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Bad Guy Boamaster (Mark Venhorst)

deborahbroadus said:
:thumbsup::iagree: BUT she does have an "out" (it was a credit card payment) should she choose to take it and it becomes MARK's lesson on selling sick snakes.:shrug01:
Click to expand...

And that is great for her if she can get it back that way, but I think that or PayPal dispute (we all know how that goes) is the only way it should be gotten back.
 
Allison,
Any word on any kind of refund? Is so what is it looking like?

I just hope that Mark feels the need to at the very least to meet you halfway. Can you give me the totals? Not per snake, as to me that is moot (they are deceased) which I do feel horrible for you about. (I haven't lost a snake yet, but was very upset when I lost a redtail catfish, and my husband still reminds me about it because I cried)

Total paid for the three shipped:
Total paid for vet fees:



That is what interests me the most and what I am basing how I feel about doing business with Boamaster. I think he should feel some amount of responsibility in selling you 3 SICK SNAKES. As I have stated in the past this is important to me and I am in the market for new cages and was looking at his site right before this thread came out. V/R Paige
 
I just looked over 21 pages of posts and it's bad for everyone. I think i bought my first cage from Mark in 03 or 04 and having been buying from him ever since. I think what might have happened is what we have seen as happening a lot to herp folks. They start off little and try hard to get big but after a while they get perhaps a little lax a little complacent and mistakes happen. I think Mark probably knew better but made the mistake of doing it anyway. Hopefully he will make amends in some way. All in all he is a good guy that screwed this one up and hopefully he make it right.
 
We paid $730 for the snakes including shipping and we paid $417 for the vet visits. I still haven't talked to Mark yet but I'll post what happens when I find out.
 
apreske said:
We just got done talking to Mark. He is going to send us (2) 2011 DH Sunglows. It's not what we wanted but it's better than nothing.
Click to expand...

"It's not what we wanted" sounds as if you aren't satisfied. You have two choices:

1. Take what he gives you and stop complaining
2. Get your money back though your credit card company

If you take his offer, it's going to be assumed you are SATISFIED with the offer and you will have no more recourse..imo.

Me, I would go the credit card route rather than take somehting that I was not happy with :reddevil: and then use the money on something that I DID WANT. But that's me...you must do what makes YOU satisfied with the transaction.

Good luck.
 
deborahbroadus said:
"It's not what we wanted" sounds as if you aren't satisfied. You have two choices:

1. Take what he gives you and stop complaining
2. Get your money back though your credit card company

If you take his offer, it's going to be assumed you are SATISFIED with the offer and you will have no more recourse..imo.

Me, I would go the credit card route rather than take somehting that I was not happy with :reddevil: and then use the money on something that I DID WANT. But that's me...you must do what makes YOU satisfied with the transaction.
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:iagree: 100%. That's the beauty of using a credit card through paypal. Ultimately you BOTH must come to some sort of amicable solution to this. If his offer is not enough in your mind, then don't take it. If you do accept his offer, then Deborah is right the transaction is complete and you will have no further recourse.

If you are happy with his offer, then the BOI has done its job and good luck with the new snakes when they get there.:thumbsup:
 
You are both right. Since it is partially our fault for buying snakes with health issues the agreement we came to was pretty fair. As far as I'm concerned the issue is resolved.
 
deborahbroadus said:
Me, I would go the credit card route rather than take somehting that I was not happy with :reddevil: and then use the money on something that I DID WANT. But that's me...you must do what makes YOU satisfied with the transaction.
Click to expand...

:iagree:

You're getting two snakes whose value doesn't even cover the vet bills you paid out. That's a really lame deal. I think it speaks volumes about Boamaster.
 
Yup, lame deal.....but, when one knowingly buys snakes with issues, compensation for vet bills isn't a realistic expectation; so I'm not feeling that part at the same volume. In fact - while I have not changed my opinion regarding the fact that those snakes were sold/shipped - I feel that the only one of the group for which the OP has any semblance of claim is the hypo. There was no disclosure of health issues prior to sale for that snake....then again, the buyers didn't notice any symptoms of health issues with her until nearly a month in their possession - and Mark's TOS certainly don't indicate that kind of guarantee.

Now, I'm not stating that the problems developed while in the buyer's care; but I have a problem with the idea that the symptoms were so advanced at the onset, and that long after arrival. There are all sorts of reasons for why they might not have been noticed beforehand, and I'm not going to waste time speculating about them.


