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Info Al Brown/ Liar

Seeing as I've already been around this "business" for 13 yrs, I think my position is fairly cemented, thank you. I've only had one transaction that I was taken on, and that was many years ago. You can disagree however much you want, your deal, and that's fine. Personally, I think someone with as much time and investment as Al has in his collection and hobby would be stupid to rip someone off for $75. Seems like an awful lot of work for not much payoff.

Maybe Al should have signed the piece of paperwork, but it's just not that big of a deal. If Rich had handled it like a reasonable human being, he'd probably already have a signed piece of paper in his hand. He didn't, and I don't think Al owes him a thing at this point.

Chris, whenever you're done
 
"then i would think if he doesnt like the way things are "normally" done with genetics, lineage and the paperwork, he will not do well and thrive in this hobby/business." Wrong! If that's the bar he sets for others and himself, that is exactly the the guy I'd want to buy from!!! I remember when people "normally" had to get there lazy arses off the couch to change the channel on their TVs. Good thing we evolved from when ape-like men "normally" got women by clubbing them and dragging them into their cave. Hypothetically speaking, of course.
 
but its unrealistic to expect anything beyond the parents for genetics and lineage.

and if we really want to proper, then we should get back to the days of not needing paperwork and every little thing written out and back ourselves with our word. it would be nice to remember those days

then id say also, that the op has one future buyer then.
 
Hell, I'm one of those that want lineage info. But I sure ain't going to post a bad guy thread if I don't get it. Find out who the parents came from, and contact them if you want more info then you're getting. Even take it back further by asking where those parents came from, etc. Use your fricken brain for Christ' sake.

What we're trying to tell the OP is that he AIN'T (<---) being very reasonable. And not because we're friends with Al either. I don't even know the guy, never shared an email, phone call or bought anything from him. Just that he hasn't appeared to be a bad guy to deal with according to his history.
 
JCCS said:
Seeing as I've already been around this "business" for 13 yrs, I think my position is fairly cemented, thank you. I've only had one transaction that I was taken on, and that was many years ago. You can disagree however much you want, your deal, and that's fine. Personally, I think someone with as much time and investment as Al has in his collection and hobby would be stupid to rip someone off for $75. Seems like an awful lot of work for not much payoff.

Maybe Al should have signed the piece of paperwork, but it's just not that big of a deal. If Rich had handled it like a reasonable human being, he'd probably already have a signed piece of paper in his hand. He didn't, and I don't think Al owes him a thing at this point.

Chris, whenever you're done
Click to expand...

I disagree with you no more than you disagree with me, yes? Perhaps you think your opinion matters more than mine. I certainly don't doubt that Al is a good guy. That's not the point. If you think that the situation is "not that big of a deal", so be it. If you ever open up a bad guy thread here, I hope it's not as trivial as you percieve this one to be. I'd hate for you, such a stand up and experienced guy, to be on the recieving end of ..."it's not that big of a deal".
 
crotalusadamanteus said:
Hell, I'm one of those that want lineage info. But I sure ain't going to post a bad guy thread if I don't get it. Find out who the parents came from, and contact them if you want more info then you're getting. Even take it back further by asking where those parents came from, etc. Use your fricken brain for Christ' sake.

What we're trying to tell the OP is that he AIN'T (<---) being very reasonable. And not because we're friends with Al either. I don't even know the guy, never shared an email, phone call or bought anything from him. Just that he hasn't appeared to be a bad guy to deal with according to his history.
Click to expand...

I guess it is all a matter of opinion. That's what the BOI is for so it seems to be working.

I would still have to say he AIN'T being very unreasonable. IMO
 
Really??? James?

"Seeing as I've already been around this "business" for 13 yrs, I think my position is fairly cemented, thank you." Obviously you haven't been in business long enough to know that years of business mean nothing in this community, lol. The archives here will teach you that. Silly boy.
 
Although there is some truth to what you say, Chris Johnson being a prime example, he still had a stellar reputation, and did many transactions based on his REPUTATION as a good guy to deal with. He flipped out and pulled an incredible scam. Who knows why. But until he actually did something wrong, his reputation is where it was at. Now that reputation is squat.

Until Al does something shady, i'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
 
maybe the op will show up here again soon and see where he stands at this time.

also, i agree, knowing/having lineage proof is good. other than the op, i ask anybody here, who has asked for paperwork beyond the parents, didnt get it in like 5 minutes, then immediately posted a bad guy thread. all this was totally out of line
 
crotalusadamanteus said:
Hell, I'm one of those that want lineage info. But I sure ain't going to post a bad guy thread if I don't get it. Find out who the parents came from, and contact them if you want more info then you're getting. Even take it back further by asking where those parents came from, etc. Use your fricken brain for Christ' sake.

What we're trying to tell the OP is that he AIN'T (<---) being very reasonable. And not because we're friends with Al either. I don't even know the guy, never shared an email, phone call or bought anything from him. Just that he hasn't appeared to be a bad guy to deal with according to his history.
Click to expand...

The point isn't where, when, how or even WHY he (buyer) posted a BG thread. IMO.....It is did he received what was agreed to.:shrug01:

If someone can produce proof that he did, fine. Otherwise, this is an unsatisfied customer with a specific request that was AGREED to.

Seeing the posts here, to me, it appears that the majority agree that the information SENT (not requested/agreed) does not fill the bill of "Lineage."
 
deborahbroadus said:
He didn't get what he ASKED for. He asked for LINEAGE papers. WE ALL (or most) agree that LINEAGE is more than listing the first set of parents.:shrug01:
Click to expand...

