that these photographs were used with no bad intent. Dessirae, your email was as formal and polite as you could be. Seems to me that the company acted immaturely at first, yes, but from reading the email it seems like it was a knee-jerk defensive response because they A) couldn't remember where they got the photos from and B) got bent out of shape that they were being accused of stealing before they took a breather to acknowledge their mistake. We've all done it before, acting before we think. It's a little less excusable for a business, but it can happen.

Seems to me once they calmed down enough to look at the matter objectively that they responded positively to the criticism. I'm sure this is a mistake they won't make again after all the emails they're getting about copyright infringement. However, attacking their business ethics does seem a bit harsh. Mistakes were made, yes, but they're making good on fixing those mistakes. I'd rather give them the benefit of a doubt. This is their first strike, true, but let's see what the next pitch brings before we decide if they're a bad ball player.

I admit I was a little alarmed when I saw my photograph under google shopping with a BUY NOW price tag next to it. It is my chameleon taken with my camera in my house and what was someone else doing with it acting like it was theirs???
\
I turned to the chameleonforums for advice because I didn't know if I should do anything about it.. It was suggested I post on here which I did .

I suspected that somebody made the website and just grabbed photos from anywhere to fill the site up.. not realizing that it was a big deal.

I sent the first email trying to sound as nice and non-accusing as I could and was expecting to be ignored or get as email back that says "sorry the picture has been removed"

I was taken aback by the childish reply and the other photograph from our website taken and fictitiously watermarked.. Made me angry I won't lie. If it wasn't my photograph what would I possible have to gain by asking them to remove it?! Its not a great photo but it is mine and we do have it on our website (in a flickr gallery) and suddenly I was being accused about lying that it was my photo

I did see that the photo was removed, which is what I wanted. The last email I got I have mixed feeling about. It seems they still want to tell me I'm wrong but being nice in a 'fake' kind of way.

I'm not out to bad mouth anyone. I did not put a BAD GUY icon next to this post and I did that for a reason. I am a very reasonable person (in my opinion )

She said "We would have removed it just to make you happy with no more than a simple 1 line email - "please remove this photo". It was the fact that you felt the need to go slamming on forums we found rather uncalled for."

My first email WAS a simple email saying please remove my photo. and I have not gone 'slamming on the forums', I have merely presented the facts how they are

Like I said I just wanted my photo to be removed which has been done. I am not out to 'get' or 'slam' anyone.

 

[ShadowAceD]

I really hate to play devil's advocate here, because ignorance is no excuse for violating a law, but it is possible that these photographs were used with no bad intent.

I disagree. Typically, on more reputable business websites where the provider of a given product, be it animal or otherwise, has so much product coming in and out, they generally denote if the photograph depicted is just a general representation of the animal they have available for purchase or just a pic garnered for reference. Their failure in stating this or even citing where the photograph is from is misrepresenting what they have in stock. To the casual buyer, they may assume (rightfully so), that the animal pictured is, in fact, the animal they are purchasing. Little do they know, the photo being used is a generalization from a stolen picture and what they may end up recieving is a junk animal that does not live up to the standard of the picture. If they truly had no poor intent or were reputable, they would take pictures of their own animals as they get them. However, seeing as they are flippers, I could easily see why they would not do such a thing.

They claim their animals are hand picked from only the best breeders in Florida. If that were true, I'd imagine only the best of any animal would come from their facility and surely that would mean they would want to take their own photos of them. But, I also note that they say they can find pretty much any animal anyone wants, so they very well may not even have any of the photographed animals in stock from the get go.

Also, I would like to note many reputable resellers use plural descriptions for their animals as a way to automatically denote picture is not necessarily full representation. This site does not do that.

I typed this up over a span of a few hours while working so ... if it seems redundant at this point, I apologize. I kept getting pulled away.

 

[snowgyre]

Dessirae, you did everything right! I didn't mean to imply that you were criticizing their business ethics, I was referring to other people responding afterward your initial post. You and all the other people who had their photos stolen are totally within your right to request those images being taken down, you were absolutely correct to post a notice of it here so others could also review the site, and it appears that the business is removing the images. So far I have seen no unprofessionalism beyond the initial defensive email sent out by the company. I've been rather impressed by how well this situation has been handled by all directly involved.

