Your opinion that the change is a cop out is what you have to prove then. You can't just paste a theft by deception on someone because YOU do not believe it. And from one of the posts, Ed did indeed say he was selling some of these dragons.
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Info ED CLARK FLIPPING MY DRAGONS
- Thread starter BurkeBrosExotics
- Start date
Your opinion that the change is a cop out is what you have to prove then. You can't just paste a theft by deception on someone because YOU do not believe it. And from one of the posts, Ed did indeed say he was selling some of these dragons.
deborahbroadus
HARD CANDY
I understand what you are saying. But Ed is not anyone that I would be believing in the first place.
The OP posted his story, I have no reason to disbelieve him and every reason to disbelieve Ed based on his own history.
I am fundamentally opposed to a mindset which judges someone guilty of anything they are accused of, just because they have been guilty in the past.
We do in fact use the BOI to determine whether we want to do business with someone based on their history. That is not the same as judging guilt in a particular situation.
There is a difference between buyer and seller, the seller does say that Ed told him he would sell one critter, Ed maintains he told the seller it would be several critters sold.
To infer any intent to deceive from those statements is more of a reach than I'm willing to take.
Bill T
Dragons Dynasty
East_Coast
Active member
How was the OP swindled? He gave Ed the lizards and Ed gave him money.
Didn't they do this face to face?
Ed could have decided, 5 minutes later, "hmmm... you know, these lizards are nicer than I thought... I bet I could sell them and make a lot of money".
Is he then obligated to contact the OP and ask his approval?
I am just finding it hard to believe that Ed did anything wrong here.
Lastly, would the original deal not have been made if Ed told the guy, "I may sell all of these, I am not sure... but when I get back and get everything situated and take a hard look at them and the lizards I already have I will make a decision."
?????
Didn't they do this face to face?
Ed could have decided, 5 minutes later, "hmmm... you know, these lizards are nicer than I thought... I bet I could sell them and make a lot of money".
Is he then obligated to contact the OP and ask his approval?
I am just finding it hard to believe that Ed did anything wrong here.
Lastly, would the original deal not have been made if Ed told the guy, "I may sell all of these, I am not sure... but when I get back and get everything situated and take a hard look at them and the lizards I already have I will make a decision."
?????
Dennis Hultman
New member
The only problem I have with that is the specifics what was to transpire with them aren't clear enough. I'm not so sure that deception is so cut and dry.
In the first post the seller mentions Ed was planning to sell some to recoup loses. That's very subjective. The email that followed also stated
" I understand that you wanted to recoup some of your money but, you posted all of them except the orange leather double het" and " I was under the impression"
It's not as cut and dry if someone was pretending to adopt or some other charitable thought behind the discount.
Even at best and we would take everything on face value, and the discount was given to someone who was going to breed the animals and sell the offspring for profit. I don't think it would quit measure up to "Theft by Deception".
Actually, I think it might seem quite frivolous to a court. I can see it now. Your Honor, I sold this animals to him so he can breed them and then profit of the offspring. Instead, he sold them and profited off thus deceiving me.
The problem here is the seller himself is the one that mentions wholesale prices. That in of itself has a distinct definition.
Keys & Kritterz
addicted to coldblooded
The OP has stated numerous times that he would of given a 25% discount and not a 50% discount.
deborahbroadus
HARD CANDY
I see your point..
As I said, because there's no paper trail, it would be difficult for the OP to prove his case, and you are right, it's not so cut and dried, but the elements are there. I am not inclined to believe that the OP created the sceniero out of whole cloth if he sold the animals cut and dried as Ed is indicating.
(whispers to Lucille....And it's not called "mindset" it's called "learning from experience." I am not opposed to giving someone a chance, but when two opposing stories come in, I am more inclined to give the benefit of a doubt to the one that has yet to be caught in numerous lies.)
dragonluver83
New member
Well ed LIED about his intentions on the dragons that he purchased. IF ed said " I am going to re-sell, most or all of the dragons I am buying from you". The OP would have said okay, Your only getting 25% discount instead of 50% discount. So ed said " I am going to re-sell one or two, to re-coop my loss BUT the rest I am going to keep to breed. So the OP gave him the 50% discount. ONLY to find 4 out of 5 dragons for sale. Sounds like he really want s them to breed.
Its simple really, you either agree that ed bought them he can do what he wants. Regardless what he told the seller OR you look at it as, ed lied to get a lower price so his profit will be great when he re-sells.
Well the OP went as far to post a thread how he was upset that ed was flipping his dragons, when he was suppose to be breeding them. Maybe he wouldnt have given him the large discount. Breeders try to be fair to other breeders, when there working on a project. Its a respect thing between most of us. But selling all but one dragon, is wholesale. Why are you or anyone else going to knock the OP for what he is saying, when the known liar is pulling his normal routine.
