• Responding to email notices you receive.
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    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

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    Posted 08/15/2025
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    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

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    Addendum: 01/10/2026
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    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Bad Guy Mailibumiles (Miles Sundher) BAD BUSINESS ETHICS

Personally, I don't feel you have it out with him ... even with the emails. You are deserving of a full refund, IMO. Miles sold sick chameleons, plain and simple. Perhaps this can serve as constructive, not damaging. A learning lesson, if you will.

Chams are specialized ... they need very exacting care. They need more care than other herps. Their basic needs cannot be minimalized (is that even a word?) or overlooked.
They are expensive to care for. That's why they suffer and die. They're not for everybody.

Miles may not be a bad guy, he did reimburse partially. Miles may just need to learn more about chameleons or tend to their needs more carefully or concentrate on another herp.
 
What was the prescribed dose, and administration route, for the Baytril? Was there any mention of why Baytril was being prescribed (vs another med)?
Would you please post the necropsy report - there is a specific factor I'm very interested in
 
The Baytril was one drop orally daily for one week, then take 3 days off and go another week. I did make sure she was very hydrated i have a misting system that goes for 5 minute intervals 5 times a day, and then I also added a couple extra hand misting session for her.

I don't have a full report, but I can get one. The necropsy was done by a fellow herper who has done countless necropsy's (not just for me). I will have him send me a print out for here. Reason why I didn't go to my local vet for the necropsy is because when I called they said it could be up to $300
 
I still believe both females died as a result of prior improper care, but I believe I see what Haraold is getting at.

You stated the vet prescribed Baytril after diagnosing an "eye infection", but did not do blood work, nor prepare cultures to pinpoint a particular bacteria or culprit. Eye infection was diagnosed simply because her eye turrets were so enlarged.
 
One drop? Not a very accurate measurement....and, also, most likely, an overdose (given the weight of a chameleon).
Given that Baytril is nephrotoxic, and that the necropsy was performed by a "fellow herper"; how do you know that the kidney damage that was seen was caused by the infection, rather than the treatment?
 
hhmoore said:
One drop? Not a very accurate measurement....and, also, most likely, an overdose (given the weight of a chameleon).
Given that Baytril is nephrotoxic, and that the necropsy was performed by a "fellow herper"; how do you know that the kidney damage that was seen was caused by the infection, rather than the treatment?
Click to expand...

I understand that's what you were getting at, but I knew that baytril is normally hard on chams that is why I made sure she was well hydrated, and I literally saw her drink, not just sit in the mist, and she drank for a long period of time each misting session.

I do understand your point about what the chances are that it could be the medication, but I am inclined to think it was the infection rather than the baytril solely because she was very well hydrated.
 
Well, crap ... I hadn't finished my previous post, got sidetracked and hit "post" by mistake... duh.

No, they didn't do a whole blood culture because it was prevalent that her eyes were infected so they gave me the treatment to give her
Click to expand...

You stated the vet prescribed Baytril after diagnosing an "eye infection", but did not do blood work, nor prepare cultures to pinpoint a particular bacteria or culprit. Eye infection was diagnosed simply because her eye turrets were so enlarged.

Eye problems in chams, particularly swollen turrets in CB chams, are generally caused by dietary/suplementation issues. Those issues lead to organ failure (kidney, liver) which are then manifested in the eyes. (I'm not talking about only one eye turret being swollen, which can be the result of stuck shed, an irritant, etc.) I believe the cham was already suffering organ debilitation due to prior husbandry issues and her eye turrets became swollen as a result.

The above is not to be confused for the other female who appeared to be severely dehydrated, hence, the sunken turrets.

As for the necropsy ... did your friend also do a histopathological exam to pintpoint a particular bacteria present to support an eye infection?

Again, I still believe the chams died as a result of prior improper husbandry - but a diagnosis based purely upon visual exam and a necropsy done by a herp friend ain't exactly an open-shut case, IMHO.
 
Googlez_N_Vincent said:
The Baytril was one drop orally daily for one week, then take 3 days off and go another week. I did make sure she was very hydrated i have a misting system that goes for 5 minute intervals 5 times a day, and then I also added a couple extra hand misting session for her.

I don't have a full report, but I can get one. The necropsy was done by a fellow herper who has done countless necropsy's (not just for me). I will have him send me a print out for here. Reason why I didn't go to my local vet for the necropsy is because when I called they said it could be up to $300
Click to expand...

Is your fellow herper that did the "necropsy" the same person that diagnosed the eye infection and "prescribed" the baytril?
 