 

[Miss Tuniwha]

I really hate to play devil's advocate here, because ignorance is no excuse for violating a law, but it is possible that these photographs were used with no bad intent. Dessirae, your email was as formal and polite as you could be. Seems to me that the company acted immaturely at first, yes, but from reading the email it seems like it was a knee-jerk defensive response because they A) couldn't remember where they got the photos from and B) got bent out of shape that they were being accused of stealing before they took a breather to acknowledge their mistake. We've all done it before, acting before we think. It's a little less excusable for a business, but it can happen.

Seems to me once they calmed down enough to look at the matter objectively that they responded positively to the criticism. I'm sure this is a mistake they won't make again after all the emails they're getting about copyright infringement. However, attacking their business ethics does seem a bit harsh. Mistakes were made, yes, but they're making good on fixing those mistakes. I'd rather give them the benefit of a doubt. This is their first strike, true, but let's see what the next pitch brings before we decide if they're a bad ball player.

I disagree to all of this.. "Intent" was to make money .. using someone else's work/photography and even someone elses ANIMALS! etc. "bad" intent or not.. that is theft.. and flat out ignorance AND laziness..

And the "calmed down" e-mail was mostly them laughing at her.. they pretty much told her it was HER fault for posting photos anywhere that they could possibly be stolen.. And bragging about how easy they could make it look like it was THEIRS.. well that's just class all the way..



They didn't really "apologize" at all.. they just said they would take the photo down.. apologizing is what you do when you realize you did wrong.. they are clearly VERY proud of their.. eh.. "skills" of STEALING photos..


What they did was laugh while giving her the big middle finger..

 

[Miss Tuniwha]

Dessirae, you did everything right! I didn't mean to imply that you were criticizing their business ethics, I was referring to other people responding afterward your initial post. You and all the other people who had their photos stolen are totally within your right to request those images being taken down, you were absolutely correct to post a notice of it here so others could also review the site, and it appears that the business is removing the images. So far I have seen no unprofessionalism beyond the initial defensive email sent out by the company. I've been rather impressed by how well this situation has been handled by all directly involved.

from their second reply.. they clearly don't care about the theft.. so I can almost guarantee they just went back to google or flicker to replace those photos..

I mean.. look at them.. seriously.. go look at the photos.. they are OBVIOUSLY stolen.. I know when I post an animal for sale.. i don't crop out the back ground..

why would you crop out everything around the animal with a photo shop tool.. unless there is something to hide..

I am not sure how you are able to even read that second email in a positive light..

 

[Miss Tuniwha]

I am trying to figure out why it's ok to steal people's photos.. if you saw your kids on someone elses page, and saw them talking about how great they were, gave them new names etc etc etc.. how would you feel?? no malicious intent.. just a fake family they made up with YOUR photos of YOUR family.. that they found on flickr perhaps..

is it still ok?


I am guessing no.. so why is it just "ok tra la la" when it's an animal.. that is still YOUR animal, YOUR photo, YOUR time and YOUR money.. Ignorance is bliss I suppose eh?

 

[ForkedTung]

So far I have seen no unprofessionalism beyond the initial defensive email sent out by the company.

Well then you aren't looking very hard, I think it's apparent to everyone that's posted on this thread that they have behaved completely and without cause unprofessionally. Lillian's responses have been classic passive-aggressive taunts and thinly disguised insults.
Now the question has to be asked:
Have you done business with any of these people or their numerous various companies at any time and in any form, either purchasing or selling etc...?

I disagree to all of this.. "Intent" was to make money .. using someone else's work/photography and even someone elses ANIMALS! etc. "bad" intent or not.. that is theft.. and flat out ignorance AND laziness..

And the "calmed down" e-mail was mostly them laughing at her.. they pretty much told her it was HER fault for posting photos anywhere that they could possibly be stolen.. And bragging about how easy they could make it look like it was THEIRS.. well that's just class all the way..



They didn't really "apologize" at all.. they just said they would take the photo down.. apologizing is what you do when you realize you did wrong.. they are clearly VERY proud of their.. eh.. "skills" of STEALING photos..


What they did was laugh while giving her the big middle finger..

from their second reply.. they clearly don't care about the theft.. so I can almost guarantee they just went back to google or flicker to replace those photos..

I mean.. look at them.. seriously.. go look at the photos.. they are OBVIOUSLY stolen.. I know when I post an animal for sale.. i don't crop out the back ground..

why would you crop out everything around the animal with a photo shop tool.. unless there is something to hide..