Some people need to look up ed's past here on the b.o.i. You might remember why MOST of us dont trust him or buy from him.
His trader rating is high. So is the number of bad guy bad guy threadS he has on the b.o.i.
Suncoast Herpetological
Lurking in the Shadows
Dumbest thread EVER!!!!!!!
The OP sold animals knowing some were going to be immediately resold to recoup the cash outlay. What he is upset about is that more were listed for sale then he thinks equals "some"
Now he is upset because the new rightful owner is selling them for more than he had them listed for.
OP is a whiner and Ed, in this case, did nothing wrong.
Anyone who sees it differently either isn't reading the whole thread or has their opinion colored by a previous opinion of ED
There just isn't any other logical way to see it folks.
Again...DUMBEST THREAD EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!
The OP sold animals knowing some were going to be immediately resold to recoup the cash outlay. What he is upset about is that more were listed for sale then he thinks equals "some"
Now he is upset because the new rightful owner is selling them for more than he had them listed for.
OP is a whiner and Ed, in this case, did nothing wrong.
Anyone who sees it differently either isn't reading the whole thread or has their opinion colored by a previous opinion of ED
There just isn't any other logical way to see it folks.
Again...DUMBEST THREAD EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!
dragonluver83
New member
The only information he posted was that the OP was mad that he was reselling the dragons he said he was keeping. So you have a e-mail from a upset buyer and then you have a post from ed saying. "i was going to resell 2-3 animals and keep a couple". what does that show? Emailed proof in one hand. and eds post in the other. I know where the credibility will NOT be going.
The OP shouldnt have sold the animals for a lower price because he was "breeding" instead of "re selling". Dont sell a animal for a price your not happy with.
Ed DID do something wrong. IMO you dont go to another breeder and ask for a discount because you want to breed the animals. Then turn around and try to sell all but one of the animals.
Is it a BIG deal what ed did? No, compared to eds past its kinda mild and expected. Was the thread needed. No.
Then after all the time you took reading it then typing, how do you feel about being in on it.
Michael Brown
Active member
Ed fan or not
He came up with a grand to give to the OP. He then took full responsibility for his purchase. OP if those dragons died on Ed's return home would it have been your problem? Of course you will say yes, but Ed's 900$ is a risk he took. Whether its a steal or not there are countless things i'm not even gonig to waste my time posting, that he takes with the purchase. Who are you to judge a man on his character for reselling a couple dragons he stated orignally he was to sell. Did he sell all of them? no he posted most of them who knows which will sell (as he stated) all that matters is u have money in hand, he has a risk he was willing to take at the price he payed. its done.
He came up with a grand to give to the OP. He then took full responsibility for his purchase. OP if those dragons died on Ed's return home would it have been your problem? Of course you will say yes, but Ed's 900$ is a risk he took. Whether its a steal or not there are countless things i'm not even gonig to waste my time posting, that he takes with the purchase. Who are you to judge a man on his character for reselling a couple dragons he stated orignally he was to sell. Did he sell all of them? no he posted most of them who knows which will sell (as he stated) all that matters is u have money in hand, he has a risk he was willing to take at the price he payed. its done.
DISCERN
Active member
I highly agree with John Schmitt. Great post John!!
I do see the OP's point about being told one thing, but then maybe, thru seeing Ed's actions, he felt like he was lied to. I am not disregarding that in any way, shape, or form. I acknowledge that.
But the thing is, all this is, is about money. That is all. Plain and simple.
The OP made a deal with Ed. The OP got paid. All about money. The OP MADE MONEY!!!!!! Good for him!!
The OP is angry about giving too much of a discount. All about money.
The OP is angry about Ed selling the animals for more than he himself was going to sell them for. All about money.
Woulda, coulda, shoulda?!?!??? Money was made, nothing was stolen or scammed, and still, happiness is not gained, and something is made to be complained about.
Isn't this hobby grand??
I do see the OP's point about being told one thing, but then maybe, thru seeing Ed's actions, he felt like he was lied to. I am not disregarding that in any way, shape, or form. I acknowledge that.
But the thing is, all this is, is about money. That is all. Plain and simple.
The OP made a deal with Ed. The OP got paid. All about money. The OP MADE MONEY!!!!!! Good for him!!
The OP is angry about giving too much of a discount. All about money.
The OP is angry about Ed selling the animals for more than he himself was going to sell them for. All about money.
Woulda, coulda, shoulda?!?!??? Money was made, nothing was stolen or scammed, and still, happiness is not gained, and something is made to be complained about.
Isn't this hobby grand??
myksbs
Lakewood Reptiles
I agree, They are now HIS dragons, he shall do what he wants with them. Use them for bait, flush them, sell them, etc.. Just my two cents.
