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spider head wobble

Kinda going back to the OP's question: My spider seemed to have more of a wobble as a youngster but seems to have somewhat grown out of it. Though his was never bad to begin with. He'd cruise along, flip himself upside down, but then immediately right himself. Didn't seem to have much problem figuring out how to turn himself back over. The offspring he produced last season don't seem to have much of a wobble issue except during feeding: they spin slightly when offered food, but nail it every time. Of course, I have seen some normals "wiggle" (for lack of a better word) slightly when their muscles tense up to strike, but the spider offspring do seem to have a more pronounced "wiggle" when preparing to strike.

I don't think there's any guarantee that a spider will or won't "grow into" or "grow out of" the issue. It's more of a snake-by-snake basis. Just because they don't exhibit it as a youngster doesn't mean they won't ever exhibit it (though they may not) and vice versa: just becuase they have it as a youngster doesn't mean they won't grow out of it for the most part (but it doesn't mean they will either).
 
I'd agree,when I feed mine she will do close to the same thing but when the hit happens,she is right on target.I have watched her growing and her sideways sleeping and her lying on her back upside down with her head at a slant still seems to me to be no worse or no better but it does'nt seem to bother her.I just hope her offspring is alright when next season comes
 
reptilenut69 said:
I have talked to a few breeders and they are telling me spider to spider all the babies would have some real issues if they even make it. I asked if could or should I breed a spider to spider all of them said don't. even a bee to a bee they told me is no good.
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Where do people hear this stuff? I remember when I bought my first bee at a show I almost bought from a guy who bought 2 bumble bees as his first snakes and breed them together and got 7 eggs and 5 or 6 of them were bees. He had them all for sale at the show. All looked good and healthy and did not wobble as 200g or so babies.
 
Subdriven said:
Where do people hear this stuff? I remember when I bought my first bee at a show I almost bought from a guy who bought 2 bumble bees as his first snakes and breed them together and got 7 eggs and 5 or 6 of them were bees. He had them all for sale at the show. All looked good and healthy and did not wobble as 200g or so babies.
Click to expand...
I think you'd find most people wouldn't breed a bumblebee to a bumblebee but I might be wrong.
Obviously some do and have done the breeding, I'd sure like to hear about some of the babies that pairing produced and find out how they ended up as adults.
Did they end up corkscrewing and/or wobbling worse or not at all or?
It would be interesting to know.
 
Honestly.... what the hell is the big deal with the wobble? It doesnt affect breeding, doesnt affect feeding, doesnt harm the snake or anything, it just has balance issues. I mean if u have a autistic child are u just gonna toss it in a corner and say u dont like it?

I think people just wanted a reason to get their panties in a bunch and complain about sumthin when they had nuthin better to complain about and everyone else just hopped the band wagon. So what they wobble?

Why is the wobble so bad?
 
rcpreis3 said:
Honestly.... what the hell is the big deal with the wobble? It doesnt affect breeding, doesnt affect feeding, doesnt harm the snake or anything, it just has balance issues. I mean if u have a autistic child are u just gonna toss it in a corner and say u dont like it?

I think people just wanted a reason to get their panties in a bunch and complain about sumthin when they had nuthin better to complain about and everyone else just hopped the band wagon. So what they wobble?

Why is the wobble so bad?
Click to expand...

Let me ask you this question then.

You get married, and you find out that you if you and your wife have children, they will have problems with autism, brain functions, etc. If you knew this, would you still want to have children? (Nothing against autism, just stating why would you want to put any child through this).

So, if you knew your spider had a wobble, why breed it when chances are the babies could also have a wobble? We don't know how it affects the snakes. We don't know if they are in pain, or what their brains are going through. We don't know if it harms the snake.

So if you have a snake with something wrong, why breed it?
 
It's my understanding that all spiders and womas have "wobble." It's just a matter of how extreme it is. I've researched this alot because our lemon bumblebee is a wobbly lil guy and we wanted to make sure he will be able to breed. I've found from my readings that as long as they feed ok (his aim is horrible! but he gets it eventually lol) that they will breed just fine :)
 
sfconstrictors said:
Let me ask you this question then.

You get married, and you find out that you if you and your wife have children, they will have problems with autism, brain functions, etc. If you knew this, would you still want to have children? (Nothing against autism, just stating why would you want to put any child through this).

So, if you knew your spider had a wobble, why breed it when chances are the babies could also have a wobble? We don't know how it affects the snakes. We don't know if they are in pain, or what their brains are going through. We don't know if it harms the snake.

So if you have a snake with something wrong, why breed it?
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Good point, but I dont think anyone in the world can tell u ur kids might have this or that. I remember hearing on the news about a down syndrome patient had a child and the child was perfectly fine.

What my main complaint is people see wobble and think its sumthin horrible and wont even buy a spider. I think its no worse than my balance is.

Now autism does affect the learning and develpoment of a child, I think all wobbling does is affect balance. It really irritated me when I saw that a certain, to remain nameless breeder, would put all baby wobbly spiders in the freezer. I dunno, I dont see a wobbly spider as sumthin thats bad.. just different.