"Live arrival" only, or something akin to "still alive after three days" is kind of flimsy. You need to have a satisfaction guarantee, or agreement in place before the transaction that encompasses a bit more, that then is the basis for claims such as this.

Miles, I wish you well, but cannot possibly reconcile that those animals looked OK leaving you. You have also done business with others in the industry who could serve as an example for you. You have had claims honored, have you not ? "Newb" is not a valid excuse for you.

Trevor, I think well of you, but you needed a more definitive agreement. I also don't think the eye issue spread to the rest of the body, and put very little faith in necropsies done by fellow herpers on chams. What I do think is that the eyes were symptomatic of larger internal problems to begin with. No doubt you were shipped sick animals.
 
LauraB said:
As for the necropsy ... did your friend also do a histopathological exam to pintpoint a particular bacteria present to support an eye infection?
Click to expand...

No he did not do a histopathological exam

KelliH said:
Is your fellow herper that did the "necropsy" the same person that diagnosed the eye infection and "prescribed" the baytril?
Click to expand...

I went to an actual vet to get the baytril. The fellow herper was a separate party not from the vet.
 
I had (have) a few other questions...but I don't want to distract from the basic fact that Mailibumiles (Miles Sundher) sent those chameleons in that condition. Trevor's handling of certain aspects of this aren't really the issue (though it could be beneficial to HIM to consider some of the points that have and have not been made - nothing wrong with learning from our experiences).

To Miles: A live arrival guarantee is a standard....but so is the expectation that the animals will be outwardly healthy. If you cannot provide healthy animals - don't ship them. If you cannot recognize obvious issues - you should either not keep that species, or you should not include them in your sales until you learn. You dropped the ball on this one in a big way, and being new is not an acceptable excuse.
 
Alright, well thank you everyone for your input and opinions. As of this point in time I still have NOT been reimbursed, if Miles every does reimburse me I will post on here to let everyone know.

Trevor Rizzuto
 
I see so many of these threads starting up where the buyer receives a sick animal, not saying that its the buyers fault, but maybe people should start requesting new pictures preshipping to avoid some of these issues. Don't settle on the picture in the thread.

Obviously anyone would be able to tell you those chams are sick just by looking at their eyes (1 so inflamed it looks like the eye is about to pop, and the other so far recessed in the socket it's clearly in bad shape).
 
hhmoore said:
One drop? Not a very accurate measurement....and, also, most likely, an overdose (given the weight of a chameleon).
Click to expand...

.04 ml is just about equal to 1 drop per 100g. The vet must have diluted it to the right level. Lots of vets will say just give them one drop and provide a bottle with a dropper. It's easier for people that are not good with measurements to provide.

I seriously doubt an overdose.
 
rjarosek said:
.04 ml is just about equal to 1 drop per 100g. The vet must have diluted it to the right level. Lots of vets will say just give them one drop and provide a bottle with a dropper. It's easier for people that are not good with measurements to provide.

I seriously doubt an overdose.
Click to expand...

I should have said in regards to chameleons this scenario is very common.
 
I dont know what the story was with these two chams he sent out that were sick. But for a newbie cham keeper Miles is definately a flipper. I have seen his ads for nosy falys on the fauna class section. He bought some of Max's falys and was selling them only weeks later for about double what he paid. Which isnt against the law or the rules of fauna. But just wanted everyone to know he is def a flipper. He's in it for a quick buck not looking out for the well being of the animals he is selling.
 
Killer Chams said:
I dont know what the story was with these two chams he sent out that were sick. But for a newbie cham keeper Miles is definately a flipper. I have seen his ads for nosy falys on the fauna class section. He bought some of Max's falys and was selling them only weeks later for about double what he paid. Which isnt against the law or the rules of fauna. But just wanted everyone to know he is def a flipper. He's in it for a quick buck not looking out for the well being of the animals he is selling.
Click to expand...


Althought most people knew that, I don't feel it is necessary to point that out now because everything is all said and done. Since Miles is so new it is easy to speculate, but no one really knows if he is a "Bad Guy" or just incredibly inexperienced and young. Personally I feel he is more likely the latter of the two and has a bit to learn.

Thank you though for your statement as is does show he is not a breeder, but just a seller. To me that makes a huge difference because if someone is a breeder they more than likely know how to care for the animal, if some one just "flips" them and is only selling, then they might not know all the right husbandry for the said animal.

Trevor Rizzuto
 
I only posted this information so that others who see any of his ads know what they are possibly getting into. I watch the ads on many sites and I know alot of the cham breeders so its pretty easy to spot a flipper when you know who's got clutches that just hatched etc... Im just trying to give people the infrmation to make an informed purchase.....
 
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