It is somewhat difficult to put myself in the buyers' shoes - because I wouldn't have purchased those snakes - but if they are accepting Mark's offer, then what room does anybody have to be critical? I won't deny that I find the suggestion of a credit card dispute offensive under the circumstances. I'm sorry that the buyers lost their money...but, shopping for damaged goods comes with a risk - sometimes they're broken and unsalvageable.
 
hhmoore said:
Yup, lame deal.....but, when one knowingly buys snakes with issues, compensation for vet bills isn't a realistic expectation; so I'm not feeling that part at the same volume. In fact - while I have not changed my opinion regarding the fact that those snakes were sold/shipped - I feel that the only one of the group for which the OP has any semblance of claim is the hypo. There was no disclosure of health issues prior to sale for that snake....then again, the buyers didn't notice any symptoms of health issues with her until nearly a month in their possession - and Mark's TOS certainly don't indicate that kind of guarantee.

Now, I'm not stating that the problems developed while in the buyer's care; but I have a problem with the idea that the symptoms were so advanced at the onset, and that long after arrival. There are all sorts of reasons for why they might not have been noticed beforehand, and I'm not going to waste time speculating about them.


It is somewhat difficult to put myself in the buyers' shoes - because I wouldn't have purchased those snakes - but if they are accepting Mark's offer, then what room does anybody have to be critical? I won't deny that I find the suggestion of a credit card dispute offensive under the circumstances. I'm sorry that the buyers lost their money...but, shopping for damaged goods comes with a risk - sometimes they're broken and unsalvageable.
Click to expand...

:iagree::iagree:
 
hhmoore said:
Yup, lame deal.....but, when one knowingly buys snakes with issues, compensation for vet bills isn't a realistic expectation; so I'm not feeling that part at the same volume. In fact - while I have not changed my opinion regarding the fact that those snakes were sold/shipped - I feel that the only one of the group for which the OP has any semblance of claim is the hypo. There was no disclosure of health issues prior to sale for that snake....then again, the buyers didn't notice any symptoms of health issues with her until nearly a month in their possession - and Mark's TOS certainly don't indicate that kind of guarantee.

Now, I'm not stating that the problems developed while in the buyer's care; but I have a problem with the idea that the symptoms were so advanced at the onset, and that long after arrival. There are all sorts of reasons for why they might not have been noticed beforehand, and I'm not going to waste time speculating about them.


It is somewhat difficult to put myself in the buyers' shoes - because I wouldn't have purchased those snakes - but if they are accepting Mark's offer, then what room does anybody have to be critical? I won't deny that I find the suggestion of a credit card dispute offensive under the circumstances. I'm sorry that the buyers lost their money...but, shopping for damaged goods comes with a risk - sometimes they're broken and unsalvageable.
Click to expand...

Sick animals should NEVER be sold IMO..... NEVER not even knowingly. They are not "goods." I don't even take sick animals to rehome or rescue and most breeders (I hope) certainly wouldn't feel comfortable SELLING one even with giving prior disclosure.

Looks into crystal ball.... I can foresee that a door is going to be opened for scammers...I just see it now:

"Well, I told her that the "Vet" said..."xxx." (and this over a phone so there's no proof that I even asked a Vet anything).

"I told them that the animal wasn't eating, and the Vet suspected that it had a "swollen gland."

Nah, I wouldn't be taking the "lesson." IMO, wanting a deal is not a crime...while it is not the brightest idea to buy sick snakes..it's not a punishable crime and the buyer should not have to be "punished" or taught a lesson.
 
Not a crime to want a deal; but when KNOWINGLY purchasing animals with problems, it's not exactly on the up and up to contest payment or expect compensation for vet bills (Note: I'm not saying that the buyers did these things - my statements on this matter relate to third party comments).
Wanting a deal is one thing, getting that deal by purchasing animals with problems is another. I'm sure you can agree that even an experienced person's assessment of an animal can be wrong., and that the severity of a problem is easily misjudged (until it is BAD)

This isn't about "punishing" the buyers; but let's get realistic. They purchased animals that had problems which were disclosed. They got what they paid for. It's too bad that the jungle died, and it is arguable that the outcome of the others might have been different if they had pursued veterinary care in a timely manner. They took Mark's assessment of the het albino as fact...trusting, yes; smart, no. When one doesn't have a clue about dealing with sick animals, one should either not purchase them, or be prepared to provide medical treatment. One of the buyers stated that they couldn't take the snakes to the vet because they had spent so much money on them - are you seriously going to support that mentality?
The hypo is the only one that was coming in without disclosed problems; and, given the posted statements, I can't help but think the buyers dropped the ball with that one. MAYBE they gave it a decent assessment when it arrived...MAYBE. But, can anybody dispute that - with one snake in the shipment dying within days, and the other one having obvious problems - they probably should have been watching the "healthy" one closely? It was nearly a month before they noticed anything, and what they noticed were advanced symptoms....in other words, they missed weeks of treatment opportunity.
I'm not saying this to be critical of the buyers - they took a bad deal, and lost their money and the snakes. That sucks, there's no two ways about it.