To answer if I knew my spider had a wobble would I still breed it? Yes. Because what is so wrong with the wobble itself?
 
Wobbling is a defect that effects the quality of life of the snake. How much it effects the quality of life is up for debate, but you can not deny that the snake does not lead what most people would consider a normal life. Breeding a defective animal is not, in my opinion, what a responsible breeder would do. They would be contributing to the problem.

In regards to whether or not a human doctor can determine if a child you are carrying will be effected by some sort of disorder or disease, you are incorrect. While I'm not aware of autism being identifiable, their are several disorders and diseases that can be tested for using Amniocentesis. This is routinely done on older mothers.
 
NewportMorphs said:
It's my understanding that all spiders and womas have "wobble." It's just a matter of how extreme it is. I've researched this alot because our lemon bumblebee is a wobbly lil guy and we wanted to make sure he will be able to breed. I've found from my readings that as long as they feed ok (his aim is horrible! but he gets it eventually lol) that they will breed just fine :)
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I don't think all Womas have a wobble, I have one I raised from a hatchling and I never once noticed any sort of wobble or even a head tilt so I guess you can't say all. :)

On the other hand I have a Spider but he is about as wobbleless as you can find and he loves the ladies.
 

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NewportMorphs said:
It's my understanding that all spiders and womas have "wobble."
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Having owned multiple spiders/combos and multiple womas I call that an unsubstantiated "rumor".
Not one of the womas I've owned or been around did the head tilt or wobbled and for sure none corkscrewed. :shrug01:

No head shakes, no head tilt, nothing but normal in every way.
 
WOMAS...

I also own a woma & have never seen it do any wobbling either...or any neurological problems at all i bought it as a yearling & have had it for 2 years
excellent breeder,eater, overall snake !!! thats actually why i decided to go with a woma instead of a spider, i do not like animals with any defects or neurological problems !
 
Does anyone know or have heard of a situation where lets say a regular spider has a wobble, but a spider with hets does not?
Like lets just say I have a regular spider, he has a wobble. I then have a spider het albino, no wobble.

Anyone know?
 
TripleMoonsExotic said:
Wobbling is a defect that effects the quality of life of the snake. How much it effects the quality of life is up for debate, but you can not deny that the snake does not lead what most people would consider a normal life. Breeding a defective animal is not, in my opinion, what a responsible breeder would do. They would be contributing to the problem.

In regards to whether or not a human doctor can determine if a child you are carrying will be effected by some sort of disorder or disease, you are incorrect. While I'm not aware of autism being identifiable, their are several disorders and diseases that can be tested for using Amniocentesis. This is routinely done on older mothers.
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How does the wobble affect its normal life? Besides being shakey. They can eat, breed and lay around in a cage all day just as well as ur none wobbling morphs. And with breeding, I can see not breeding kinks and, blindness, etc. But please tell me in any way the wobble directly affects the quality and vitality of a spider, and does it determine a shorter life span, constant pain throughout its life, or what ever can be unhealthy?

I honestly dont see it any more different than a person who twitches, or someone born with a birth mark that covers most of their face or sumthin.
 
sfconstrictors said:
Does anyone know or have heard of a situation where lets say a regular spider has a wobble, but a spider with hets does not?
Like lets just say I have a regular spider, he has a wobble. I then have a spider het albino, no wobble.

Anyone know?
Click to expand...
A spider het albino is no different than a bumblebee genetically.
One is a visual het/spider combo and the other is a recessive het/spider combo
:)
 
rcpreis3 said:
Honestly.... what the hell is the big deal with the wobble? It doesnt affect breeding, doesnt affect feeding, doesnt harm the snake or anything, it just has balance issues. I mean if u have a autistic child are u just gonna toss it in a corner and say u dont like it?

I think people just wanted a reason to get their panties in a bunch and complain about sumthin when they had nuthin better to complain about and everyone else just hopped the band wagon. So what they wobble?

Why is the wobble so bad?
Click to expand...

its not just the wobble its the corkscrew also and he never did this before thats why I did the post to see if others had this happen. I want to breed healthy animals so for me its not a big deal to kick him out of my breeding program. I don't do this for the money its just a hobby and I like snakes. I don't like people who are just out for a quick buck will do anything and not care about the animals. like breeding albino boas with one eye or breeding a caramel albino with a kink its very low. My females are good no problems with them like I think my hand shakes more then what I see from the one female the other is just solid. my male is a train wreck he wants to strike up goes down corkscrews its crazy and like I said it just kinda started to get bad.
 
Wobbley spiders

In 09 I had 2 clutches from my spider male who had a little bit of shake to him. One clutch was to a normal and the other to a pastel, I got 3 spiders from the normal 2 of them corkscrewed, star gazed and had duck billed jaws, the other one was fine. I got a pair of bees and a spider from the pastel and they were all fine. Last year I produced 7 spiders from the same father some with minimal wobble. I think it also varies on the females that you breed them to, not just strictly the spider genetics.
 
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