He did get what he asked for. There were no specifics requested other than proof of lineage, which is completely subjective with no formal registry. There is no across the board agreement of what this should be. MOST here disagree with you, so I am not sure how you can say all or most believe the way you do about necessary proof of lineage. He received something viable for this industry, and then complained that it was not enough AND not speedy enough.

Al Brown is no liar. Some people just can not be pleased. His customer was one of those. Some just do not know when to leave well enough alone. This thread should have been dead two pages in. Discussion of proper proof of lineage should be in the discussion forums.
 
Jesse Van Atta said:
He did get what he asked for. There were no specifics requested other than proof of lineage, which is completely subjective with no formal registry. There is no across the board agreement of what this should be. MOST here disagree with you, so I am not sure how you can say all or most believe the way you do about necessary proof of lineage. He received something viable for this industry, and then complained that it was not enough AND not speedy enough.

Al Brown is no liar. Some people just can not be pleased. His customer was one of those. Some just do not know when to leave well enough alone. This thread should have been dead two pages in. Discussion of proper proof of lineage should be in the discussion forums.
Click to expand...

I called no one a liar, I know neither of the people involved. :)

Proof of lineage is what? Pictures that can be traced to 3 generations? Picture of breeder and sire? (imo, pictures of breeder and sire are pictures of parents, not lineage.):shrug01: and MOST here have said the same thing..that "normally" we (breeders) get pictures of parent and sire... establishing that the fact that he's asking for Lineage means that the document that he is requesting is an entirely different document.

I called it as I (myself) see it. The fact that some (more than one) also said something to the effect that "LINEAGE" normally includes more than just the Breeder and Sire is what drew me to my conclusion.
 
if proof of lineage is asked (which is a good thing to request), it is generally accepted that lineage in the case of the snake world, refers to pics/paperwork of the parents, unless specifically agreed by the buyer and seller to go beyond that. i would love to get and give 5 generations of genetics/lineage when i buy and sell an animal, but it is not what is done and what is normal. the snake world (at least at this time) is not that detailed and specific to have that kind of paperwork readily available. and snakes are bought/sold/traded and such so frequently in this hobby, its nearly impossible to provide that crazy of 3rd generations and more of lineage
 
The title of the thread says Al is a liar. He is not. He made a mistake: selling to someone who would smear his name over a petty matter that was NOT worth this thread. A little patience and understanding would have prevented it.
 
Richard...

crotalusadamanteus said:
Although there is some truth to what you say, Chris Johnson being a prime example, he still had a stellar reputation, and did many transactions based on his REPUTATION as a good guy to deal with. He flipped out and pulled an incredible scam. Who knows why. But until he actually did something wrong, his reputation is where it was at. Now that reputation is squat.

Until Al does something shady, i'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
Click to expand...

Please don't mistake me for someone who is bashing, or even doubts, Al's rep. I simply believe that reps start somewhere. Al was a newbie once too. A good rep starts from day one,yes? If the OP seems demanding to you guys, so be it. I like those standards and would do business with him in a second. The smart ones here will thank him one day. While I don't condone the abrasiveness of the opening post, I appreciate the passion.
 
reticguy76 said:
if proof of lineage is asked (which is a good thing to request), it is generally accepted that lineage in the case of the snake world, refers to pics/paperwork of the parents, unless specifically agreed by the buyer and seller to go beyond that. i would love to get and give 5 generations of genetics/lineage when i buy and sell an animal, but it is not what is done and what is normal. the snake world (at least at this time) is not that detailed and specific to have that kind of paperwork readily available. and snakes are bought/sold/traded and such so frequently in this hobby, its nearly impossible to provide that crazy of 3rd generations and more of lineage
Click to expand...

And YET, I have purchased from such a one.:( without requesting how many LINEAGES to go (3 generations at least to my recollection).

I was specifically looking for a lineage from from any Spider genes (at that time).
 
MY goodness!!! I did not type this! (blushes)...


deborahbroadus said:
And YET, I have purchased from such a an excellent breeder and record-keeper without even requesting how many LINEAGES to go he gave me enough to make a decision (3 generations at least to my recollection).

I was specifically looking for a lineage that was free from any Spider genes (at that time).
Click to expand...
 
the petty back and forths (and name-calling) needs to stop now.

I think a forum topic in the discussion forums regarding lineage paperwork would be good but does not belong in this thread.

What matters at this point?
Rich, Al, are you in communication? Is Al sending Rich a revised copy of the genetics paperwork that is signed? What other specific information is Rich looking for? Is Al able to provide it?
 
AbsoluteApril said:
the petty back and forths (and name-calling) needs to stop now.

I think a forum topic in the discussion forums regarding lineage paperwork would be good but does not belong in this thread.

What matters at this point?
Rich, Al, are you in communication? Is Al sending Rich a revised copy of the genetics paperwork that is signed? What other specific information is Rich looking for? Is Al able to provide it?
Click to expand...

Exactly! :iagree: It's a simple fix.

*I am not focusing on the abrasiveness or wrongness of the existence of the thread....as the mods have said time and again...it's pointless as the thread is here to stay, so finding a quick, easy solution seems to be the best option at this point.
 
I can not beleive this thread is still going. This would have been a great situation for Al to go above and beyond industry standards and just give the OP a signed lineage. I dont understand why 12 pages has gone by and this guy doesnt have any papers that are signed. That is a easy fix, sign a paper, spend 44 cents and show great customer service.
Even if having signed paperwork is not a standard it is what the customer wants, now they dont always get exactly what they want, but this was a easy chance to go above and beyond.
 
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