Bad Guy pat kline (Luxurious leopards)

[JColt]

A bad temper never gets you very far. Another lesson learned! I feel that Pat has wanted to do the right thing from the beginning. If I decide to do Leo's, He will be in my contact list. Glad it's working for OP also and hopefully he learned some needed patience when dealing with sellers.

 

[Alex G]

All I've learned from this thread is that Pat is a top-notch business man and that Jeremy and Brian should be avoided, though for different reasons.

 

[showmeurleo]

I commend you Pat for settling this issue. I am glad that you and my husband could come to an agreement. Alex is right, you seem to be a top notch businessman, but I don't think that Jeremy or Brian should be avoided as Alex stated. Jeremy has a very mean schedule involving his husbandry and makes sure his geckos are at a healthy weight and have no problems, As Im sure Pat does as well. Just bc Jeremy jumped the gun and found it a little suspicious that these geckos from Pat were a little skinnier does not entitle him to a bad guy repoir. Only that he has more to learn when trading with other breeders.

 

[RobNJ]

I commend you Pat for settling this issue. I am glad that you and my husband could come to an agreement. Alex is right, you seem to be a top notch businessman, but I don't think that Jeremy or Brian should be avoided as Alex stated. Jeremy has a very mean schedule involving his husbandry and makes sure his geckos are at a healthy weight and have no problems, As Im sure Pat does as well. Just bc Jeremy jumped the gun and found it a little suspicious that these geckos from Pat were a little skinnier does not entitle him to a bad guy repoir. Only that he has more to learn when trading with other breeders.

Being that Jeremy is only 2 years into this hobby as a breeder, maybe sticking a bad guy label on him is a bit much...but he did handle this situation VERY badly. Not only did he jump the gun posting this thread, but he attacked Pat's husbandry and business ethics publicly here on Fauna, as well as another forum. He also called out Kristi on her shipping practices, albeit unsuccessfully, for no other reason I could see than that this thread may have not been going the way he felt it should have. Pat has maintained professionalism and has stood behind his business and animals, AND he still insisted on finding a resolve that would satisfy Jeremy when he very rightfully could(maybe should) have just wiped the slate clean on this particular transaction.

So, writing Jeremy off as a bad guy may not be called for, but I believe people rightfully should proceed with caution when dealing with him. This may be the first time he's unnecessarily blown his lid for no good reason over a transaction, so only time will tell if this is a one time incident. I truly do hope Jeremy has learned a great lesson and will make every effort to be one of the good guys in this hobby/business. I do believe a good start would be a sincere apology to Pat and Kristi would be a good start.

 

[RobNJ]

I do believe a good start would be a sincere apology to Pat and Kristi would be a good start.

My apologies for the redundant sentence...I'm tired and lost my train of thought.

 

[dinodaddy]

I don't work with leos any more, nor will I ever again. If someone chooses not to do business with me because of what I've said in this thread, that's a pretty sad & quick judgement to make. I just got on fauna, saw this thread at the top of the page, posted my experience (as much as I could), & now it turns into a big pissing match...sad, really...

@Pat: you have 2 people that had a bad experience & you've sold how many hundreds if not thousands of geckos?!? Considering the numbers, I'd say you're doing pretty damn well...

 

[pigslayer]

yeah me and pat are working things out,to everyone that posted thinking you were helping pat out,you werent, all you were doing was keeping this thread alive and at the top of the page which if you would of stopped we would of never heard from brian..thanks again everyone for posting and good luck to you IM OUT

 

[Alex G]

I don't work with leos any more, nor will I ever again. If someone chooses not to do business with me because of what I've said in this thread, that's a pretty sad & quick judgement to make. I just got on fauna, saw this thread at the top of the page, posted my experience (as much as I could), & now it turns into a big pissing match...sad, really...

@Pat: you have 2 people that had a bad experience & you've sold how many hundreds if not thousands of geckos?!? Considering the numbers, I'd say you're doing pretty damn well...

I choose not to do business with you not because of what you said, but because of what Pat said. He has vet proof which he is willing to post that your animals carried crypto and you made no mention of ever having your animals tested and instead took it as an insult and brushed him off... years ago. Who's to say your collection doesn't still have crypto?

 

[KelliH]

I choose not to do business with you not because of what you said, but because of what Pat said. He has vet proof which he is willing to post that your animals carried crypto and you made no mention of ever having your animals tested and instead took it as an insult and brushed him off... years ago. Who's to say your collection doesn't still have crypto?

Hey now, I'm a friend of Pat's and we have done lots of business over the years. He knows his stuff! But I have to say that I got two beautiful female E. m. afghanicus from Brian a couple of years ago and they are still in my collection today and thriving after two breeding seasons. My belief is that most leopard geckos in the U.S. carry a certain strain of crypto that they have become resistant to over the years, and that if we sent samples off from several different "big breeders" they would all come back positive for crypto. But that's a topic for another thread I suppose.

In closing, I know Pat's a good guy, I know Brian is a good guy, and it seems Jeremy is a good guy (though I don't believe I have ever dealt with him). SO that's my 2 cents for ya.