I am not sure how you are able to even read that second email in a positive light..

I am trying to figure out why it's ok to steal people's photos.. if you saw your kids on someone elses page, and saw them talking about how great they were, gave them new names etc etc etc.. how would you feel?? no malicious intent.. just a fake family they made up with YOUR photos of YOUR family.. that they found on flickr perhaps..

is it still ok?


I am guessing no.. so why is it just "ok tra la la" when it's an animal.. that is still YOUR animal, YOUR photo, YOUR time and YOUR money.. Ignorance is bliss I suppose eh?

Brandi, You are 100% correct ( as per usual ) !!!!

 

[figg2112]

And the "calmed down" e-mail was mostly them laughing at her.. they pretty much told her it was HER fault for posting photos anywhere that they could possibly be stolen.. And bragging about how easy they could make it look like it was THEIRS.. well that's just class all the way..

They didn't really "apologize" at all.. they just said they would take the photo down.. apologizing is what you do when you realize you did wrong.. they are clearly VERY proud of their.. eh.. "skills" of STEALING photos..


What they did was laugh while giving her the big middle finger..

 

[Chris Anderson]

Just to update on the Senegal Chameleon photos, shortly after I posted my email to them on this thread, the two senegal chameleon photos were removed although they never replied to my email. I emailed them again this morning with the following:

from Christopher V. Anderson <[email protected]>
to [email protected]
cc [email protected]
date Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 10:38 AM
subject Re: Senegal Chameleon Photographs
mailed-by mail.usf.edu
hide details 10:38 AM (3 hours ago)
To Whom It May Concern:

While I've not heard back from you regarding my previous email, I have noticed that you have removed the photos from your website. I have, however, noticed that one of these photos is also present on your company's facebook page (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=158578794156&set=a.158578239156.118757.158575454156&theater). I would appreciate if you would remove this image as well.

Thank you for your cooperation,

Chris

Shortly after that was sent, the photos were removed from facebook but still no response to my emails.

As far as unprofessionalism goes, I have to agree with the majority of people who have posted and say that their replies to Dessirae make it pretty apparent that they have no qualms about taking people's photographs without there permission and using them until they get caught and called out. To me, that shows bad intent because it is clear that it was not unintentional.

Chris

 

[scaledverts]

Have those of you that had your pics stolen told them about this thread yet? I would LOVE to hear them come here and TRY to explain away the obvious pic stealing.

It seems like this is happening more and more now. Looks like all my pics are going to get a HUGE "ScaledVerts" written across them now. Man that really takes away from the point of the photo though .

 

[bloodybaroness]

I am trying to figure out why it's ok to steal people's photos.. if you saw your kids on someone elses page, and saw them talking about how great they were, gave them new names etc etc etc.. how would you feel?? no malicious intent.. just a fake family they made up with YOUR photos of YOUR family.. that they found on flickr perhaps..

is it still ok?


I am guessing no.. so why is it just "ok tra la la" when it's an animal.. that is still YOUR animal, YOUR photo, YOUR time and YOUR money.. Ignorance is bliss I suppose eh?

Yes to all of this.

Looking the Facebook page, I'm 99.999% that I have seen that corn snake photo before.

 

[figg2112]

I have not had anymore contact with them other than the emails I have posted here.. and I would rather not have anymore contact with them.

As far as taking photos from Flickr I found this on the flickr website:

http://www.flickr.com/help/general/#147


I'd like to use a photo I found on Flickr. How do I do that?

Our members share an incredible amount of amazing work on Flickr. If there is an image you'd like to use, look for the "Request to license" link near the license on the photo page. We've partnered with Getty Images who will review the image, determine if it's a good fit for licensing through them, and work out all the details if so.

Not all members have this enabled. If you don't see it you can also contact the member directly. As a member of Flickr, you can move your mouse over someone's buddy icon and click the little arrow to open the "person menu." Then select "Send FlickrMail" and compose your message. When you contact a photographer, it's best to include as much info as possible about the photo, yourself, and how you want to use the photo.

 

[mmfrankford]

Noticed that they are using the Fluker's smoking chameleon. They have to know that is not their photo, it's used in the inside page of Reptile magazine.

http://www.floridaherps.com/products/Veiled-Chameleon.html

Melissa Frankford