As far as the animals being sold - go back and read every post I've made in this thread. Most of them include the acknowledgement (in some form), that those snakes shouldn't have been sold/shipped. Mark may not have thought things were any more serious than he indicated - *please refer to my statement in this post about inaccurate assessments and misjudged severity* - but he knowingly sold snakes with problems. Yes, he disclosed them....but that doesn't really make it okay. Just because I've been critical of the buyers doesn't mean I am giving the seller a pass selling sick snakes.

I know a lot of people don't agree with my stance on this....and I accept that; but, barring the disclosure of information that hasn't been posted, that stance will not change.
I don't know the buyers or the seller, and they both share in the responsibility for this situation. Now, since the buyers and seller have worked out an arrangement, and the buyers are considering the matter closed - so am I.
unsubscribes
 
No we aren't very experienced with sick snakes because we've never had any before. Yes, I've learned my lesson. Again we did the best we could for these snakes. When the jungle died we did pay more attention to the other snakes and they seemed fine. Since we just got these snakes, the way they were acting seemed normal. When you'be had a snake for awhile it would probably be easier to tell if something is wrong with them. As soon as we realized something was wrong with them and they were sick, we took them to the vet. We did not mistreat these snakes in any way.
 
hhmoore said:
Yup, lame deal.....but, when one knowingly buys snakes with issues, compensation for vet bills isn't a realistic expectation; so I'm not feeling that part at the same volume. In fact - while I have not changed my opinion regarding the fact that those snakes were sold/shipped - I feel that the only one of the group for which the OP has any semblance of claim is the hypo. There was no disclosure of health issues prior to sale for that snake....then again, the buyers didn't notice any symptoms of health issues with her until nearly a month in their possession - and Mark's TOS certainly don't indicate that kind of guarantee.

Now, I'm not stating that the problems developed while in the buyer's care; but I have a problem with the idea that the symptoms were so advanced at the onset, and that long after arrival. There are all sorts of reasons for why they might not have been noticed beforehand, and I'm not going to waste time speculating about them.


It is somewhat difficult to put myself in the buyers' shoes - because I wouldn't have purchased those snakes - but if they are accepting Mark's offer, then what room does anybody have to be critical? I won't deny that I find the suggestion of a credit card dispute offensive under the circumstances. I'm sorry that the buyers lost their money...but, shopping for damaged goods comes with a risk - sometimes they're broken and unsalvageable.
Click to expand...


to point maybe. She was told the one had an anal gland problem. Not a life threating SPETIC abcess. The other was TOLD to be skinny from breeding, once again, NOT a life ending illness. FULL COMPENSATION is in order.
 
Who sells sick snakes to someone without clearly making sure the snakes won't meet their demise? Someone that doesn't give a damn about the well being of an animal. I really wanted to complete my boamaster towers and I know this gets thrown around a lot, but I won't ever purchase another product or animal from what I thought was a trusted, local business man. Mark you really screwed the pooch on this :(
 
bullies&balls said:
to point maybe. She was told the one had an anal gland problem. Not a life threating SPETIC abcess. The other was TOLD to be skinny from breeding, once again, NOT a life ending illness. FULL COMPENSATION is in order.
Click to expand...

This is exactly why this whole situation red flags to me. The fact that the advertised "illness" of these snakes is being so down-played in this thread is flabbergasting. Being thin from breeding is not an illness. Telling someone that a snake has a swollen gland is not the same thing as a life-threatening septic abscess.

Yes, Mark shouldn't have sold sick snakes and the OP shouldn't have been scrounging for a deal and expect A+ animals. But if Mark down-played how sick these snakes were, why shouldn't the OP purchase them? Skinny from breeding? Not a problem, feed the snake. Swollen gland that will reduce on it's own, patience and a vet trip to double check.

It makes me skin crawl that this woman spent $1,147 on these snakes and all she's getting out of it is $300 of 2011 neonates. :ack2: Sure, she can say she settled with the offer because it's better then nothing, but I can still state it disgusts me.
 
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