 

[lillith665]

All I can say is that I'm glad this appears to be approaching resolution.

There is just NO WAY IN HELL Pat is a "Bad Guy".

The first time I bought from him, we spent at least 45 minutes to an hour discussing current upkeep, transitioning to new home, feeders, supplements; and just because, an extra discussion on how the eclipse genes actually work, since I was new to them at the time. The eclipse male I got from Pat is an an outstanding specimen of the morph, I've never been disappointed in him. Pat's eclipse was the second gecko I ever ordered online when I was starting out, and he reassured me and answered all of my unending questions thoroughly. He is an extremely reasonable and easy-going guy.

Regarding the geckos here, I have seen skinner leos at the end of season, those girls were bred, but not overbred. I had a male get much skinnier than those two this season, he actually scared the heck out of me and looks better now.

 

[Kristi23]

Being that Jeremy is only 2 years into this hobby as a breeder, maybe sticking a bad guy label on him is a bit much...but he did handle this situation VERY badly. Not only did he jump the gun posting this thread, but he attacked Pat's husbandry and business ethics publicly here on Fauna, as well as another forum. He also called out Kristi on her shipping practices, albeit unsuccessfully, for no other reason I could see than that this thread may have not been going the way he felt it should have. Pat has maintained professionalism and has stood behind his business and animals, AND he still insisted on finding a resolve that would satisfy Jeremy when he very rightfully could(maybe should) have just wiped the slate clean on this particular transaction.

So, writing Jeremy off as a bad guy may not be called for, but I believe people rightfully should proceed with caution when dealing with him. This may be the first time he's unnecessarily blown his lid for no good reason over a transaction, so only time will tell if this is a one time incident. I truly do hope Jeremy has learned a great lesson and will make every effort to be one of the good guys in this hobby/business. I do believe a good start would be a sincere apology to Pat and Kristi would be a good start.

Thank you. I think all it did was show that I label my packages the correct way. I didn't like the comment, but I don't think it did any harm to me or my sales.

 

[dinodaddy]

Thanks for that Kelli! Glad to see the Afghanicus again! Especially "Mrs. Alien head" Also, I traded the remainder of my collection (35 leopard geckos) to another breeder friend & she hasn't had a single problem...
What I believe happened is that somehow, that TPA het Ember must've gotten stressed, & the 1st thing that occurs in a stressed Leo is immune suppression, so that's my 2 cents on what happened with me & Pats deal. If the gecko in question had arrived in bad shape, of course I wouldve done something to fix the situation, but it didn't--it became sick over a few weeks. Like Kelli said--the strain of crypto found in leos is virtually symbiotic at this point...this strain of crypto is also species specific, meaning it only exists/thrives in leopard geckos. if you don't want to keep animals with crypto, then there are other geckos you can keep besides leos.

Thanks again Kelli for being a voice of reason!

 

[pakinjak]

Brian, I think the issue that folks have with your initial post is that you just popped in and what you said made Pat look pretty bad, then you refuse to supply any evidence. I bet if your last post (#132) would have been your first, you wouldn't have received so much negativity. If it was me, I don't think I would have mentioned it all.

 

[snared99]

Thanks for that Kelli! Glad to see the Afghanicus again! Especially "Mrs. Alien head" Also, I traded the remainder of my collection (35 leopard geckos) to another breeder friend & she hasn't had a single problem...
What I believe happened is that somehow, that TPA het Ember must've gotten stressed, & the 1st thing that occurs in a stressed Leo is immune suppression, so that's my 2 cents on what happened with me & Pats deal. If the gecko in question had arrived in bad shape, of course I wouldve done something to fix the situation, but it didn't--it became sick over a few weeks. Like Kelli said--the strain of crypto found in leos is virtually symbiotic at this point...this strain of crypto is also species specific, meaning it only exists/thrives in leopard geckos. if you don't want to keep animals with crypto, then there are other geckos you can keep besides leos.

Thanks again Kelli for being a voice of reason!

I do agree that crypto pops its ugly head when animals are stressed or another issues is hiding. And I do beleive that there is crypto all over the place and the systems of these geckos have now got certain antibodies to at the very least defend themselves until overwhelmed. The incorrect part of this statement is that the species of crypto effects more then just leos, it has been documented in AFT, dragons, and other such popular species.

OK HERE IS MY ONE PLUG...LOL

We are working on a study to help find more out about crypto, and to learn more go to www.killcrypto.com.

Sorry had to............lol

 

[pigslayer]

me and pat have settled this, he sent the granite like promised and i got a pick from a few of his projects,those geckos arrived today looking very good,i apologized to pat several times and pat for sure goes out of his way to keep his customers HAPPY thanks again pat and good luck to you

 

[Kristi23]

me and pat have settled this, he sent the granite like promised and i got a pick from a few of his projects,those geckos arrived today looking very good,i apologized to pat several times and pat for sure goes out of his way to keep his customers HAPPY thanks again pat and good luck to you

I'm really glad you were both able to work something out.