Suncoast Herpetological
Lurking in the Shadows
[/QUOTE]
Like a shining beacon of reason Thomas after 10 + pages of stupidity
LauraB
CLOSED ACCOUNT
I've not been silent in past threads involving Ed and his partners; anyone reading those threads could easily decipher my stance, so please do not accuse me of being a friend or business associate.
In reading prior posts by Josh, I see he runs/owns a pet store/shop" :
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1286994#post1286994
5-25-11 - a guy advertises, "Like the title says: I'm looking for 2011 Burm and retic hathlings."
5-26-11 - Josh answers, "I have a few I just picked up some tigers and supers het albino. I acquired a few days ago, if you take 301 north instead of 95 you will pass my house. Let me know I runs small petshop in the area."
and:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1283894#post1283894
5-22-11, Chris Allen advertises his 2011 beardies on the way.
5-23-11, Josh answers, "Hey chris I was just curious if you offer wholesale packages. I only bred a few females and most of the babies have sold. I was really looking to get 10-20 for my shop."
So Josh ... do you own/run a legitimate, licensed pet shop? Or do you buy and resell animals (flip) out of your home?
Did I see you wanted to flip some "tigers and supers het albino" hatchlings you had acquired only a few days prior to the OP's posting in May?
I see most of your prior posts are inquiries to classifieds sales ads; seeking animals to buy, not sell.
I realize you may feel slighted because you gave Ed a bigger discount than you wanted, but if you truly own/run a shop as you claim, don't you purchase at the lowest (wholesale even) price you can get and resell at the max you can get?
As a businessman, you had the option to accept or decline the deal. You chose to accept it. As a shop owner (as claimed) do you question each prospective buyer as to his/her intentions? Or do you just want to move the stock? Does your decision to sell to me depend upon what I desire to do with the animal after I pay you for it? I think not.
Gotta carefully pick your battles - just make sure you can win 'em. So far, you seem to be a good guy; keep it that way
In reading prior posts by Josh, I see he runs/owns a pet store/shop" :
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1286994#post1286994
5-25-11 - a guy advertises, "Like the title says: I'm looking for 2011 Burm and retic hathlings."
5-26-11 - Josh answers, "I have a few I just picked up some tigers and supers het albino. I acquired a few days ago, if you take 301 north instead of 95 you will pass my house. Let me know I runs small petshop in the area."
and:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1283894#post1283894
5-22-11, Chris Allen advertises his 2011 beardies on the way.
5-23-11, Josh answers, "Hey chris I was just curious if you offer wholesale packages. I only bred a few females and most of the babies have sold. I was really looking to get 10-20 for my shop."
So Josh ... do you own/run a legitimate, licensed pet shop? Or do you buy and resell animals (flip) out of your home?
Did I see you wanted to flip some "tigers and supers het albino" hatchlings you had acquired only a few days prior to the OP's posting in May?
I see most of your prior posts are inquiries to classifieds sales ads; seeking animals to buy, not sell.
I realize you may feel slighted because you gave Ed a bigger discount than you wanted, but if you truly own/run a shop as you claim, don't you purchase at the lowest (wholesale even) price you can get and resell at the max you can get?
As a businessman, you had the option to accept or decline the deal. You chose to accept it. As a shop owner (as claimed) do you question each prospective buyer as to his/her intentions? Or do you just want to move the stock? Does your decision to sell to me depend upon what I desire to do with the animal after I pay you for it? I think not.
Gotta carefully pick your battles - just make sure you can win 'em. So far, you seem to be a good guy; keep it that way
chris1968
New member
No matter what was said in regards to the buyers original plans for them, once they are sold they are his to do with as he wishes. Had the seller done some homework in regards to Mr Clarks past dealings would he still have sold them to him? Almost a $1000.00 on 5 dragons the OP had that didn't fit into a breeding plan (or for whatever reason they were for sale) just doesn't sound like a bad sale to me :shrugs:
ceduke
New member
Wow. He bought the dragons, so they are now his. It's unfortunate that the OP feels he was misled, but I see no evidence of wrongdoing on Ed's part. The whole "intent to sell/breed" thing seems like a pretty flimsy argument.
LauraB
CLOSED ACCOUNT
Ed Clark
New member
Here's a copy and paste of the ad and thread Josh posted that I replied to.
I don't have time to pick it apart right now. if you look at the .2 cawley x hypo tang for $225.00 each on line 8 of his ad. I paid $190.00 each for them, how does that add up to a 50% discount as he has posted?
I don't have time to pick it apart right now. if you look at the .2 cawley x hypo tang for $225.00 each on line 8 of his ad. I paid $190.00 each for them, how does that add up to a 50% discount as he has posted?